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 Holy vs Undead with Aoe's ? 
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Mini-Boss
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Joined: February 27th, 2013, 3:20 am
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How do you reroll for an AOE vs undead and non undead targets ? Since you only get a single attack roll.

Von Wildings potion for example has Burst 1 Holy.

Or the Sister of Light's Cross 1 Holy attack.

Do you get a reroll at all ?


April 5th, 2013, 11:30 pm
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You make your AoE roll. Non-undead make their defence roll. Hero makes their re-roll against undead (if they want to). Undead now make their defence rolls.


April 6th, 2013, 12:11 am
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The only problem with that method would be this:

I rolled 1 star and a heart in this given AOE with holy. This is enough to damage/kill one or more non-undead models in the AOE...I do so, and gain a heart effect. I then look at the undead model(s) in the AOE. they require 2 stars to effect. So, i re-roll the heart die to try and get that second star. The re-roll comes up a star. now, i have 2 stars, and can effect the undead, but I have no heart. Do I retroactively lose the heart? because it was present when i\I successfully attacked one or more models.

I personally don't see the issue with having holy be something that procs when an undead is part of an AOE, regardless of what else is or isn't part of it. That means in the above example, when you roll the one star and one heart, you may either apply that result to all the enemies or choose to re-roll one die, then apply that to all the enemies, undead or not. It makes holy better, for sure, but only by a slim margin. And the clarity of use is worth that slim margin of buffing to the ability.


April 9th, 2013, 7:12 pm
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Usagi wrote:
The only problem with that method would be this:

I rolled 1 star and a heart in this given AOE with holy. This is enough to damage/kill one or more non-undead models in the AOE...I do so, and gain a heart effect. I then look at the undead model(s) in the AOE. they require 2 stars to effect. So, i re-roll the heart die to try and get that second star. The re-roll comes up a star. now, i have 2 stars, and can effect the undead, but I have no heart. Do I retroactively lose the heart? because it was present when i\I successfully attacked one or more models.

I personally don't see the issue with having holy be something that procs when an undead is part of an AOE, regardless of what else is or isn't part of it. That means in the above example, when you roll the one star and one heart, you may either apply that result to all the enemies or choose to re-roll one die, then apply that to all the enemies, undead or not. It makes holy better, for sure, but only by a slim margin. And the clarity of use is worth that slim margin of buffing to the ability.


I agree. If an undead is among a Holy AoE target, one reroll for all makes sense.


April 9th, 2013, 7:48 pm
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From Deke:

Quote:
If the Sister uses the Hammer of Judgement to target both an undead and non-undead monster at the same time, do you use the Holy reroll against both monsters?


SPM_Deke wrote:
Compare the initial result to all the non-undead then make the reroll and compare that to the undead.


April 10th, 2013, 12:48 am
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Exeltus wrote:
From Deke:

Quote:
If the Sister uses the Hammer of Judgement to target both an undead and non-undead monster at the same time, do you use the Holy reroll against both monsters?


SPM_Deke wrote:
Compare the initial result to all the non-undead then make the reroll and compare that to the undead.


Can you link to where he posted that exeltus ?


April 10th, 2013, 1:36 am
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chibi-noki wrote:
Exeltus wrote:
From Deke:

Quote:
If the Sister uses the Hammer of Judgement to target both an undead and non-undead monster at the same time, do you use the Holy reroll against both monsters?


SPM_Deke wrote:
Compare the initial result to all the non-undead then make the reroll and compare that to the undead.


Can you link to where he posted that exeltus ?


Unfortunately, I can't.


April 10th, 2013, 1:47 am
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Exeltus wrote:
From Deke:

Quote:
If the Sister uses the Hammer of Judgement to target both an undead and non-undead monster at the same time, do you use the Holy reroll against both monsters?


SPM_Deke wrote:
Compare the initial result to all the non-undead then make the reroll and compare that to the undead.


Hm, well there you go. Thanks for finding the offical response.


April 10th, 2013, 3:26 am
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But this doesn't really answer the question about potions and hearts. Like Usagi mentioned, what happens if I reroll a die that showed a potion?

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April 10th, 2013, 10:22 am
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If it did damage I see no reason why you wouldn't get it.

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April 10th, 2013, 1:16 pm
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Or even better... I rolled more than enough stars to kill everything. Can I re-roll a blank and hope to get an additional heart/potion?

Not trying to be a jerk here - these things are important to discuss (and fun).

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April 10th, 2013, 2:38 pm
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Goblin-King wrote:
Or even better... I rolled more than enough stars to kill everything. Can I re-roll a blank and hope to get an additional heart/potion?


Based on the way it was played in the playtest, I will say with assurance that yes, you can reroll a blank in hope of a heart/potion.

Based on Deke's statement above, I'd say it plays out like:

- Make initial roll
- resolve initial roll against regular targets, making note of how many hearts/potions there are on a successful roll
- make re-roll against undead
- resolve re-roll against undead targets, making note of any difference in potions/hearts on the one chosen die to reroll

The question becomes, can you double-dip on a rerolled die? What if the die chosen to reroll was a heart initially - would you get credit for the heart on the initial roll on the resolve against living targets? And if that die rolled up as a heart or potion on the reroll, would you get ANOTHER heart/potion as a result (if the roll was still a hit)?

I'm not sure how I'd rule it.


April 10th, 2013, 2:53 pm
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That's why it seems like a bad, overly complicated, ruling. Despite the "right" way of apparently doing it. I'll probably just have it be a simple "re-roll if there is undead/demons and you want to then apply results". In that case every single one of the "what ifs" in this thread are non existent and things are almost exactly the same, results wise.


April 10th, 2013, 7:54 pm
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thetang22 wrote:
Goblin-King wrote:
Or even better... I rolled more than enough stars to kill everything. Can I re-roll a blank and hope to get an additional heart/potion?


Based on the way it was played in the playtest, I will say with assurance that yes, you can reroll a blank in hope of a heart/potion.

Based on Deke's statement above, I'd say it plays out like:

- Make initial roll
- resolve initial roll against regular targets, making note of how many hearts/potions there are on a successful roll
- make re-roll against undead
- resolve re-roll against undead targets, making note of any difference in potions/hearts on the one chosen die to reroll

The question becomes, can you double-dip on a rerolled die? What if the die chosen to reroll was a heart initially - would you get credit for the heart on the initial roll on the resolve against living targets? And if that die rolled up as a heart or potion on the reroll, would you get ANOTHER heart/potion as a result (if the roll was still a hit)?

I'm not sure how I'd rule it.


I need to double check the errata and rules when I get home, but I feel like you'd be able to double dip a heart/potion from the same dice. The purpose of a re-roll is to modify what HAS been rolled. If you re-roll the same thing you just did then no-modification happens. Conversely, if you roll, hit and get a heart off of non-undead, and then opt to re-roll the heart dice (since you can't gain any more hearts from that roll) against the undead you don't magically lose the heart/potion you had just gained.


April 10th, 2013, 9:17 pm
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You dont resolve antthing gained with attack rolls untill all rerolls are done and the attack resolves then. It is your choice to sacrifice any potential item gains by rerolling any dice that had a hwart or potion on it. If you wanted that heart or potion then you take a chance with another dice hoping to roll higher


May 7th, 2013, 11:05 pm
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