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 Robotech Tactics Kickstarter discussion 
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Ninja Corps
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GrauGeist wrote:
IMO, Apocalypse is an excellent example of lots of bad stats, or small amazing stats. :lol:


Maybe Apocalypse looks different where you are - around here noone bother to bring anything that's not super heavy... (Well or at least Leman Russ level)

GrauGeist wrote:
I don't use Lascannon, waste of points. I take Missile Launchers, and lots of them.


That's the point I was making...

GrauGeist wrote:
I back my Guardsmen with Plasma Guns and Demolisher Cannons - the most powerful man-portable and vehicle-mounted weapons in the regular game. There is almost no problem in a regular game of 40k that a squadron of Leman Russ Demolishers doesn't do a pretty fair job of solving when backed by massed Plasma gunners.


Try to mathhammer their chances against two flying Hive Tyrants with a pair of TL Devourers each...


August 6th, 2014, 9:56 pm
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Consul
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In 7E, if I have the points, should be able to field a Titan in an "Unbound" force. :twisted:

A Missile Launcher has good stats, is far less common than Lasgun.

If the meta moves that direction, I'd field Vendetta Gunships. Or Hydra - more models I own.

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August 7th, 2014, 12:45 am
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Ninja Corps
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Well, got to pass, I have not looked at 7th Ed yet...


August 7th, 2014, 12:56 am
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To be honest, I'm not that excited over where 40k has gone as of 5E / 6E into 7E. With the addition of so many more play options, there are now far too many rules and special abilites for a casual player to stay on top of. It's more bloated than 2E, becoming more about silliness than playability.

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August 7th, 2014, 2:58 am
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well looks like the product will not be for sale at GC, also what does it say about this game when people are talking about Warhammer 40K in here instead of Robotech ?


August 7th, 2014, 10:57 pm
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Ninja Corps
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Not much to talk about Robotech tactics - it hasn't arrived on my gaming table yet ;)


August 8th, 2014, 1:22 am
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Consul
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Robotech is stuck in US Customs, so it'll be another 2-3 weeks before Palladium starts shipping. I probably won't have toys in hand for at least a month. Even then, I only backed for the models, not the RIFTS-based "game"- if it's anything like the preview, it'll be all but unplayable as a mass battle game.

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August 8th, 2014, 6:28 am
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Like I said I got it for the Unseen Battletech mech.


August 8th, 2014, 1:23 pm
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Ninja Corps
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Fun fact, 4 years ago I came across a 1st edition Battletech Box including 10 or 12 mechs in a store in Munich - I so should have bought that...


August 8th, 2014, 1:52 pm
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Minion
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Scarapis wrote:
Like I said I got it for the Unseen Battletech mech.


You don't actually need Miniatures to play battletech anyways its all charts and notebooks

I think that is the reason Battletech players put up with playing a miniatures game with such terrible miniatures


August 8th, 2014, 2:52 pm
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Well just visited the Palladium forums after reading some posts in the kickstarter forum and have to say, wow, I have heard of some heavy handed moderation but if half of what is saying is true, I wonder if Palladium knows their moderation team specifically one moderator is doing more damage to Palladiums IP then anything Palladium has done ?


August 9th, 2014, 2:42 am
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Yeah he comes off pretty prideful and reactionary. That and its always somebody's fault, even with things that could easily be left at "yeah unfortunately that is how things are"

The one where he explained that they were running the miniatures game in RPG area because of the cost and ends it with "And its all GenCon's fault" was way over the line.

He could have just said "Space is expensive and we couldn't afford space in both areas", but no

He's just giving fuel to the people that want things to complain about

After looking into all the complaining since i never cared about palladium before, just wanted the Robotech minis game, I realize it is just a small company that is way out of their element being to proud to admit it.


August 9th, 2014, 3:22 am
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Well just got my models back from a friend of mine who I had assemble and paint them for me, let him keep the Zent's which don't think he was thrilled about, evidently he got a bunch of it and a bunch of it from his friends and has it sitting in a closet or such, but I managed to get him to do mine (cost me a pretty penny in some items) since I wanted nothing to do with assembling them when I got my stuff, seriously did the Ninja's do these pita of minis in the game? but anyway got me a bunch of unseen mecha for my pre-clan BT games now.


March 12th, 2015, 4:03 am
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GrauGeist wrote:
Robotech is stuck in US Customs, so it'll be another 2-3 weeks before Palladium starts shipping. I probably won't have toys in hand for at least a month. Even then, I only backed for the models, not the RIFTS-based "game"- if it's anything like the preview, it'll be all but unplayable as a mass battle game.


FWIW, I finished building my share of the models this evening. Not a bad-looking lot.

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March 16th, 2015, 3:59 am
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I'm reading the latest Robotech Tactics Update(s), and it appears that much of the Robotech delays and screwups are due to Ninja Division, not Palladium Books...

Quote:
As it turned out, none of us at Palladium Books nor Ninja Division were truly prepared for EVERYTHING to come.

Here’s just one simple example. The first container of RRT games is about to ship from China in July of 2014. As in, it will be ready to ship in 10 days. We are happy as can be. We assumed Ninja Division would handle the importing as Palladium has NO experience in this whatsoever and had informed them of this. Or if not ND, the Manufacturing Broker that Ninja Division brought in on this project. So we were left dazed and scrambling, again, when the Ninjas told us, “Sorry, you need to deal with this directly and on your own. We can’t help you, because we don’t know this stuff either and you need to take care of all the paperwork, we can’t do it for you.” They couldn’t recommend a broker, either; presumably because this end of the business was new to them too. When we asked ND if the Manufacturing Broker could handle it for us, they said, no. We later learned that the company could have done it, but apparently ND didn’t know that at the time.


Quote:
That’s where Ninja Division came in. We spoke with a number of people as we moved forward to make Robotech® game pieces, but after speaking with John Cadice of Soda Pop Miniatures (and soon after, Kai, David and other members of the team that would become Ninja Division), we felt we had found the right group of people to make this game happen. They were supremely confident, smart, and self-professed Robotech® fans eager to embrace a project like this. The quality of the products they had produced themselves and in concert with other game publishers was excellent. Super Dungeon Explore was a hot new release at the time, Helldorado was another, and Relic Knights was being developed and looked fabulous. Both Carmen Bellaire and Tom Roache were ecstatic over the choice to work with these guys to make Robotech® RPG Tactics™. Everyone we spoke to, including distributors and industry people, agreed that Soda Pop Miniatures and Cipher Studios were the right choice to team up with. These guys certainly had the anime style down. Everyone seemed to have positive feedback about these “impressive new guys.” We liked them and liked what they had to say. They explained they had the knowledge, the experience and were ready to start work immediately. We just had to trust them. We did, so we took the plunge.

It was on!

Ninja Division got to work. Palladium Books ponied up $40,000 to get the ball rolling. It was a risk, because if the Kickstarter flopped, we’d be screwed. ND got the 3D sculptors sculpting, the game design and writing into development, key art and packaging into production, and other pre-production elements rockin’ and rollin’. Lacking experience with 3D sculpting and manufacturing in China, Palladium felt it wise to leave most of the technical decisions up to Ninja Division, with Palladium approving sculpts, artwork, packaging, etc., before it would be sent to Harmony Gold for final approval. The game rules we developed together, as we had very strong ideas about what the game needed to be, and what Robotech® fans wanted.
The Kickstarter

The guys at Ninja Division had the technical knowhow, the connections and the people to help Palladium make this product, now all we needed was the money to do it. And that was a problem.

When we started to get serious about Robotech® RPG Tactics™, talks naturally segued into how do we afford all this? Ninja Division estimated the cost to be between $550,000 and $900,000 to make the game and expansion packs we all wanted to see made. And not just enough to provide to the Kickstarter backers, but enough to get the game into the retail market. That was an impossible amount of money for Palladium. “Not if you launch it via Kickstarter.” That was what everybody was telling us, the Ninjas included. All of them were right.

It was my friend Jolly Blackburn, creator of Knights of the Dinner Table, who first told me about Kickstarter and that I should look into it. A couple weeks later, out of the blue, Carmen Bellaire began ranting about the value of Kickstarter and that it was something Palladium needed to look into. This was before Robotech® RPG Tactics™ was even an idea.

Carmen was the first to restart the Kickstarter conversation, saying we should fund the Robotech® RPG Tactics™ project via Kickstarter. That it would be easy. Tom Roache concurred. We were hesitant. It sounded great, but we knew it had to be a lot more demanding and difficult than it sounded. And it had to be done right to be successful.

Doing a Kickstarter and needing that amount of money was scary. Exciting, but scary. And Palladium had NO experience in doing one or knowing how to handle it.

Enter Ninja Division. At the time, Soda Pop Miniatures and Cipher Studios had done something like eight Kickstarters between them, and had the experience we lacked in all areas. The Ninjas said they could handle the Kickstarter 100%, from start to finish. From the graphics, writing and the video presentation, to the stretch goals and Q&A. This was a huge relief, as we knew nothing about doing a Kickstarter. We let the Ninjas run with it, sat back and watched in awe. Of course, we made some suggestions and did some editing, but this was Ninja Division’s show. We trusted their expertise and what needed to be done. And look as the result, wow. The Kickstarter was a tremendous success and there was much rejoicing.

But nothing is easy. I had big concerns about costs all around. I badly wanted to include additional shipping fees in the Kickstarter. Something that almost everyone does today, but back then, we were strongly advised not to. We were told that nobody (back then) charged shipping and that if we charged a shipping fee in addition to the backer pledge levels, it would severely reduce the chances of a successful Kickstarter. This was the subject of many discussions. I finally acquiesced, but it would be something that would haunt us later, as shipping worldwide would be in the neighborhood of $150,000 all by itself. Just for Wave One! Yeah, shipping is brutal, especially with the advent of “dimensional weight” – the larger the package, regardless of weight, the more it costs. The Ninjas said they factored shipping into the pledge levels, but final costs would be greater than their estimates across the board.

Remember that runaway train I spoke of early? When the Kickstarter ended, that train took off with us on it, and it immediately started to rocket out of control.

First, not knowing anything about Kickstarters, we did not realize the real job of managing a Kickstarter begins AFTER the Kickstarter is funded. We thought that when Ninja Division said it would handle the Kickstarter from start to finish, that they would be handling everything. Again, we didn’t know what “everything” entailed.

As it turned out, they meant “finish” as a successful funding. Again, not knowing exactly what’s involved and with miscommunication by both parties, Palladium did not realize it would be our responsibility to handle the thousands of emails and questions that would follow the successful funding of the Kickstarter. Remember, we were still figuring out and learning everything about Kickstarters, including establishing the BackerKit storefront to manage the pledges of our 5,000+ backers, among many other things. Consequently, something like six weeks went by without Palladium answering a single question or email on the Kickstarter page. It was only when one of the Ninjas reached out to Palladium, asking why were we ignoring the backers on the Kickstarter page, and the discussion that followed, that we at Palladium realized it was our job to manage the page. We jumped right on it, but by then, backers were frustrated and we had a thousand plus emails to answer, plus regular posts and updates to make. Like I said, it was crazy as that express train was rocketing down the tracks with more unexpected challenges and surprises to come.


Interesting reading, to be sure.

part 1/2
part 2/2

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June 7th, 2015, 6:27 am
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It wouldn't be like Kevin to write a long post in which he blames everyone but himself....

Picking up on his attempts to introduce himself and Palladium to the mini-gaming audience who may not know anything about them, Kevin has a long history of severe delays, excuses for why things are late, poor communication, and a tendency to blame subcontractors for any issues. He's also notoriously controlling of his product. That ND would have given him a shorter timescale than it has turned out rings true given that Relic Knights would undergo a similar, if much shorter, set of delays. The awful post-KS communication (which these posts continue as they contain no actual information about the status of the campaign) is pure Kevin. Getting himself in over his head because of his unwillingness to let others do their job is pure Kevin. I've read pieces like this from him going back over twenty years. "I'm going to let Ninja Division do their job and here is a timescale for completion" is the update we should be reading; "it's all the fault of the people I hired and here's no actual information" is the update we always get.


June 18th, 2015, 5:48 am
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Moderator Ninja
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My understanding is that, from the beginning, Ninja Division was hired to do some of the rules and designing the miniatures. I am sure the parts of the conversation he isn't sharing is that Ninja Division said they wouldn't help with the importing because that's not what they were contracted to do.

This is not the first time Palladium has ever imported anything. The fact that he claims that is hilarious.


June 22nd, 2015, 10:24 am
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