Soda Pop Miniatures
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Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1299
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Author:  Kirenx [ November 30th, 2012, 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I see Deke has posted in the rules forum after an understandable absence with so much going on with SPM. I was thinking we should collect questions that have gone a long time without an official answer. Keep in mind this thread is not meant for new players with rulebook questions but rather for anything that has been debated by the SDE community without a proper conclusion. In addition the point of this thread is to get an official answer, not to hear how a particular player has decided their interpretation is “obviously” correct, so let’s save debates for other threads. That said, if an official answer has been given feel free to link it

Two I can think of are:

1. Flinger and Smoke Pot. There has been some talk about this ability. It is generally assumed that it can be used with the range from ‘missile 6’ but whether it has to target a unit, and if it is limited to an enemy and/or an ally needs clarification.

2. Mini-bosses and loot cards for Consul in SUPER games. This is one the community seems split on due to poor wording. It is understood that during the first run of the POWER GUAGE when the tracker reaches 16 bit one loot card is chosen for the Consul and one mini-boss in allowed to be spawned from then on. However, the confusion comes with when the second occurrence of drawing a loot card and spawning an additional mini-boss is available. The two sides of the player base are either: A) When the tracker hits SUPER on the POWER GUAGE during the first run, or B) When the tracker hits 16 bit during the second run of the POWER GUAGE. This requires an official stance.

Author:  ViciousX [ November 30th, 2012, 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Official stance on these would be awesome.

Author:  Exeltus [ November 30th, 2012, 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Kirenx wrote:
2. Mini-bosses and loot cards for Consul in SUPER games. This is one the community seems split on due to poor wording. It is understood that during the first run of the POWER GUAGE when the tracker reaches 16 bit one loot card is chosen for the Consul and one mini-boss in allowed to be spawned from then on. However, the confusion comes with when the second occurrence of drawing a loot card and spawning an additional mini-boss is available. The two sides of the player base are either: A) When the tracker hits SUPER on the POWER GUAGE during the first run, or B) When the tracker hits 16 bit during the second run of the POWER GUAGE. This requires an official stance.


I'm not quite certain why an official stance is required on this, it's pretty cut and dry in the manual.

Page 15 wrote:
Overcharge
For a five Hero game, after Super! is reached for the first time, flip the power marker so the red side is up and move it back to the start position. This is called Overcharge and the power game must be advanced through a second time.

During Overcharge the Consul may continue to spawn 8-bit and 16-bit monsters. Overcharge monsters may be spawned.

In addition the Consul may spawn and have in play up to 2 Mini-bosses and will draw and choose a second loot card in the same manner as the first. Denizens and Minions gain the effects of both chosen cards.

Once Super! is reached on Overcharge the dungeon boss is summoned.


Author:  Kirenx [ November 30th, 2012, 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Exeltus, please read the first paragraph prior to posting. As stated this is NOT the thread to declare what you believe is “cut and dry”. Others, myself included, have found the wording ambiguous, especially the meaning of “in the same manner as the first” which can have dual interpretations. Thus as previously stated this requires an official stance. In the future please begin a new thread if you want to debate the necessity of official answers for specific questions.

Author:  SPM_Deke [ November 30th, 2012, 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

A compilation would indeed be fantastic, I am working on Relic Knights over the weekend so I will check back here next week. In the meantime post your ancient questions here.

Who knows I may even manage to answer the magical smoke mystery. :P

Author:  Exeltus [ November 30th, 2012, 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Kirenx wrote:
Exeltus, please read the first paragraph prior to posting. As stated this is NOT the thread to declare what you believe is “cut and dry”. Others, myself included, have found the wording ambiguous, especially the meaning of “in the same manner as the first” which can have dual interpretations. Thus as previously stated this requires an official stance. In the future please begin a new thread if you want to debate the necessity of official answers for specific questions.


Ok~ My B.

Author:  GrauGeist [ December 1st, 2012, 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

OK, if I'm playing 5-hero game:

Start = Boss effect in play
1st 16-bit = draw a 1st Loot card, allow up to 1 16-bit monster,
1st Super = draw a 2nd Loot card, allow up to 2 16-bit monsters
2nd 16-bit = draw a 3rd Loot card, allow up to 3 16-bit monsters
2nd Super = Boss arrives

Yes?

Author:  Kirenx [ December 1st, 2012, 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Thanks Deke, I don't think there are too many questions out there that haven't been answered but it will be nice to get an official word on the few that remain to put them to rest.

Another one: I was thinking about Burst. After a lot of rules-lawyering many have decided that Burst is only to be used with range, meaning Burst abilities and attacks simply cannot be used in melee. This came from a rather vague description of Burst that states that it occurs "as part of a ranged attack or ability." It would be interesting to hear if this is what was intended or if rough wording has simply lead us to the conclusion many of us now use.

GrauGeist wrote:
OK, if I'm playing 5-hero game:

Start = Boss effect in play
1st 16-bit = draw a 1st Loot card, allow up to 1 16-bit monster,
1st Super = draw a 2nd Loot card, allow up to 2 16-bit monsters
2nd 16-bit = draw a 3rd Loot card, allow up to 3 16-bit monsters
2nd Super = Boss arrives

Yes?


No, there is never a 3rd loot card or 3 16-bit monsters. The question brought up on this thread has to do with the timing of what happens under your listing of "1st Super".

Author:  Chillibear [ December 1st, 2012, 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I'd quite like some official clarification about flying over and shooting through spaces without squares printed on them, not a massive issue given that most of the official boards are fully covered with a grid, but I expect as we start to get more boards released more odd cases will appear. From the thread (http://forums.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1112):
azoxystrobin wrote:
However whilst playing I noticed something, something I hadn't thought of before, and yet it is written.
For example Fly allows a model to ignore things in squares (like models and effects) fair enough, but a wall, or a great whopping hole isn't a square !!
So those little dragon things can't fly over the abyss in that crystal dungeon bridge tile thingy, they can't fly over walls either !

Then another thing, obviously appeared, a model can't shoot over the abyss either. No squares = no shooting (magic x, range x or missile x)

Vicomte Athos wrote:
Actually I've been kind of annoyed by this for quite some time. That cavern tile with the bridges and you can't shoot across them. Ugh. There needs to be rules for 'open squares' where you can't stop unless you can fly and you can see across. Would make the flying dragons more useful and allow starfire to fight from an area where only a ranged attacker can get to her.

So are open spaces on the boards ever considered squares and if so for what effects?

Author:  Magarch [ December 2nd, 2012, 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I would love to have an official clarification about Vulnerable/X. It's not a big deal, but I'd like to know if the way it was intended really works as soon as you target the Vulnerable model with an X ability - so that means you don't have to roll any dice to inflict that extra damage. Just to be sure that Fire and Burning Gels are indeed automatically killed when you target them with a Cold ability. :D

Author:  Svengaard [ December 3rd, 2012, 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I'm curious about models that get displaced by effects, like how to resolve the Rocktop's throw ability when all the squares around a hero are occupied by minions/denizens.

Author:  SPM_Deke [ December 4th, 2012, 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Oh man do I have an update coming for you guys ... will hit probably next week sometime. In the meantime keep posting those questions.

Author:  Kirenx [ December 5th, 2012, 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

One question thrown around a while back that I remember was the status effect FIRE and the loot track. The FAQ stated:

Q: Do Fire Damage, Backlash and other damage dealing effects advance the Loot Tracker or Power Gauge?
A: The rules for each effect state that the Power Gauge does not advance. The Loot-O-Meter advances as normal.

However it was never clarified if that referred to all instances of FIRE or if FIRE effects from heroes had to be tracked separate than if say a monster walked into lava.

Author:  SPM_Deke [ December 5th, 2012, 2:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I'm not certain I understand. Fire is fire. There are not different types only different sources. Let me know if I'm missing something.

Author:  Kirenx [ December 5th, 2012, 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

SPM_Deke wrote:
I'm not certain I understand. Fire is fire. There are not different types only different sources. Let me know if I'm missing something.


The FAQ seemed to suggest that damage from fire advanced the Loot Track. However it was questioned whether the source of the fire effect mattered or if any damage done to a monster by the fire effect counted towards the Loot Track moving. For example, if Rex walks through lava and is set on fire, is that different from if Rex is set on fire by the Ember Mage? In addition, what if Rex is moved into lava by a push effect and thus gains the fire status effect? Does the Loot Track advance for the damage done by all these sources of fire or only specific instances such as if fire is placed on a monster directly by a heroes attack.

Author:  SPM_Chris [ December 5th, 2012, 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

The question can be translated to mean, "Does damage to monsters from NPC or 3rd party sources other than heroes count towards advancing the loot counter?"

Author:  Kirenx [ December 5th, 2012, 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

SPM_Chris wrote:
The question can be translated to mean, "Does damage to monsters from NPC or 3rd party sources other than heroes count towards advancing the loot counter?"


Haha, that's a much more elegant way of putting it than my rambling attempt.

The specific concern with Fire is that if the source matters, tracking which monster got which fire effect from which source could be confusing.

Author:  SPM_Deke [ December 5th, 2012, 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

Ah, I see. My initial answer is "no" because the damage is not due to an effect caused by a Hero which is the requirement for advancing the Loot-o-Meter.

However, I see your point, Kiren, how keeping track of which fire came from where could be burdensome. In practice it rarely is because most monsters just die, but from a rules point it does possess the potential for bookkeeping irritation.

I will think about it and provide an answer with the full FAQ update I am working on.

Author:  ZTLambe [ December 5th, 2012, 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

I would like to say, the "Fire Issue" came up in our group as well, we treated it as "any source of damage to the mob moved the loot tracker" as there could be potential issues with the DM being a bit sneaky. Aka throwing away monsters/miniboss, on purpose into fire, to deny loot/treasure.

Author:  Magarch [ December 6th, 2012, 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Long-running FAQs requiring SPM attention

After a game with a paladin using the Insignificant ability to his own advantage, I was wondering myself if that was really intended.

"Insignificant" owned by the Fire Gels says that it doesn't advance the Power Gauge...but it says nothing for the Loot-O-Meter, which works differently. Does that mean that heroes can gain loot cards by killing those flame critters without any danger of summoning the boss too fast ? I'm not against it, but I'd rather like to be sure so that I can make a counter for these pesky heroes... :P

And just to be sure as well, the free melee attack gained by "Insignificant" is really for the attacker, not for the Fire Gel being stomped on ?

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