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 minions 2.0 
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: June 24th, 2014, 9:23 pm
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so looking at the playtest rules for the 35 point cadres i have a few questions

1) swordsworn have Cord Def but with the new rules minions dont have skills how exactly does this work? are they a base of 0 and get bumped to 1?

2) the broadside is a minion with shield gen. since minions are are idle until the enter the slot shield gen working when the unit is ready means you never get the bonus from it as its idle until its turn so why does it have shield gen?


March 7th, 2017, 4:59 am
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I ran into the opposite facing Hisami earlier, since she is idle just about all the time being a minion she gets her high armour ability.

Figure our roles need to be reversed?


March 7th, 2017, 1:14 pm
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Focslain wrote:
I ran into the opposite facing Hisami earlier, since she is idle just about all the time being a minion she gets her high armour ability.

Figure our roles need to be reversed?


where did you get 2.0 rules for hisami? i could only find the ones on the KS or are you using 1.5? and im more worried about an effect that can only be used if the model decides to throw itself off a cliff than one that cant be turned off with how lethal the games starting to look high armor is a nice thing for some of the doctrine to be able to dump onto since they have low base armor to begin with.


March 7th, 2017, 2:30 pm
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rizz -scum- rack wrote:
Focslain wrote:
I ran into the opposite facing Hisami earlier, since she is idle just about all the time being a minion she gets her high armour ability.

Figure our roles need to be reversed?


where did you get 2.0 rules for hisami? i could only find the ones on the KS or are you using 1.5? and im more worried about an effect that can only be used if the model decides to throw itself off a cliff than one that cant be turned off with how lethal the games starting to look high armor is a nice thing for some of the doctrine to be able to dump onto since they have low base armor to begin with.


I don't have the official 2.0 rules, we used the 1.0 version but counted her as a minion as stated in the pledge manager for her upcoming model. Her Anti-social ability functions while idle which is just about all the time.

Now that they released test cards and lists for the main six factions I have no issue testing using those set (I have most of the units or at least something that can stand in).

Next test I do will use those groups for ease.

On the note of doctrine, the Noviates defensive has a regeneration press. If not hit hard enough your going to end up with a hydra situation fast.


March 7th, 2017, 4:15 pm
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based on the new values things are gonna be hitting them pretty hard. Along the same line i find it odd they have recover 4 as having 3 health means they can only ever recover 2 of it without the press unless we see some way for them to get regen without the press.


what would be a good swap to keep the feel for the broadside and the swordsworn so they fit in the new rules? force field and im not even sure how to fix cord def unless you change the entire rule.


March 7th, 2017, 4:36 pm
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rizz -scum- rack wrote:
based on the new values things are gonna be hitting them pretty hard. Along the same line i find it odd they have recover 4 as having 3 health means they can only ever recover 2 of it without the press unless we see some way for them to get regen without the press.


what would be a good swap to keep the feel for the broadside and the swordsworn so they fit in the new rules? force field and im not even sure how to fix cord def unless you change the entire rule.


Swordsworn are in the new test cadre, including their new rules. For coordinated defense, I'd say that gives them the skill. So thier defense goes from 0 to 1

Not sure on broadside, but switching sheild generator for force feild isn't a bad idea.


Last edited by Focslain on March 7th, 2017, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



March 7th, 2017, 5:11 pm
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-redacted- for edit


id hope thats how it works but talks about minions not drawing cards in the book


March 7th, 2017, 5:16 pm
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rizz -scum- rack wrote:
i know swordsworn are... thats the point of the first post in the new rules they have Cord Def and according to the new rules they cannot draw cards as minions so plus 1 to defense values doesnt help them and heros cant gain from it as if they are in base contact with a minion to get the bonus you have to shoot and kill the minions before you can hurt the hero.


Was editing my post while you posted. What page does it say that minions can't draw for defense (other then the fact that they have no defense to start)

Final edit:

So hope this isn't against the forum rules...

So from pg 30 of the beta pdf:

Quote:
If a unit does not have a value for a specific type of attack or defense, it cannot draw any cards and may onlyuse esper cards from the player's hand.


However the line before is this:
Quote:
If either unit is subject to an effect that increases or reduces thier skill, apply all of the relevant effects before drawing


So minions have no defense/attack skill naturally. However boosters (ammo dump and psi amplifier) and in the swordsworn case, abilities, grant minion skills since they add to them.


Last edited by Focslain on March 7th, 2017, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



March 7th, 2017, 5:21 pm
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3- draw additional cards at the bottom of combat actions "if a unit does not have a value for a specific type of attack or defense, it cannot draw any cards and may only use esper cards int he players hand." based on how that sounds the dont have a 0 so much as just no stats at all and nothing to increase.


March 7th, 2017, 5:26 pm
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rizz -scum- rack wrote:
3- draw additional cards at the bottom of combat actions "if a unit does not have a value for a specific type of attack or defense, it cannot draw any cards and may only use esper cards int he players hand." based on how that sounds the dont have a 0 so much as just no stats at all and nothing to increase.


That might just be a lazy printing issue. Why waste the time placing '0' when you can just leave it blank. In this case they might have to print that to avoid the confusion we are discussing.


March 7th, 2017, 5:34 pm
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looks like Obsidian Crane is already asking the question about minion and boosts

Also saw that broadside is in the test cadre... yeah sheild generator makes no sense on a minion.


March 7th, 2017, 5:43 pm
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I think the various things that add to stats have no effect on minions. there's a big different between 0 + bonus and potatoes + bonus. What I mean is that 0 on a stat means it's a thing, and exists. Minions don't even have a zero. They have nothing, it's not there. it's not zero, it's nothing. You can add to zero, you can't add to nothing.

As for coordinated defense. I think that the skill should just be changed so that any unit in contact with 2+ coordinated defense models gets the benefit. There are probably several generic abilities that could/should be revised for this new edition, I think. I was wondering about things like shield generator and whatnot myself (I hadn't read all the premade team PDFs yet). Those are all things that need to be heavily (re)considered with the new minion mechanic. I could see some being left alone. Like deciding a minion with a force field is a good thing. Though, they could just give it 2 more armor and make it less complicated. Overall, I would hate to see simple things like literally useless instances of shield generator fall through the cracks because it would have to be a huge crack for an obvious problem like that.


March 7th, 2017, 7:32 pm
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None of the test cadres have a support ability or effect that increases skill, barring the ones in question.

It is possible that some of the abilities on the minions are hold overs (ie a copy/paste) of thier original until they figure out something new to take it's place.


March 7th, 2017, 7:44 pm
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For consideration of increases stats that aren't printed on cards: All units except cyphers have armor printed as a numeric value, even if 0. If you use the logic that a stat needs a value to increase, armor would be the case that I would use as a test for minion skills, and I would then say that minion skills are null, not 0.

Has anyone played games and tested both possibilities? Drawing a single card isn't a large benefit when balanced against the fact that you need to recruit a boost and be within its AoE; but its still a benefit, so we should test and compare the impact of both possibilities.


March 8th, 2017, 3:34 am
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