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 Legends Update Thread 
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Minion
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In the message that John Cadence sent me he said "...even some really terrible life-threatening hospital stays for key staff on the dev team have necessarily held up some areas, that did not need to be aired to the community at large." That, and the fact that A) he had stopped doing unboxings (Which explains why they hired an advertising manager) and B) I don't remember what video it was (I believe it was a Rail Raiders video) and I remeber seeing Deke and he was sweating anf kinda breathing heavy. A friend of mine even said "Is Deke ok? he doesn't look so hot..."

The question that comes to my mind is: how much of this company is on Deke's shoulders?


July 22nd, 2017, 12:11 pm
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Goli wrote:
ManicMan wrote:
A comment made in the update:
Quote:
Unfortunately, I encountered a spot of heart problems beginning in March and over the course of about three months had three emergency room visits and a hospital stay. While I was working during the time, it was limited, and for better or worse, I stubbornly held onto this draft of Legends, because I love it. Normally, we don’t talk too much about our or our employees private lives, since they are just that—private. However, I know that you have been chomping at the bit for Legends content and these issues were a contributing factor to the timeline.


Yes, an update to say a reason for delay might have been nice but private lives are private.


Thanks for that - for some reason can't see the comment to updates on my phone.

Poor Deke, well glad he is feeling a little better and hope he feels his old self again soon :)


On my phone I have to hit the "leave comment" button to see the comments. It's annoying.

Anyway, glad everything is out in the open. It's been an honor working with Deke on Legends. He's a really amazing designer.

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July 22nd, 2017, 4:19 pm
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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Thanks Justin :)

We all know Deke is a legend - I mean after all, none of this would be here without him. Been hooked since first edition and keep coming back for more. That's why I (I would say "we" but someone will jump on it and say "I never was" etc.) got so upset recently with the perceived lack of progress/communication.

It had always been fun - the kickstartera were infused with humour and rampant enthusiasm. I'm glad Deke is on the mend :)

Funny thing is, I know it's his private life, but nobody would have batted an eye if he had said "sorry guys, really very poorly and need to bow out for a while". He is so popular on here that if he had let you guys talk about it sooner he probably would have been buried in get-well cards and chibi art :p

With regard to Neko however, I don't think it's right for us to ask. If you think of him as a friend, then message him to ask. His involvement isn't critical to he kickstsrter so for the rest of us it would only be to satisfy our curiosity. I just wish him well with whatever he does next and want to say "cheers for being our Ninja" :)


July 22nd, 2017, 5:05 pm
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Denizen
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Some one would have moaned.. sad to say but there is always someone that would. Such is life.

but hopefully things will be going much better for everyone now ^_^


July 22nd, 2017, 5:09 pm
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This last update was great. :) Except for hearing that Deke was sick. :/ That makes me so sad to hear... I hope he is getting better and keeps doing so! :) Health and well-being above all. ^^

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July 22nd, 2017, 6:55 pm
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Minion
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The update was welcome and the return to some kind of transparency and involvement from Deke is more than welcome.

I agree that "personal lives are personal", however I hope a lesson was learned here. A lot of damage would have been easily avoided by simply being upfront and honest from the start. No one needed to know whether it was heart problems, nervous breakdown, relative's needing assistance, etc.

But having the main and key individual on the project being incapacitated and unable to properly fulfill his tasks for weeks and months is kind of an important thing to address rather than attempt to sweep under the rug.

I also recognizes that SDE is Deke's baby and creative vision, and understand he wasn't willing or ready to let it go and be taken over.

I hope however this has sparked some serious discussions about contingency plans and the future of SDE/SPM.


July 22nd, 2017, 9:45 pm
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Denizen
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I have been waiting for this update, and I could NOT be happier! Legends conteeeent!
Keep on keepin' on Deke, both for getting better and for the Legends content


July 24th, 2017, 1:57 pm
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I haven't posted in a long time as interest has waned. I have not been enjoying forgotten king ruleset compared to how fast paced and fun the original sde was. I've just downloaded the fan made lootimeter mode 2.0 to try out with some friends after seeing kickstarter update #97 with core rules and players handbook for legends! Very excited for legends release now and even few like finishing some models!

Hope deke makes a quick recovery, hate to hear he wasn't doing well.


July 24th, 2017, 6:09 pm
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Denizen
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As a late backer I can't comment on the Kickstarter.

Deke, thank you for all your hard work, I am glad you are on the mend and sorry you had such a rough stretch! Good Luck!

-Lou


July 25th, 2017, 6:01 pm
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I'm sorry to hear that you've had medical troubles over the last few months Deke, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Conversely, now that we're getting to see some of the fruits of your long labor with everything in the Legends Kickstarter, I must say that I'm starting to feel happier with my last minute decision to do a late pledge again (though I wish I could comment on the Kickstarter page itself). I will look forward to future updates, and I hope that the final stages of development and fulfillment begin to move forward at a faster pace (as usually happens with something of this nature).

I'm confident that we're going to get something with truly fantastic miniatures, improved rules for smooth gameplay, and a campaign mode that we can customize and really sink our teeth into.

Thank you for all your hard work.


July 29th, 2017, 7:24 am
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Denizen
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lets see.. this weeks Update has kinda been not much annoying but there are reasons. As stated in the update, they are going into final stages of clean up and layout, so various bits are being worked on so unable to release updates on the reasons they are dealing with. Last week stated they are partly awaiting on the factory so there is reasons for delays on the model front. we have pretty much seen all renders for the models and some test Proofs have been shown too. So right now.. there doesn't seam to be a HUGE lot that can be shown right now. There still could be a few other things shown or told about but oh well.. but nevermind that now..

There seams to be... I think the American term is 'Bitching and Whining' about the Arcade logo.. Am I a big fan of the new Super Dungeon Logo? no.. do I think there are a number of Key design faults? yes.. from a designer point of view, I would say some readability lost over style, also it moves away from Classic Video Game style, but it does look like what it is.. very American take on Japanese game logos.. But that is the new logo so stop whining and accept it.. there is no way anything will please everyone. and if you try, you lose. Game over!

For the Arcade logo.. I like it. apart from the odd bit with the gradients which I can overlook, it features bright primary covers which are great for an arcade game logo, makes them stand out and be noticed, the Letters are given a pixel-like block effect to give them some style which keeping them readable, the faux 3D effect is also typical of the 80s.. really, that 'arcade' part of the logo stands out as the late 80s, after the computer game market almost died during the huge crash of 83-84 (which.. oddly, the causes for it are being repeated for the last 15 or so years now, but despite the dropping market, not as big a drop as in the past and no crash.. and no-one thinking the you can't go forward without looking back.. oh well)..

anyway.. the background to the Arcade part, appears to be pixel like Dungeon tiles, using duller colours so it doesn't spoil the readability of the logo, but bright enough to be noticed and partly appearing to merge with the Super Dungeon logo. Also, as seen for the Arcade cover, stands out enough for the normal art colours.

So I have no problem with it.. No real problem with people that do but, I've given my reasons for liking, if you dislike, reasons would be helpful ^_^ so well Done Mr Dan Dussault.

Now if people would forgive me.. It's now the 90s.. time for Klax!


July 29th, 2017, 10:56 am
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Denizen
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Oh, I very much doubt it will change, cause all it would do is increase costs, but does anyone know if the Pet cards will be increasing side from the mini-card size? I know the 'Wonder' cards will be dropped so i'm not that worried about them, but the normal cards..


July 30th, 2017, 2:53 pm
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ManicMan wrote:

There seams to be... I think the American term is 'Bitching and Whining' about the Arcade logo.. Am I a big fan of the new Super Dungeon Logo? no.. do I think there are a number of Key design faults? yes.. from a designer point of view, I would say some readability lost over style, also it moves away from Classic Video Game style, but it does look like what it is.. very American take on Japanese game logos.. But that is the new logo so stop whining and accept it.. there is no way anything will please everyone. and if you try, you lose. Game over!

For the Arcade logo.. I like it. apart from the odd bit with the gradients which I can overlook, it features bright primary covers which are great for an arcade game logo, makes them stand out and be noticed, the Letters are given a pixel-like block effect to give them some style which keeping them readable, the faux 3D effect is also typical of the 80s.. really, that 'arcade' part of the logo stands out as the late 80s, after the computer game market almost died during the huge crash of 83-84 (which.. oddly, the causes for it are being repeated for the last 15 or so years now, but despite the dropping market, not as big a drop as in the past and no crash.. and no-one thinking the you can't go forward without looking back.. oh well)..

anyway.. the background to the Arcade part, appears to be pixel like Dungeon tiles, using duller colours so it doesn't spoil the readability of the logo, but bright enough to be noticed and partly appearing to merge with the Super Dungeon logo. Also, as seen for the Arcade cover, stands out enough for the normal art colours.

So I have no problem with it.. No real problem with people that do but, I've given my reasons for liking, if you dislike, reasons would be helpful ^_^ so well Done Mr Dan Dussault.

Now if people would forgive me.. It's now the 90s.. time for Klax!


I'm inclined to agree on the "Arcade" bit, that looks fantastically appropriate. I still think the core "Super Dungeon" logo revision looks just appallingly awful. I mean it looks like someone paid a junior high student to do it in photoshop... But get, some junior high schools teach that as a course now, so the core "Super Dungeon" lettering might have turned out better if they actually did hire an adolescent junior high student to create it.

My disdain for the updated logo has to do with readability and with cohesion of styles. The readability was just completely sacrificed in order to force the lettering into this new style -that, in itself is a big 'Design 101' no-no. If you have to sacrifice readability to make a font/style work for your logo, then you shouldn't be doing that font/style, end of story. But... Somebody REALLY wanted that look and style to the lettering. So surely, it must have got the content really well, right? ...right? ...Bueller?

The lettering for "Super Dungeon" conjures up the aesthetics of 80's/90's metal bands. It would look perfectly at place next to some merch for Metallica or Dethklok (because DETHKLOK, obviously, hahaha). So they wanted to evoke an era of gaming from the past, and they used lettering from that period in time to do so...? The problem is that evoking an era in time is simply not the same as evoking a specific genre/series/niche from that time. Super Dungeon is intended to evoke a lot of anime and jrpg roots from (mostly) the 90's. What about 90's anime or jrpg's has ANYTHING to do with metal culture? I mean, it's a completely separate thing, with no other connection to the product. They might as well have pulled out any other pop culture from the era, maybe they could have added a chibi version of Oprah Winfrey to the title somewhere? I'm sure her face could be centered into one of the 'o' letters in there. Or why not put the old Stussy artwork in there, maybe some ICP references? The lettering style has nothing to do with anything in this game, at all. They chose to go from a perfectly satisfying logo style that fit the product, over to a new logo that forced them to sacrifice readability in the name of a style that doesn't make sense of any kind for the product.

I understand that they aren't going to change it. They made their decision long ago, but I cannot imagine how or why they did. At this point it's already on a wave of products on store shelves, and it would be super confusing to revert back, and you wouldn't want a product line to be confusing to potential newcomers who might not know which products will be compatible with what... I mean that would be like having two or three waves of product that have no clearly defined terminology to reflect whether they are a 1.0 or a 2.0 product, or subsequently re-re-doing your ruleset and declaring that what was once 2.0 is now more of a 1.5. I mean, that could confuse and deter potential new customers, right? Oops.

From the time I saw the new core logo, the best thing I could do was just not think about it, mentally block it, pretend it's still there would logo on new products that I'll enjoy. I do enjoy the product, and I want more of it. I just wish that new logo wasn't present to put off more new players from checking out a series that I like.


July 31st, 2017, 9:21 am
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Denizen
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yep, and the end of the day, the logo isn't an element of the game so nothing really to interfere much.

And we are lucky.. It's not made by a under 5 year old so no using Arabic numbers as letters.


July 31st, 2017, 9:37 am
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ManicMan wrote:
yep, and the end of the day, the logo isn't an element of the game so nothing really to interfere much.

And we are lucky.. It's not made by a under 5 year old so no using Arabic numbers as letters.


Careful there might give someone a new idea... You're playing with fire lol.


August 1st, 2017, 9:10 am
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Denizen
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I probably doesn't mean anything. in fact, I'm mostly sure it doesn't.. but since people keep commenting about this (mostly via the KS site) and it's legends update related..

The latest Ninja Division release newsletter I'm sure most of you get.. has Rail Raiders infinite and the Candy figure available and state:
"Pre-orders will begin shipping after Kickstarter has been fulfilled".
As Rail Raiders Infinite is one of the ones people keep saying is in some way tied into the Super Dungeon releases (be it as production time or anything) then it might tie in with the:
"I'm waiting to see the first real mold pops of our Wave 1 plastics very soon"
which basically means seeing figures from the final molds, not test molds. either way, things are going nicely right now


August 2nd, 2017, 3:27 pm
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I'm a little torn on that one.

Rail Riders is almost assuredly going to be shipped the same way that just about every other Kickstarter game is -thst is to say that it's going to be loaded up on to cargo containers, and then carried overseas on a boat trip that takes between a few weeks to a month. From there, it will need to clear customs before it can move to actual distribution for backers.

So from the time it hits a container, till the company has one in their hands, that would basically be a month (give or take a bit). That is a VERY long time to wait for proofs, especially when you consider that proofs often undergo several rounds of feedback before being accepted -if these are the first or second proofs, there would be a good chance that they aren't even up to acceptable par for showing us. The biggest hold up from the proofs stage are inspections and potential feedback before either approving or getting the manufacturer to make another round. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to delay the time it takes to receive those for inspection -its basically shooting your own timeline in the foot with no benefit.

Anything is possible, but that seems unlikely. Ninja Division and Soda Pop Miniatures both seem a lot smarter than that.

What does seem likely, would be that they may be waiting for an entire series of proofs (multiple castings/models) to be completed, in order to have them express-shipped in one package. Express shipping from China isn't super cheap, but it's hardly cost prohibitive unless you're either shipping tons of individual tiny packages or a lot of really heavy stuff. For perspective, I've ordered many "Lego Compatible" brick sets, usually a few thousand pieces in one order, from China. Express shipping for that would be around $40-60, depending on the sender and their handling fees. If you can express ship a few thousand plastic bricks for $60 or less, I find it hard to imagine that they would decide to wait the extra time for something as important as proofs to arrive via cargo ship.


August 2nd, 2017, 10:49 pm
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Denizen
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Does China to the US really take that long and only via boat? might expand why I get stuff from the US, there is a big delay, compared to stuff from China to the UK. Via Plane (you can get huge shipments on a plane to the UK), normally takes a couple of days.. without paying huge money for shipping etc, normally when I get stuff from china to the UK, it's something like a couple of days to go from location to airport, couple of days to go from airport china to London (mostly heathrow).. then a week to clear customs and arrive at me.. so total is normally.. 2 weeks, maybe 2 and a half..

but China to the US.. takes a month more for that process? interesting... I do notice It takes much longer to get stuff from the US to the UK then from China to the UK.. I take it we have a much better trade deal and shipping lanes with China then the US.. not surprising..

Oh and 'real mold pops' as it was put aren't normally proofs.. they have been done before.. this are more final-final check stuff.. this is only a complete guess really but... I would say the proofing is for what he said it was "box copy, legal, checking registration, UPC codes etc" and that the models are probably in manufacturing..


August 3rd, 2017, 6:55 am
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Minion
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ManicMan wrote:

Oh and 'real mold pops' as it was put aren't normally proofs.. they have been done before.. this are more final-final check stuff.. this is only a complete guess really but... I would say the proofing is for what he said it was "box copy, legal, checking registration, UPC codes etc" and that the models are probably in manufacturing..


That is what you'd expect and hope for, yeah.

But with all the BS we've been served by SPM over the last year I wouldn't hold my breath.

Figure if they had received any kind of manufacture proof before they'd have shared that info and images instead of all the non-updates they kept pushing to stall that kept pissing people more and more.


August 3rd, 2017, 11:20 pm
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Denizen
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I wouldn't say BS cause I haven't really seen any out and out lies.. I've seen believed deadlines which have been passed, and the LACK of giving information, but not really any real lies like that.. there might have been some though, and I missed them..

but lets see..
9th April - " All of Wave 1 is in pre-production right now. We need to approve final miniatures from test molds, and the digital and physical proofs on all submitted designs."

17th June - "Wave 1, completely laid out, all elements done, received at factory, have one round of proofs to finalize for card, packaging, and books, and we are ready to hit the "go" button. Without actually having finished goods rolling off a line, I can't move the bar more."

really, even with the KS nature, they are under no obligation to show model proofs.. it would be nice in a way (though i'm sure people would moan at some of the rough edges etc) but don't have to... besides, it's bad luck to show unfinished art.

So, no offense but while you might EXPECT them to show something, that fact they haven't doesn't mean to say it hasn't been done or that they are lying when they say it has..


August 4th, 2017, 5:56 am
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