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 [SDE] Choke rules when teammates drink potions 
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: March 24th, 2012, 7:24 pm
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The Consul got the Choke loot the other day, and it led to a whole mess of problems due to the "cannot benefit from potions" wording (rather than "cannot drink potions") on the status.

Team: Druid, Rogue, Ember Mage

Scenario one: The Druid drinks his potion, giving all teammates Healer until his next activation. The Rogue is then hit by an enemy and suffers from Choke. Does the Rogue immediately lose the Healer ability?

Scenario two: The Druid drinks his potion, giving all teammates Healer until his next activation. The Druid is then hit by an enemy and suffers from Choke. Does the Druid immediately lose the Healer ability? Do the Rogue and Ember Mage still have Healer for their turns?

Scenario three: The Druid is suffering from Choke. Can he throw his potion to the Rogue, thereby giving the entire party (including the Druid himself) Healer?

Scenario four: All three heroes are standing next to each other. The Rogue has Choke, the Ember Mage and Druid do not. The Ember Mage drinks her own White Mage potion, causing a Wave 5 of Heal 1 to emanate from her. Does the Rogue heal?

Scenario five: All three heroes are standing next to each other. The Ember Mage has Choke, the Rogue and Druid do not. Can the Ember Mage throw her potion to the Rogue, thereby causing the Wave 5 of Heal 1 to heal the entire group, including the Ember Mage herself?

Bonus scenario!
Scenario six: The Dwarf shows up late to the party, bringing his potion. The Druid, who is suffering from Choke, is about to take a huge hit. The Dwarf drinks his potion to take the hit for the Druid. This must be allowed, but isn't the Druid "benefiting" from the potion?


March 26th, 2012, 8:36 pm
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Ninja Corps
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I would go with the simple explanation of just saying a choked character can't be the target of a potion activation...anything that comes after activating it via a legitimate hero is still something a choked hero could benefit from.


March 26th, 2012, 9:09 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: March 21st, 2012, 4:24 pm
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+1 with usagi, It makes the most sense to me.


March 26th, 2012, 9:22 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: March 24th, 2012, 7:24 pm
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I agree with both of you that solution makes the most sense, but that's not what the rules say, and "makes the most sense" and SDE don't always see eye-to-eye (case in point: ranged counterattacks).


March 26th, 2012, 9:34 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Usagi wrote:
I would go with the simple explanation of just saying a choked character can't be the target of a potion activation...anything that comes after activating it via a legitimate hero is still something a choked hero could benefit from.


Fourthing this. To use a potion you must drink it (regardless of whose potion it is). If you're choking you can't drink anything. If you drank it before you started choking then there's no reason you couldn't still benefit from it.


March 26th, 2012, 9:35 pm
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Denizen
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This is actually an interesting question that I'd like to see officially addressed.


March 26th, 2012, 11:28 pm
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Bottle Cap
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I think that "cannot benefit from potions" means a hero cannot drink or gain the effects of a previously drank potion.

So in particular scenarios, such as when an Ember Mage makes someone else drink her potion, the Ember Mage can still be healed from that potion used on someone else. The logic being that she is benefiting from the after effect of someone else drinking the potion, Heal 1, and not directly from the potion itself.

With that in mind, I'd say that in order to stop the benefit of Healer from the Druid potion, Choke would have to affect only the person who actually drank the Druid's Healer potion. If that happened, then that hero would not be allowing everyone else to have Healer -- in the same way that Healer for everyone wears off when it's that Hero's turn again.

That's how I'm logicizing it.


March 27th, 2012, 2:15 am
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Denizen
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If the wording is specifically "cannot benefit from potions", then I'd interpret it that even the wave of the White Mage Potion cannot aid the Choke victim, even if you use the potion on somebody else.


March 27th, 2012, 6:48 am
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Bottle Cap
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Xylon Lionheart wrote:
This is actually an interesting question that I'd like to see officially addressed.


Do devs visit these boards and give official rulings?


March 27th, 2012, 7:32 pm
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Mini-Boss
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squeaker wrote:
Xylon Lionheart wrote:
This is actually an interesting question that I'd like to see officially addressed.


Do devs visit these boards and give official rulings?


That they do!


March 27th, 2012, 9:44 pm
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Minion
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Seems clear to me that if you can't benefit then you don't gain healer from the Druid potion and don't get healed by the white mage potion.


April 1st, 2012, 9:31 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Has anyone gotten an official response on this? I'm still quite curious! Also (as a Consul) I'm really hoping for some mobs with Choke in CoR (shut down that pesky Paladin right quick!).


June 27th, 2012, 2:35 pm
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Minion
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I think part of the problem is that people have been using the expression or term that a Hero "drinks" a potion. They also have assumed that when a Hero benefits from the effects of a Potion, he's the one who drank it.

I don't think this is the case and I think the rules support this (page 20).

"To use a potion, declare that the Hero is using their potion..."
"Heroes can also use their own potion to benefit another Hero. To do this, the Hero uses their potion normally, but declares another Hero ... will receive the benefits instead."

When the rules describe Potions, every time they are clear that a Hero uses a potion. It doesn't say he drinks a potion, it says he uses it. It also is clear that it is always the owner of the Potion who is the one who uses it. Nowhere does it say or imply that the owner of a Potion gives it to another Hero to use. The rules always say a Hero uses their potion.

Thematically, we don't know what Potions are. They seems to be some sort of magic spell that gives the person who uses it a special power. A special power that they can apply to anyone, any Hero (including the Hero who uses it) can benefit from the effects of the potion. To me, it seems that each Tribe / Guild / Race has their own secret potion that only the members of that Tribe / Guild / Race can use. Only they know the secrets of how to use the potion and what it does. It's no good that the Mage tosses her White Mage Potion to the Rogue because the Rogue doesn't know how to use it, only the Mage knows.

This doesn't mean that others can't benefit from a potion, it just means that only one Hero can use a specific potion. Only the Rogue can use Dimensional Draught, she decides which Hero benefits from the effects.

So given this, "A model suffering from CHOKE may not use or benefit from the effects of Potions".

To me, this means that if a Hero has CHOKE:
(i) They may not use their own potions, if the Hero has a potion on their card, then that particular potion may not be triggered.
(ii) They may not benefit from any Potion used by another Hero.

The only way to get rid of CHOKE is to roll a Heart (when attacking and damaging an enemy). White Mage Potion, Healer, Elixir, none of these will work on a Hero with CHOKE.


June 27th, 2012, 3:34 pm
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Minion
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Remedy can get rid of Choke, as it's not a Potion.

Other than that, I have to agree with xris; "cannot use" and "cannot benefit from" should be treated as separate clauses. I would, however, say a model which is first affected by Nourishing Berries and later Choked would keep Healer. Reason being that it has already benefited from the potion, and Choke says nothing about removing persistent effects.

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June 27th, 2012, 4:15 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Excellent explanations, guys. Much clearer now!


June 27th, 2012, 4:27 pm
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Minion
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Celtkhan wrote:
Remedy can get rid of Choke, as it's not a Potion.

Indeed. I had forgotten about Special Actions such as Herbalist which gives Remedy. I was only thinking of the Elixir Potion that gave Remedy.


June 27th, 2012, 4:30 pm
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Denizen
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This will be much more important when the Hellhound comes out and is able to cause Choke with his ability.


June 27th, 2012, 7:45 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Xylon Lionheart wrote:
This will be much more important when the Hellhound comes out and is able to cause Choke with his ability.


Is the Hellhound included in CoR, or is he for another expansion down the road?


June 27th, 2012, 8:07 pm
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Minion
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By all accounts, he's a Fireflow Denizen alongside the Burning Gels and Blaze Beetles. GenCon, baby!

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June 27th, 2012, 8:11 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Xylon Lionheart wrote:
This will be much more important when the Hellhound comes out and is able to cause Choke with his ability.


Ok wait, I've seen mention of the Crusher's powers and now this. From Glenns pics those cards were unreadable/not present. There another place that has these shown? I don't remember anyone mentioning it.

*feels mad out of the loop*


June 27th, 2012, 10:29 pm
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