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 Robotech Tactics Kickstarter discussion 
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Ninja Corps
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I got the BattleTech Introductory Box Set because I loved the MechWarrior PC and clickies games, and my impression is that it's a very roll-heavy game, with lots of charts, too.
Shooting a 'Mech? Roll to see if you hit. That's reasonable.
Roll on a chart to see where you hit? Sure. Wait, which direction are you firing from? That affects which chart you roll on. Well, okay, I guess it wouldn't make sense to shoot a 'Mech's right side and damage its left arm.
You fired missiles? Well, gotta roll to see how many hit. Then separate rolls on the location chart for each SRM or cluster of LRMs.
A critical hit? Roll on a chart to see what gets damaged. Crits depend on what's mounted on / in the location you hit, so the chart is different for each and every 'Mech, but fortunately it's also right there on the 'Mech's record sheet because it's each location's list of equipment.
Uh-oh, you generated too much heat! Better roll to see if a bad thing happens!
'Mech walked into water? Roll to see if it falls down!
'Mech has AMS and missiles are coming at it? Roll to see if the AMS shoots any down, then roll again to see how many!
'Mech's pilot sneezed? Roll to see if he accidentally ejects!
Okay, okay, one of those was made up, but you get my point. And the Introductory Rulebook said there's two more levels of rules that are even more complicated. I hope they don't involve more dice rolls.

At least you're only rolling two dice at a time. I was watching some guys play Warhammer 40,000, and one of them declared an attack with some boxy tank-looking thing. He picked up a good 20-some small-size dice and just poured them onto the middle of the table. 4s or better were hits, apparently. Then his opponent picked up almost as many dice and rolled for 5s and 6s to negate some of the hits. And I thought WarmaHordes could get dice-crazy in that one edge case where you might roll five dice to hit and then six for damage.

Getting to the original topic, I dunno what to think, really. It does seem kind of not cool that they'd be selling the game at a con while backers are still waiting, especially if they aren't shipping to backers at all yet. Doesn't quite sit right with me, you know? Did Palladium straight-up, in those words, promise backers they'd get the game first?

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July 30th, 2014, 8:42 pm
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> Warhammer 40,000

My impression of 40k is that it's a game where a ton of dice are thrown for minimal effect. From the games and batreps I've seen, it tends to go like:

1. "I have thirty guys with two attacks each in this squad. That's 60 attacks."

2. "Unfortunately, my guys all suck or something, so I need 5s to hit. Let's see. . . that's about 20 actual hits."

3. "Ah, the target is benefiting from cover, so on 4 or higher, a hit is negated. Let's see. . . that's about 10 actual wounding dice."

4. "But they also have t-shirts on, the absolute worst armor in the 41st millenium, which negates damage on a six! So only about 8 guys die."

-----

Shadowrun can be almost as bad in terms of number of dice rolled, but at least in that game, the impression is that tons of dice eventually lead to significant effect. The Japanese pen and paper RPG "Tenra Bansho Zero" also comes to mind: I once witnessed a Samurai at full hulk-out with a giant gunblade declare a heroic moment which allowed him to borrow everyone else's "Kiai" dice and earn something like 120 dice. . . which he split into two attacks, because it is literally impossible to one-shot a main character in TBZ, including major villains.


July 31st, 2014, 9:15 am
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themocaw wrote:
> Warhammer 40,000

My impression of 40k is that it's a game where a ton of dice are thrown for minimal effect. From the games and batreps I've seen, it tends to go like:

1. "I have thirty guys with two attacks each in this squad. That's 60 attacks."

2. "Unfortunately, my guys all suck or something, so I need 5s to hit. Let's see. . . that's about 20 actual hits."

3. "Ah, the target is benefiting from cover, so on 4 or higher, a hit is negated. Let's see. . . that's about 10 actual wounding dice."

4. "But they also have t-shirts on, the absolute worst armor in the 41st millenium, which negates damage on a six! So only about 8 guys die."


In Warhammer 40K rolling more dice is always better then only a few dice and good stats. the "bucket of dice" mechanic helps mitigate randomness. The more dice you roll the closer your result will be to Gaussian distribution, the more predictable your actions become...


July 31st, 2014, 7:59 pm
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Minion
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The newest drama over the Robotch Tactics games has been about who is in charge of organized play and Demos for the game. Whether it is Paladium's responsibility or Ninja Division's

Does Ninja Division have anything more to do with the game outside of designing the models?


August 3rd, 2014, 10:11 pm
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When some of us Ninjas asked we've been told Palladium is in charge.


August 4th, 2014, 2:33 am
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Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
When some of us Ninjas asked we've been told Palladium is in charge.



I read somewhere someone posted you guys were supposed to be doing Demos at the Cons (if your ninja division).

as it goes I backed the game for the unseen mecha for my battletech game, problem is i'm worried about this lawsuit talk, since talked to my room mate (he used to be a lawyer, but he got sick and retired) and he says there is a case there, and an ugly one at that, he even asked me if I wanted to file, told him no, but worried because of it I might need to be ready to sue for my money if I don't get my product.

what do you guys think will happen, I've seen some say its all hot air, but my concern is what if its not?


August 4th, 2014, 12:50 pm
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Scarapis wrote:
Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
When some of us Ninjas asked we've been told Palladium is in charge.



I read somewhere someone posted you guys were supposed to be doing Demos at the Cons (if your ninja division).

as it goes I backed the game for the unseen mecha for my battletech game, problem is i'm worried about this lawsuit talk, since talked to my room mate (he used to be a lawyer, but he got sick and retired) and he says there is a case there, and an ugly one at that, he even asked me if I wanted to file, told him no, but worried because of it I might need to be ready to sue for my money if I don't get my product.

what do you guys think will happen, I've seen some say its all hot air, but my concern is what if its not?


Robotech is only 8 months late,
There are way later kickstarters


August 4th, 2014, 3:16 pm
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Digclaw wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
When some of us Ninjas asked we've been told Palladium is in charge.



I read somewhere someone posted you guys were supposed to be doing Demos at the Cons (if your ninja division).

as it goes I backed the game for the unseen mecha for my battletech game, problem is i'm worried about this lawsuit talk, since talked to my room mate (he used to be a lawyer, but he got sick and retired) and he says there is a case there, and an ugly one at that, he even asked me if I wanted to file, told him no, but worried because of it I might need to be ready to sue for my money if I don't get my product.

what do you guys think will happen, I've seen some say its all hot air, but my concern is what if its not?


Robotech is only 8 months late,
There are way later kickstarters


not sure what that has to do with my query ?


August 4th, 2014, 3:32 pm
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Scarapis wrote:
not sure what that has to do with my query ?


The rewards are only 8 months late, and wave 1 is due to hit the shores within weeks. There are people where it has been 2-3 years past the due date and they still don't have their rewards. Relic knights is 14-15 months late for international backers. But you want to sue after 8 months.

Yes I understand you are a battletech player and have a beef against Robotech (Harmony Gold) anyway, but just relax, don't go looking for reasons to be mad.

It is not that big of a deal yet, especially when you yourself said you are using the models to proxy for battletech.


August 4th, 2014, 3:46 pm
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Digclaw wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
not sure what that has to do with my query ?


The rewards are only 8 months late, and wave 1 is due to hit the shores within weeks. There are people where it has been 2-3 years past the due date and they still don't have their rewards. Relic knights is 14-15 months late for international backers. But you want to sue after 8 months.

Yes I understand you are a battletech player and have a beef against Robotech (Harmony Gold) anyway, but just relax, don't go looking for reasons to be mad.

It is not that big of a deal yet, especially when you yourself said you are using the models to proxy for battletech.



Actually couldn't care less about the HG thing, since it seems a miscommunication all around, but i'm not talking about delay, if some of those other lawsuits about PB breaking their word go thru, that means we will most likely not see our stuff, and that concerns me.


August 4th, 2014, 4:02 pm
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Scarapis wrote:
Digclaw wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
not sure what that has to do with my query ?


The rewards are only 8 months late, and wave 1 is due to hit the shores within weeks. There are people where it has been 2-3 years past the due date and they still don't have their rewards. Relic knights is 14-15 months late for international backers. But you want to sue after 8 months.

Yes I understand you are a battletech player and have a beef against Robotech (Harmony Gold) anyway, but just relax, don't go looking for reasons to be mad.

It is not that big of a deal yet, especially when you yourself said you are using the models to proxy for battletech.



Actually couldn't care less about the HG thing, since it seems a miscommunication all around, but i'm not talking about delay, if some of those other lawsuits about PB breaking their word go thru, that means we will most likely not see our stuff, and that concerns me.


It will have to get filed then processed first and wave one should start popping up at doorsteps before that, also if the shipment doesn't show up this week, the Gencon sales may not happen anyway.

Also remember most of the RRT comments section is internet bluster. People saying things to make themselves feel important.

If they were really gonna sue they would have files a cease and desist to stop the Gencon sales already, not file something to stop fulfillment.


August 4th, 2014, 4:10 pm
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Digclaw wrote:

It will have to get filed then processed first and wave one should start popping up at doorsteps before that, also if the shipment doesn't show up this week, the Gencon sales may not happen anyway.

Also remember most of the RRT comments section is internet bluster. People saying things to make themselves feel important.

If they were really gonna sue they would have files a cease and desist to stop the Gencon sales already, not file something to stop fulfillment.



Asked my roomie about a C&D he said it would be hard to do, also someone else said they filed a C&D, as it goes my roomie said best to file after the fact, cause then the case is made, filing before based on intent is harder to do since nothing wrong done yet.


August 4th, 2014, 4:14 pm
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Wave one fulfillment is due to start as soon as they get the shipment, which means fulfillment will be going on in tandem with gencon sales.


August 4th, 2014, 4:22 pm
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Digclaw wrote:
Wave one fulfillment is due to start as soon as they get the shipment, which means fulfillment will be going on in tandem with gencon sales.



that's what palladium says, one thing I've learned from this kickstarter is what palladium says and what palladium does seems to be 2 different things.


August 4th, 2014, 4:33 pm
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Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
In Warhammer 40K rolling more dice is always better then only a few dice and good stats.


As an Imperial Guard player, that isn't strictly true. :shock:

I can roll a *lot* of dice for Lasgun shooting by bog standard Guardsmen. They struggle to hit, struggle to wound, and rarely get past any sort of decent armor. It takes a LOT of Lasguns to get any result, Gaussian distribution or otherwise. An entire squad of 10 Guardsmen rapid-firing their Lasguns would be lucky to drop just a single Space Marine. A platoon of Guardsmen's Lasguns would have ZERO chance against a Gargantuan Bio-Titan. :o

OTOH, a single Warhound Titan with *REALLY* good stats (i.e. dual Turbo Laser Destructors) can fairly reliably one-shot that Tyranid Bio-Titan. :twisted:

A few dice with exceptionally good stats can easily be better than handsfuls of dice with truly terrible stats. :lol:

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August 4th, 2014, 9:36 pm
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Scarapis wrote:
Asked my roomie about a C&D he said it would be hard to do


Palladium running an open poll open to all backers, and getting 80% approval to go forward pretty much shuts down any C&D nonsense.

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August 4th, 2014, 9:39 pm
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GrauGeist wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
Asked my roomie about a C&D he said it would be hard to do


Palladium running an open poll open to all backers, and getting 80% approval to go forward pretty much shuts down any C&D nonsense.



yeah asked him about that on the people threatening lawsuits, he said as long as they did not give Palladium permission they still have a case, a majority vote does not remove the rights of those who dissent. so like I said still worried wave 2 may never come, but considering I am in it for the ones mostly coming in wave 1 so I am mostly covered there.


August 6th, 2014, 7:16 pm
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Scarapis wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
Scarapis wrote:
Asked my roomie about a C&D he said it would be hard to do


Palladium running an open poll open to all backers, and getting 80% approval to go forward pretty much shuts down any C&D nonsense.


yeah asked him about that on the people threatening lawsuits, he said as long as they did not give Palladium permission they still have a case, a majority vote does not remove the rights of those who dissent. so like I said still worried wave 2 may never come, but considering I am in it for the ones mostly coming in wave 1 so I am mostly covered there.


That overwhelming majority probably does. Especially if they cannot argue "harm", given that there is probably even greater harm in lost value due to lost publicity.

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August 6th, 2014, 8:48 pm
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GrauGeist wrote:
Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
In Warhammer 40K rolling more dice is always better then only a few dice and good stats.


As an Imperial Guard player, that isn't strictly true. :shock:

I can roll a *lot* of dice for Lasgun shooting by bog standard Guardsmen. They struggle to hit, struggle to wound, and rarely get past any sort of decent armor. It takes a LOT of Lasguns to get any result, Gaussian distribution or otherwise. An entire squad of 10 Guardsmen rapid-firing their Lasguns would be lucky to drop just a single Space Marine. A platoon of Guardsmen's Lasguns would have ZERO chance against a Gargantuan Bio-Titan. :o

OTOH, a single Warhound Titan with *REALLY* good stats (i.e. dual Turbo Laser Destructors) can fairly reliably one-shot that Tyranid Bio-Titan. :twisted:

A few dice with exceptionally good stats can easily be better than handsfuls of dice with truly terrible stats. :lol:


This is Apocalypse and therefore not a valid example ;)

I mean, compare comparable things, not guards men to titans. Eg. shoot at a Rhino's front armor using a lascannon carried by a marine as the squad heavy weapon (one shot good stats) or with a 2x2 Devourer Carnifex (8 shots twin linked lower BS, lower ST and lower AP) - who kills the Rhino more reliably?


August 6th, 2014, 9:24 pm
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IMO, Apocalypse is an excellent example of lots of bad stats, or small amazing stats. :lol:

I don't use Lascannon, waste of points. I take Missile Launchers, and lots of them.

I back my Guardsmen with Plasma Guns and Demolisher Cannons - the most powerful man-portable and vehicle-mounted weapons in the regular game. There is almost no problem in a regular game of 40k that a squadron of Leman Russ Demolishers doesn't do a pretty fair job of solving when backed by massed Plasma gunners.

It's funny when a Lasgun actually kills something, but I can depend on Demolishers and Plasma to get something done.

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August 6th, 2014, 9:40 pm
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