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Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3419
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Author:  eternaldream [ September 15th, 2014, 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

So I've read a couple topics around here about this, and it's got me thinking. So basically the idea is that the Consul player brings at least one, possibly two dual spawn points. Each Consul turn he will just spawn monsters, damaging the points. The goal is to destroy his own points to spawn minibosses and eventually the dungeon boss. Doing it that way, the heroes will probably be very under prepared to face the boss.

Did anyone find anything in the rules that prevents this kind of cheesy play? I didn't see specifically if the Consul can spawn models if the last wound would destroy it. Or do minibosses spawn only if the point is destroyed by a hero? If anything I think that needs some clarification. I already sent my thoughts to them on the kickstarter, but what do you all think?

Author:  Götz Kirchhauser [ September 15th, 2014, 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Perfectly possible the Consul would need 6 turns to self destruct. 6 turns in which the heroes can do as they please - enough time to fully equip 4 heroes and collect 4 princess coins that won't be used up before the boss fight. Somehow I doubt that's a sound tactic...

Author:  GrauGeist [ September 15th, 2014, 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

eternaldream wrote:
The goal is to destroy his own points to spawn minibosses and eventually the dungeon boss.


This will play faster, even if the Heroes do nothing but grab Chests.

I assume playtesting tried it as a strategy. If not, with rules going Beta, I'm sure others can and will.

Author:  Firesplitter [ September 20th, 2014, 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

So you feel like you want to set your boss against x heroes with x extra lives, fully healed? That sounds like a worst case schenary for the consol. What many people seem to underestimate when they talk about this strategy is how much loot heroes will be available to get during 6 turns in a 4 hero game and 9 turns during a 5 hero game. I can tell you that if stuff is as piled up as they are currently after a spawn I would likely get 3 loot (which is max) each activation and open maybe 2-3 treasure boxes easily, if not all four even.

I do not blame you for thinking this. I thought this too at an early point but drew the conclusion after some theoretical analyzes that it would put the heroes into end game under the best possible circumstances for really, after the boss spawn the minions/denizens are pretty irrelevant as all the DM will do is activate boss and miniboss.

What the monsters are are litterally walking loot/healing bags as if you feel short on life/potions it is just to attack some 0 star enemies for free hearts and potions. The new round system really nerfs having several monsters.

Author:  40Kpopper [ September 22nd, 2014, 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Firesplitter wrote:
The new round system really nerfs having several monsters.


On the other hand, as Auras only end when the model who initiated them activates again, it also means that the Consul could now activate a few models with defensive auras and then leave those defensive buffs hanging perpetually while he activates other monsters, no?

Author:  Götz Kirchhauser [ September 22nd, 2014, 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

40Kpopper wrote:
On the other hand, as Auras only end when the model who initiated them activates again, it also means that the Consul could now activate a few models with defensive auras and then leave those defensive buffs hanging perpetually while he activates other monsters, no?


Absolutely!

Author:  GrauGeist [ September 22nd, 2014, 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Part of me really wants to just move the entire thing to Igo-Ugo, but this limited alternation is specifically designed to keep the game close, rather than rewarding the Consul (or Heroes) for getting ahead.

Author:  Firesplitter [ September 22nd, 2014, 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

40Kpopper wrote:
Firesplitter wrote:
The new round system really nerfs having several monsters.


On the other hand, as Auras only end when the model who initiated them activates again, it also means that the Consul could now activate a few models with defensive auras and then leave those defensive buffs hanging perpetually while he activates other monsters, no?

Yes. That is true. I will however miss the extra consul activations </3

Author:  40Kpopper [ September 23rd, 2014, 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Firesplitter wrote:
Yes. That is true. I will however miss the extra consul activations </3


I dunno, I think the free Super monster activation that consul gets each turn more than makes up for that.

Played a game tonight where I had Starfire blocking up a two-square-wide chokepoint, with two Ironscales behind him with a perpetually hanging Shieldwall aura giving him 2 extra blue dice on defense... The party absolutely couldn't dent that defense and was eventually forced back and defeated by the dragon and the kobolds.

Author:  Götz Kirchhauser [ September 23rd, 2014, 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

40Kpopper wrote:
Played a game tonight where I had Starfire blocking up a two-square-wide chokepoint, with two Ironscales behind him with a perpetually hanging Shieldwall aura giving him 2 extra blue dice on defense... The party absolutely couldn't dent that defense and was eventually forced back and defeated by the dragon and the kobolds.


You played it wrong ;) no profiting twice from the same buff!

Author:  tcklein [ September 23rd, 2014, 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
40Kpopper wrote:
Played a game tonight where I had Starfire blocking up a two-square-wide chokepoint, with two Ironscales behind him with a perpetually hanging Shieldwall aura giving him 2 extra blue dice on defense... The party absolutely couldn't dent that defense and was eventually forced back and defeated by the dragon and the kobolds.


You played it wrong ;) no profiting twice from the same buff!


Additionally, why didn't the party shoot the Ironscales?

Author:  40Kpopper [ September 24th, 2014, 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

Götz Kirchhauser wrote:
You played it wrong ;) no profiting twice from the same buff!


Oh, that's right... :| The same aura even from two different models can't give the same buff to one model, can it? I may owe the party an apology.

tcklein wrote:
Additionally, why didn't the party shoot the Ironscales?


It was their first time. They had poison, compel, and burst attacks all at their disposal, but they just wanted to go for the frontal approach. :? It was a learning experience for all of us, at any rate.

Author:  victorymon [ October 22nd, 2014, 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

40Kpopper wrote:
Played a game tonight where I had Starfire blocking up a two-square-wide chokepoint, with two Ironscales behind him with a perpetually hanging Shieldwall aura giving him 2 extra blue dice on defense... The party absolutely couldn't dent that defense and was eventually forced back and defeated by the dragon and the kobolds.

I know that situation. I used the shieldwall and smoke so distance-attacks were out of question.

Self destruction of the spawn-points is no real option for me. As the consul you have to drown the so called heroes in waves of monsters.
Only downfall is that the heroes get tons of equipment now. OK, yeah, from what we understood the heroes can no longer trade loot/treasures or get hearts for dropped loot.

But it still feels harder than ever to be the bad guy.

Author:  40Kpopper [ October 22nd, 2014, 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

victorymon wrote:
Self destruction of the spawn-points is no real option for me..


I've played it both ways and I've come to the conclusion that I vastly prefer it if self-destruction is not an option for the Consul. IMO, it goes against the theme (when did generators ever self-destruct in Gauntlet?) and makes the play more of a slog (in most circumstances, if the Consul had only 1 wound on a generator it'd be silly not to pop it himself and revive/heal all available monsters before the heroes deny him that opportunity). It just feels better to me if the Consul can't pop that last wound on his own objective.

Author:  victorymon [ October 22nd, 2014, 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

I hope remember that right, when we destroy our spawn-points by ourself the boss still comes, right?

Author:  40Kpopper [ October 22nd, 2014, 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

The new rules PDF made no mention of self-destruction, it only says that during the Power Up phase (or whatever you want to call it) at the end of the turn, that if the spawn point was destroyed then the miniboss is placed on the board. In this case it means giving the heroes one free turn to attack the miniboss, of course, since it will be placed at the end of the Consul turn rather than the heroes' turn.

Author:  victorymon [ November 3rd, 2014, 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can the Consul self destruct his spawn points?

had a fascinating number of games yesterday at the local anime-convention...

I played with players who never played SDE before. But they really wanted to try it. And now the Spawn Point Self Destruct...

Imagine: The Mage and the Rouge against kobolds. All monsters are killed and the Rouge attacks the spawn-point, down to one HP.
Consuls turn: Respawn... Spawnpoint is destroyed. Rex is summoned.
Heroes turn. The Mage was down to 1 HP and she was burning... no potion or anything else left so: Bye Bye Mage.
Consuls turn... the Rouge was in the middle of a complete respawn.

...ouch...

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