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 Incoming June 13th! New Masterclass Mini-boss and 2 Heroes. 
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Minion
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SDE has a dungeon, a band of heroes that fight through the denizens, loot to be found, end boss to fight. Sounds dungeon crawl to me.

Or must a dungeon crawl to have heroes that evolve from game to game?

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June 12th, 2018, 7:29 am
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Consul
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Foxwhisperer wrote:
SDE has a dungeon, a band of heroes that fight through the denizens, loot to be found, end boss to fight. Sounds dungeon crawl to me.

Or must a dungeon crawl to have heroes that evolve from game to game?

Those things are just the paint :)
In my perception a board game dungeon crawler is more about the gameplay than the setting. I would argue DOOM the board game is more of a dungeon crawler than SDE.
It's not even just about evolving the heroes from game to game. SDE is completely lacking any exploration. The entire map is laid out and active from the start, making it more like one big battlefield.

But yeah... it's just semantics. Do you like the game or not? How you categorize it doesn't really matter.

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June 12th, 2018, 8:56 am
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Minion
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I guess I have not so strict definition when it comes to game types. To me, the exploring part is the treasure chests, i.e. loot. I might take the term dungeon crawl too literally too. That is, you have a party that "crawls" through a dungeon (which might also be a space station or hedge maze or whatever). I do not associate "fog of war" as something that is a must have for a game to be called dungeon crawl (i.e. the party does not see the whole dungeon at the start).

Might as well call SDE a skirmish game then.

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June 12th, 2018, 10:36 am
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Minion
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I think that for me, the "explore" part was probably the most misleading initially. Granted, very little of the setting even looks/feels like an actual dungeon... But man did I want the explore part.

Don't get me wrong -I do enjoy the game, a lot. Arcade mode sits particularly well with me as a fun co-op romp where I can sit down with friends and just plow through waves of enemies.... So long as we have 3-5 hours to do that, depending on the number of friends. But I really like Super Dungeon Explore

I just wish that the "explore" portion was more fleshed out, I feel like they kind of left that on the cutting room floor in design. Really, it's a linear path, you kill the monsters, maybe grab the treasure, and you go to the next tile. It's not exploring if you already know where you're going and where things will be located. You're not "discovering" anything other than mostly minor loot/treasure. A big part of me hopes that this particular gap might be fixed when Legends comes out, either by the rules themselves, or by crafty players. I wouldn't mind some sort of psuedo-random procedure dungeon generation. Down the road with the Legends tiles being unique new shapes, different from the core games, I would love to see some packs with more unique nonstandard tile shapes, maybe coupled with map cards, sort of like you see in Shadows of Brimstone or Dungeon Saga -not everybody would want to use them for random dungeon generation, but a wider variety of nonsquare tiles for Legends play would probably be well-received and a handful of cards to allow random tile selection would only add to the value with a prospective additional play option. Who could really complain about the added option of a dungeon that could literally take the entire group by surprise? (So long as it's done well of course. There are good and bad examples of this method in existing games.)


Seems like a relatively simple option for them, perhaps between when the Core 2.0 box ships and the Legends box ships; more people would have reason to be interested, no plastic would be required, and it could give us something other than ye olde square grids to play test Legends with. I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd bite for a pack of unique tiles for more map options.


June 12th, 2018, 11:51 am
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Minion
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
I think that for me, the "explore" part was probably the most misleading initially. Granted, very little of the setting even looks/feels like an actual dungeon... But man did I want the explore part.

Don't get me wrong -I do enjoy the game, a lot. Arcade mode sits particularly well with me as a fun co-op romp where I can sit down with friends and just plow through waves of enemies.... So long as we have 3-5 hours to do that, depending on the number of friends. But I really like Super Dungeon Explore

I just wish that the "explore" portion was more fleshed out, I feel like they kind of left that on the cutting room floor in design. Really, it's a linear path, you kill the monsters, maybe grab the treasure, and you go to the next tile. It's not exploring if you already know where you're going and where things will be located. You're not "discovering" anything other than mostly minor loot/treasure. A big part of me hopes that this particular gap might be fixed when Legends comes out, either by the rules themselves, or by crafty players. I wouldn't mind some sort of psuedo-random procedure dungeon generation. Down the road with the Legends tiles being unique new shapes, different from the core games, I would love to see some packs with more unique nonstandard tile shapes, maybe coupled with map cards, sort of like you see in Shadows of Brimstone or Dungeon Saga -not everybody would want to use them for random dungeon generation, but a wider variety of nonsquare tiles for Legends play would probably be well-received and a handful of cards to allow random tile selection would only add to the value with a prospective additional play option. Who could really complain about the added option of a dungeon that could literally take the entire group by surprise? (So long as it's done well of course. There are good and bad examples of this method in existing games.)


Seems like a relatively simple option for them, perhaps between when the Core 2.0 box ships and the Legends box ships; more people would have reason to be interested, no plastic would be required, and it could give us something other than ye olde square grids to play test Legends with. I dunno about the rest of you, but I'd bite for a pack of unique tiles for more map options.


I know I'd love some variation of tiles, some of my favourite tiles are the ones that are only square in a physical sense, such as the narrow bridge form the original game. I think I was sold on legends of the corridor tiles alone. :lol:

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June 12th, 2018, 12:31 pm
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Minion
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Now that my Val Candy is in her way to me, I can give in and make another order.

I like the Centaur healer a lot, so ordered that with the Fungomancer (which I like too).

The evil centaur figure is not that good. The pose is bad as it stands on 2 legs. I would have most likely got her too is the pose was more stable (standing on 4 legs).

The undead hero I can take or leave (so didn't take). I have more than enough heroes already, so any new hero will need some gimmic for me to bite. (like walrus riding dwarf or centaur healer... these were great ideas!)

I really wish there would be a dungeon boss and not just mini-bosses. I have lots of mini-bosses already.

I feel the fungomancer could have been a great forest themed dungeon boss to lead the mushrooms and other forest spirits. The figure is great and he would have just needed to made stronger to be a dungeon boss... I feel the Forgotten king or Goro as forest boss are a bit Limited choises...

I don't expect every dungeon boss to be accompanied by unique creeps. The Giri/squirrel creeps would have been enough for the Mushroom boss.

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June 13th, 2018, 8:09 am
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Denizen
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Interesting you think that. I liked the hecate sculpt more than the celestial healer sculpt (but like the healer art more).

a 2 leg pose is consistent with thundervale huntress, but of course this one will need to be glued...but maybe this gives more options for dynamic/custom base poses.

mini-bosses I think has been the focus b/c they work in more modes (dungeon boss are not used in arena) and they may be working up to doing a dungeon boss (gnome tank?).

Something I think they should consider is maybe doing an upgrade pack down the line for dungeon boss versions of mini bosses....or even heroes - since this wouldn't require printing plastic or resin.

And of course, SDE:L will exist for folks to basically 'do' that.

The owlbear will be a new forest boss in the KS delivery, right?

i would personally want to use kinoshrooms as creeps for mushroom boss ^^


June 13th, 2018, 3:00 pm
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Minion
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I didn't put money on the owlbear because, at the time, I thought I could buy it in the local shop (they have SDE stuff in the shelf).

Now... Who knows what will come out and when it will come out.

The masterclass stuff is now the only way to get a new dungeon boss (well, ninjas will fortunatedly have a few dungeon bosses).

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June 13th, 2018, 3:45 pm
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Minion
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I don't like either of the Centaurs, but I might like them more in person. In all honestly I didn't even realise they WHERE Centaur until reading you two call them such. :lol:

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June 13th, 2018, 4:30 pm
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Minion
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The pictures have really bad angle.

If they were pictured from the side, their Centauriness would be more obvious, I think.

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June 14th, 2018, 7:30 am
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Bottle Cap
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Is there a release date for the these models? Or is this Preorder with an undetermined date?

The Ninja items have the release date listed so its curious these don't have one.


June 20th, 2018, 10:19 pm
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Denizen
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They were planned to release 6/13 but I heard rumor they are potentially delayed but should be shipping ‘soon’. Which of course means it happens when they get to it. I placed orders but with preorder items so I’m not expecting anything for me to ship before July.


June 20th, 2018, 10:42 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Ah gotcha, maybe they didn't add a date to the store page due to the delay.

At this point I think I would be more shocked to see the trains running on time than to have something delayed.


June 20th, 2018, 11:44 pm
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Mini-Boss
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they are currently expecting to have them released next week as they are waiting on the cards right now (e-mail from Ninja Scott):

Quote:
"We are waiting to receive inventory for cards and slips for these models.

They remain in a pre-order state until we receive these items, which should be within the week (if we have not already).

I apologize, I cannot be certain at this time.

This order will not be delayed long, that I am certain of."

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June 21st, 2018, 8:23 am
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Minion
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Anyone received status on these yet?


June 29th, 2018, 9:23 pm
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Denizen
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I know of at least one person that has already received the Hecate Vilehorn, but I think that's the only one he ordered.

I have not seen/heard of anyone getting Celestial Healer or Gloomborn yet (or a shipping notification), but I reckon folks may have tied those to NAS preorders.

At the same time, i have not heard/seen folks getting NAS repackaged/upgrade decks yet, either.

He received it 6/18 (orders were opened 6/13), but he was out so he didn't get/open the package until 6/25.


June 29th, 2018, 9:39 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Goblin-King wrote:
Foxwhisperer wrote:
SDE has a dungeon, a band of heroes that fight through the denizens, loot to be found, end boss to fight. Sounds dungeon crawl to me.

Or must a dungeon crawl to have heroes that evolve from game to game?

Those things are just the paint :)
In my perception a board game dungeon crawler is more about the gameplay than the setting. I would argue DOOM the board game is more of a dungeon crawler than SDE.
It's not even just about evolving the heroes from game to game. SDE is completely lacking any exploration. The entire map is laid out and active from the start, making it more like one big battlefield.

But yeah... it's just semantics. Do you like the game or not? How you categorize it doesn't really matter.


This is actually something we discussed in many of my film classes- genres have tropes, but you don't use every trope unless you're doing parody. It is the same with game genres- it isn't reasonable to use every last genre trope, or your game will become super generic.

I've played other dungeon crawlers in which the board is laid out from the start. While the "board discovery" element is a common trope of the dungeon crawler, it doesn't need to be present in order for the game to be a DC.

Likewise, the D&D style skin is a dungeon crawler trope- but that doesn't mean that science fiction crawlers aren't crawlers.

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July 1st, 2018, 3:38 pm
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Mini-Boss
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of course, Forgotten king adding a bit more of the exploration side with the explorer cards but it seams they weren't liked much.

And a lot of dungeon crawls still have an in-game map.. buying a map doesn't make exploring a place less exploring, just a bit.

personally, I would have liked to see the explorer cards slightly improved.. maybe taking a bit of a hint from HQ or DnD.. Maybe i'll mock up something.. redo the explore deck so Heroes have the ability to search an area where they might find a trap, or some monsters they didn't see, or some treasure, etc.. Problem is in a way, how to limit exploring.. once per tile is a bit too limiting for a deck under 20 cards.. But I think taking from what SPM like to do, and I agree with, doing an 'exploration' add-on pack like Pet Parade.. Mm.. I think I'll toy around with this.. a full little add-on pack.. a couple of new rules, some new cards, maybe toy around with a new tile or figures.., without the full blown 'lets just rewrite EVERYTHING' idea..

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July 2nd, 2018, 10:17 am
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Denizen
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The explore cards are replaced by the challenge cards in arcade. I don't think they added enough value to keep in Classic so they were cut, but you can 'get' a plot card via pet parade for classic so /shrug. I know it's something people asked for in FK, but I just hated them and much prefer the challenge/plot setup in arcade 2.0.

Adding the concept of explore I think is maybe better/easier in SDL when you can better pace the game and/or add more flavorful/appropriate things. Like on this tile the chest spawns squirrels when you get adjacent that may not be appropriate elsewhere.


July 2nd, 2018, 5:20 pm
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Minion
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@Akai
Building upon your point: the game is called Super Dungeon Explore.

Let's consider the word "Dungeon" for a moment... How much of the tile sets currently available are actually settings within a dungeon? If you answered 'absolutely zero of them' you are CORRECT! We have caves, and lava plains, and forests, and a haunted manor... no dungeons.

But the much bigger item I feel (and it seems you do too) is the EXPLORE element.
Quote:
explore
verb
travel in or through (an unfamiliar country or area) in order to learn about or familiarize oneself with it.

At the start of the game, the tiles are typically laid out, the enemies/bosses selected, treasure chests placed, everything is in order and known to the players (I play Arcade mode, so perhaps the experience is different for those playing Classic in one or two regards with setup.) There is literally no "exploring" going on here. You know the entire layout, you're not 'familiarizing' yourself with it in any way or for any discernable reason, and you're certainly not learning about the area(s). There is literally, by textbook definition, no amount of exploring involved.

So the game doesn't take place in a dungeon... Ever.
And you don't actually do any exploring... Ever.
So basically it's "Super [Setting] [Verb]" the tabletop game?
We could basically Mad Libs that into a better, potentially more relevant title. What about "Fantabulous Forest Fight"? Or "Ultimate Inferno Blast"? Or maybe "Super Kickstarter Updates" -that last one works just as well as the actual title, because nothing is happening on the Kickstarter project, and there are no actual updates involved. Sorry, it was there and I couldn't resist.

I've considered an implement or two to fix some of this, there are ways it could definitely be done; some potential fixes would apply easier than others. For a while I really considered building something like this into a web app that could be used to remedy that problem, and even speed up the rate of play... but after some of the information I've seen slip out directly from employees I just don't have the stomach to invest my time and ideas into this franchise right now. If this product ever delivered (I've taken 'when' temporarily out of my part of these discussions based on what's been said publicly, in social media, and in private communications), I may consider revisiting some of those things with them in a manner that I would prefer to have direct control over, with no dependency on things like overseas manufacturing, etc. Even then, that's all a huge hypothetical built on hypotheticals. But hey, maybe, if everything goes rosy and the folks at SPM/ND have any interest in allowing (or even teaming up) for something like that to happen.


July 9th, 2018, 4:42 am
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