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 OC's 23rd June Feedback 
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Pre-Games:

General
Why were the Cypher abilities that facilitated faction tokens removed?
While they needed work I felt they were a good addition.

On unit cards can damage presses be put first?

I'm concerned that armour is now potentially more powerful than if it was a static value.
For example Vyper is Armor 1 (P)
Defence section says she Flips 1. Let's say she Flips a 2P card.
Defence section then says she can discard cards. Let's say she discards a 2P.
That's 4 damage reduction from 1 point of Armor! The first 2 is ok, it's more likely to be 0, so the trade off is the ability to get more armour by Flipping. But being able to play from hand for 1 or 2, because you will never play from hand for 0.

Secondly this makes Block worse than Armor whether your hand can afford to pay the cost of getting Armor equal to your printed Armor. Because say you have 2 printed and 2 from cover, you can now gamble the 4 Flip and still be sure if getting 2. This gives you the chance to get more than 4 damage reduction and deck cycles.

So yes, I really don't understand this change. Just going back to static Armor would be better at this point.

Black Diamond Cards
Necrosynths have Regenerate which makes it redundant to have on their Dark Vitality power.

Cerci Speed Circuit Cards
Marie-Claude RK: ok so with the current wording Rin Farah/DS One Shot/Suicide Queen (Metal) can be squirrelled away and then draw LoS from any unit that has a Pit Token, didn't we have a problem in before?

Noh Cards
Zineda QK: I like the change here.

Zineda RK: the reward for managing to get 3 tokens seems low. Though in 50pt games it should be easier. Still the issue with having to get 3 units into melee and do damage.

DS Rin Farrah is Unseen Shot supposed to work with her benefiting from Stealth in cover?

Shattered Sword Cards
DS Jacob doesn't have Block on his defence action.

Star Nebula Corsairs
Moffet still refers to exhaustion tokens.

Void Cards
DS Marikan To has no ranged attacks but has Killmarks and also has a melee focus, making it even more useless.

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Last edited by Obsidian-Crane on June 25th, 2017, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



June 24th, 2017, 8:53 am
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And now for the Post Game stuff:

50 points.
4.5 Hours (arrghh)
7-2 to SSP

SSP
RK Sebastian & Rook
Navarre
2 Paragons (upgraded)
2 Purifiers (upgraded)
DS Jacob

Noh
RK Kasaro To & Azi
Mamaro To
Beastmaster
2 Berserkers (Upgraded)
4 Hounds (Upgraded)


Questions:
  • Is DS Jacob's "One Thousand Cuts" collateral damage?
  • Is DS Jacob's One Thousand Cuts supposed to do 2 damage max against each unit targeted or can it do 2/card against one unit?
  • Why were the Cypher abilities that facilitated faction tokens removed? The removal of this ability limits unit choices from Radiant/Void significantly and lowers the utility of Cyphers.

Comments:
  • The inclusion of the ability to pay for armour from hand as well as from flips slowed the game down. While we had no issues with hand management, the ability to just take 1 or 2 points less damage on top of whatever was enough to add turns to the game while attacks were missed due to being more dependant on flips and units just living longer. (Azi and Rook would have both died in the same turn without this rule, instead both were alive at the end of the game many turns later with Rook having been fully healed as well...). In fact this was worse than playing against the +2 Armor from Sebastian QK in terms of difficulty killing things. At least Sebastian can be mitigated by managing attacks vs units with Righteous tokens and so on. This just slowed things horribly.
  • DS Jacob just brutalises Noh and he makes Kasaro To look like a wimp. DS Jacob's raw attacks are crazy powerful, well above the curve for a unit of his cost and then there is the issue with how One Thousand Cuts should work (and it wasn't even used). We basically consider DS Jacob an auto-include in 50 point games because very few lists will not have an RK on an 80mm base which is a prime target to take 10 damage then get cut up by One Thousand Cuts (depending on the answer to how its supposed to work). For tournament play he would be an auto-include at 35 points as well, just for hunting down anything on a 40mm or larger base.
    Finally DS Jacob has a defence action that isn't a Block, but pays for 2 Armor, we played it this way and frankly this, combined with the ability to pay from hand and the Purifiers made him able to safely go toe to toe with Kasaro To at objectives (ie utilising the objective for cover to get to 5 Armor effective).
  • The healing ability of the Purifiers was a big problem as well. If they get the AoE down where it cannot be removed easily then stand close to other units in it, they heal 5 damage per unit in the AoE per activation for essentially nothing and then on their activation can heal up to 6 damage. This was crazy. It made Sebastian in particular unkillable. (Having him heal 3-12 damage when you are struggling to do 5 to him was crazy, this situation was created by the ratio of Hero to Minion tokens in a 50pt game.) (And they produce less healing than Isabeau!)
  • Rook RK was amazing this game. In the end he was the game winning unit for SSP. Castle let him pull Sebastian into combat, swap unit positions to optimise access to Noh Objectives so that maximum points were scored. This only reinforced my prior opinion that given both Rooks as choices for QK Sebastian I would never run the QK version.
  • Navarre + Paragons worked well. While the intended strategy fell apart with contact with the enemy, Navarre was able to keep them alive long enough for them to slay the Hounds and pose a threat. Still having a defence action would make them better.
  • Kasaro To was just horrible. The big terrible Noh RK was a paper kitten. His Cadre Ability is useless unless the whole cadre tries to stay within 6" of him, which means they cannot effectively attack and defend across the table. Then the fact his attacks felt weak compared to what the SSP were able to deliver through Sebastian, DS Jacob, Navarre and the Paragon's Upgrade just made it worse. The idea that he could even get his attack of 2x is wishful thinking anyway, the fact that when he does damage it does nothing for him because Blood Tokens are useless on him just adds insult to that injury.
    Just looking at Kasaro To vs Sebastian, Kasaro To is working hard to get 8 damage, Sebastian has reliable 10 and 12 if he has a Righteous Token. Again another Noh Knight that is junk. (Zineda RK isn't much better, but at least you might get the +1 Damage effect from it her Cadre ability and she can hit 10 damage...)
  • Both Blood and Righteous tokens were not earnt several times during this game. Which is why having a way to get them outside of their inherent mechanic is important. Admittedly we were tired and forgot the SSP ones a few times as well, but the Noh ones were not even worth remembering because of the uselessness of the Cadre ability.
  • One thing we struggle with is the need to activate Heroes then Minions. Many units have powers that work better if the Minion activates first (eg Minions that drop damage boost AoEs like Azi) but end up not being effective because they are forced to go second.
  • As a note we also find ourselves doing a lot of what amounts to hand manipulation. Every 3rd turn or so sees a Cypher getting a Hero activation just for the purpose of trying to build a hand to be able to play actions. This is indicative of 1 of 2 problems; either there isn't enough card draw or actions cost too much.

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June 25th, 2017, 2:53 pm
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Hopefully I will get to test things this week, but here are my first thoughts.

This armor update feels like it will cause more problems then it fixes. It seems like it would be way to easy for units to get to max armor, creating the problem from 1.0 you were specifically trying to fix.

I'd also like to mention it specifically disadvantages SNC. The pirates have the lowest draw value, with the balance factor being having higher flips. And this actually works well in most cases and in my test games I haven't felt weaker having a less-than-full hand. HOWEVER this instantly becomes a problem with the new armor system. Pirate armor is low to average (with a couple of exceptions) so we don't have our flip advantage AND we won't have the cards in hand every other army will. I know this is before testing, but I honestly feel pirates have become the lowest armored faction in the game with the new rule.


And now for specific SNC concerns:

Ceasar (RK) - Yes i'm going to keep bringing up Heckling Mimic until it's either explained to me why it works or its changed.

Calico Kate (QK) - Dual Shot still says "Breaching Charge" in it's presses. I think the damage is a bit low, but with Blast and Knockback it could still be useful. It's just odd seeing such low damage on a knight, especially when the model has her proudly wielding those big guns.

Kenobo - Seems kinda weak for his cost. Jenner the Seeker has the same cost, and same cost melee attack with similar mechanics but Jennar's melee is just outright better. Jenner also has better stats, armor, and a ranged attack. Kenobo's second activation ability and compel AOE are neat, but I don't think makes him comparable to Jenner.

Rust Bucket - Wow does this thing seem hard to kill. I mean, it's costed like a knight but with 20 health AND 4 armor AND Guard AND the new armor rules I do not think it can be killed.

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June 25th, 2017, 3:22 pm
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I'm curious as to why both Harbonath and the Avatar Amelial have the same cadre ability (add Drain 1 if you have a token)? Mind, I understand they have different psychic and defensive abilities but given that they're similar in point cost and designed to be melee-oriented with bloodthirsty and Reave, they still feel kind of...samey to me? This is doubley-confusing given that Amelial's 2.0 build kept her role as the Void Avatar in mind. She was the embodiment of the abyss and her ability reflected that by augmenting the psychic horror she and her army inflicts. Why was that theme dropped gameplay-wise?


June 26th, 2017, 2:27 pm
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I'd like to see DS Jacob changed in a way that makes Titan Killer and Falling leaf much more dependent on his target. Drop the base damage of Titan Killer while increase the gain for a larger base target. This would make the attacks distinct, while maintaining interesting gameplay strategies with him.

As it is, if you're not going to use his movement (ie leave him engaged), there is no reason to use Falling Leaf unless DS Jacob engaged that turn.

I like where the unit is going, as a very mobile hit-and-run-and-hit style of play, but I agree with Obsidian-Crane that he needs to have his power toned down slightly, both for balance, and to really emphasize his intended play style.


June 26th, 2017, 2:38 pm
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Another game down.

50 Pts
Doctrine (Villain) vs SSP (Champion)
Game Length: 3 Hours
Result: 6-5 for Doctrine.

After last game I wanted to see how a different faction went against the SSP and I also rearranged the terrain so there was a lot more open space.
Image

SSP
RK Sebastian & Rook
Navarre
2 Paragons (upgraded)
2 Purifiers (upgraded)
DS Jacob

Doctrine
RK Kisa & Scratch
Fiametta
DS Zineda
3 Academy Guard
3 Novitiates (Upgraded)

Questions:
Do "begins their activation", "start of their activations" "gain an activation token" and "receives an activation token" all have the same timing? (We played yes, but on more careful reading realised the answer might be no.)

When a Knight dies does their Cadre trait go as well? (Thus rendering Faction tokens useless by and large.)

DS Jacob
  • One Thousand Cuts: Is it supposed to let you dump your hand to damage 1 enemy or just let you do 2 damage to each engaged enemy?
  • One Thousand Cuts: Is this damage that defence actions can be used against? (Actually this applies to all these sorts of powers.)
Scratch:
  • Is "Nice Kitty" supposed to stop Hero Shielding?

Game Comments
  • The game came down to "can Navarre kill Zineda" and he failed to activate his attack, so she survived (the last Doctrine Hero) and the next activation was Scratch who scored the 2VP the Doctrine needed to win. So that was pretty cool after the horrible game the prior night.
  • With the change to more open terrain things went better with no problems with accessing areas of the board. So this is a big deal.
  • Which brings up cover, in reviewing some of the discussion on the forum the fact that Objectives don't offer protection was noted (again as I pointed it out), yet we have always been playing they do (oops). However this comes back to the idea that cover giving +2 Armor would be a better rule and remove the need for the protection rule entirely. I spoke about this more here: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13916
  • "Additionally, when a unit wishes to move out of being engaged with one or more enemy units, they must Flip 3. This is called disengaging. If the unit Flips any esper matching any of the icons shown in their armor skill, then they may move out of being engaged." This seems to imply that a unit can disengage from multiple units with 1 Flip, if that is the intent it (like the whole Engaged section) needs clarification.
  • Despite all the deck/hand manipulation the Doctrine still had attacks fail. This was good. (Well not at the time, but good for the game.) That said it shouldn't be possible to manipulate your opponent's deck. This is just asking for trouble in terms of making the game less fun for the opponent, and not to mention just plain annoying.
  • I never activated DS Zineda's Shadowblade press, but it brings up an issue: presses that require damage to happen to work should have lower costs. Because you have to pay for the press before you know if the press works.
  • It seems strange that Knights are not Officers for their Cyphers. The fact that an engaged unit must attack a Cypher over a Hero (even the Knight) resulted in Rook's early demise because there was no way to protect him. Scratch was safe because of Nice Kitty, but Rook was crushed handily. I think at a minimum Hero Shielding should be optional for Cyphers.
  • On defences no unit should be paying more Esper for a defence than the defence offers in effect.
  • Can Support actions be listed as [Support][Type] Name or [Support] Name [Type] to help make it clear that they are not [Type] actions and thus not affected by their range and use restrictions (eg ranged support work while in melee)?

SSP Units Feedback
  • To be honest having a (so just 1 model left) Paragon one shot Fiametta made me pause. I'm concerned that the "tanky" faction has attacks that peak out over 10 points of damage. In fact this list has Paragons (10-13 points), Sebastian (9-12 points with Overcharge), Navarre (8-10 but can be Piercing 3), and DS Jacob (7-12), ie basically only the healing support and Rook don't have the ability to deliver 10+ points of damage in an attack.
  • Otherwise nothing new to add on these units from prior reports.

Doctrine Units Feedback
  • Kisa: Having been very frustrated by Kasaro To last night playing Kisa was a lot of fun, she made a big difference to the Cadre, she was worth activating for the 3 E Draw and her actions felt dangerous and suitable to such a major figure. (Jacob and Sebastian killed her quickly though... once they could corner her/activate Sebastian's ranged attack.)
  • Fiametta: Can she loose the horribly unlikely to do anything except cycle a huge chunk of your deck "BURN!" and get back her old "It Burns!" trait? (Just like DS Fiametta) Or some other 2nd activation token ability (seriously these need a keyword, I have a fondness for Relentless Activation :) ) that doesn't require flipping a whole lot of cards hoping to hit a magic combo and or draining your hand dry.
  • Academy Guard: If you don't spend the 2 points to have their Upgrade their Regeneration is useless without going out of faction as Doctrine have no units with a Heal for other units.
  • Novitiates: Their trait for the start of their turn needs to be on the front of their card. Having invested in their Upgrade I spent the game looking at it wishing it was not something I spent 1 point on. The sheer amount of deck manipulation a Kisa Cadre has made it irrelevant. Perhaps with other Knights it will matter more.
  • DS Zineda: Melee 1-1 is problematic on a character with a strong Melee attack. Should be 2-1. The text explaining she automatically disengages for Shadowblade is redundant. I think Shadowblade's press is problematic (as already mentioned) and should be replaced or changed to your own deck or removed.

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June 27th, 2017, 1:07 pm
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I second the idea that that Knights should be able to take a hit for their Cypher. Either give them {cypher name} Officer, or if you want to really reinforce the idea that there is a link between the two, work it into Cypher Bond and allow the Knight to optionally Soak some damage regardless of proximity.

"Additionally, when a unit wants to move out of being engaged with one or more enemy units..." (Emphasis mine). It's buried in the middle of the first paragraph, and I read it as meaning one flip 3, regardless of how many enemy units are engaged. I agree that the Engagement rules section needs cleanup for clarity. "...then they may move out of being engaged from any or all enemy units." Adding the italicized wording would help to make the section clear. (Dunno why you'd want to stay engaged to some, but I don't see an intent that forces you to break all engagement if you flip, either.)
And it still needs clear rules for how a squad deals with being the rope in a tug-of-war between distinct enemy units.

My understanding is that Cadre Abilities are now only in effect as long as the Knight that grants them is in play.

I think Nice Kitty prevents Hero Shielding from working if Scratch is the only minion that would otherwise be a target. This is a case of the specific rule on a card overruling the general rule from the book.

Obsidian-Crane wrote:
On defences no unit should be paying more Esper for a defence than the defence offers in effect.
What exactly do you mean? That Shielding 2 should only ever cost 2? How do you reconcile this with the variable damage reduction provided by Guard? And any given value of shielding will always be better than the same value of block, since shielding still allows armor flips; Block also presents the same issue as Guard in this case since Block currently allows for additional armor effects to be added in (ie Protection).
Or that all instances of Shielding 2 should cost the same (I agree here, see Hatriya Warriors vs Berserkers for an example of the current imbalance).

I agree with the concern over SSP's damage. Having a unit or two (DS Jacob, Austrician, etc) with high damage makes sense, but the current stats don't really seem to have much of a trade-off for their high armor. Dropping their speed seems more of a handicap than slightly reducing their damage potential. Frighteningly the Swordsworn have base damage of 5 on their melee, giving them potential damage of 14, and usually at least 7 thanks to their starting squad size. Compare them to the Berserkers, who's melee damage starts at 2, gets no bonus damage from extra models at minimum squad size, and is more expensive to recruit at that size, and is more fragile (larger target, less health). It's laughable.

I also agree Fiametta's BURN! is much to situational compared to most other 2+ activation token triggers. I've noticed we have "Relentless Assault" for generic melee attack choice, and "Sustained Fire" for ranged attack choice. Why not something like "Magical Powerhouse" for psychic abilities?


June 27th, 2017, 2:46 pm
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If Nice Kitty prevents Hero Shielding for Kisa, I think I would like to see that tweaked.

I agree that being slow is bad for SSP, especially if melee is their primary attack.
I disagree about Berserkers vs Swordsworn in terms of damage, however in a match up where they start undamaged the Swordsworn are favoured unless the Berserker has the Upgrade. But it's not their Damage that makes them favoured it's the ability to have defence 4. (This is why I've been throwing Noh at SSP.)

On defences:
Guard is hard to cost at the moment, because it's hard to understand what Attacks cost for their damage. But if it's 2 Esper for 5 damage (as a base) it should be 3 Esper for Guard.

Shielding should cost the same as the Shielding value as a base. (Keep in mind currently Block adds cover to its effect, making it superior to Shielding when units are deployed carefully.)

Guard and Shielding have their effect increased by Armor, so increasing the cost by 1/2 the Armor value of the unit rounded down works as a starting point for testing (if its some how too effective try rounded up).

--------------
On a new note:

After much consideration I would very much like to see the following changes happen:
Kasaro To's Murder Spree be changed to the text of Marikan To's Blood in the Water. This is a much better approximation of how Kasaro To worked in 1E.
Marikan To be have Blood in the Water changed to Know the Foe: When an enemy unit is attacked by a Friendly Unit with a Blood token reduce the defence value against the attack by 1.
Alternatively give Piercing 2 with the Blood Token if reducing defence by 1 is considered 2 strong.

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June 27th, 2017, 11:13 pm
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My point about the comparison with Swordsworn vs Berserkers was not who would win in a fight, but what the unit gives you in terms of their base recruitment cost and their damage potential. Compared to any of the other 1e squads, the Swordsworn have the highest melee damage output potential, their melee attack is among the cheapest, and arguably they have the best press by cost and effect. And they have a solid ranged attack and higher defense than their counterparts. Sure, their upgrade's current cost is prohibitively high, but they really don't need it to be a threat, either.

For your suggested change to Marikan To, it sounds like you want her to grant Precision to units with Blood tokens? I think that might be a hair strong, as it is generally easy for Noh to keep Blood tokens on their units, especially against the squishier factions. I know I'd personally be very frustrated if my opponent's cadre basically stopped my ability to flip for defense (since less than half of the non-knight units currently statted have more than 1 for their melee defense). Overall I would like to see new abilities tried for some of the Knights, and I agree with your assessment that Kasaro To's current ability can lead to gameplay that has much more risk than reward.


June 28th, 2017, 12:42 am
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Pitting them against each other is a quick way to look at value. Incidentally at 7 points and up the advantage swings towards the Berserkers.

And yes Marikan To giving precision with Blood Tokens. Keep in mind Precision itself makes it minimum 1. (I knew there was something that did that as a keyword, but couldn't think of it this morning).

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June 28th, 2017, 5:33 am
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As the only change from last week was the removal of the armor "pay from hand" option, I'm just going to keep posting in this thread for the moment.

Finally got a game in on Saturday with the guy I first played 2.1 with, and this was his second game of RK. In general he isn't an experienced war gamer either.

Factions: SSP (Champion) vs Doctrine. I played the Doctrine.
Size: 50 pts.
Duration: 2.5 hours (basically no rules look up this time).
Result: Doctrine win 6-5 (due to player experience).
Terrain:
Image

Cadres:

Sebastian and Rook RK
Isabeau Durand
Navarre Hauer
2 Paragons (Upgraded)
3 Swordsworn

Kisa and Scratch RK
DS Zineda
DS Bang Bang
3 Academy Guard (Upgraded)
3 Novitiates

Questions
  1. When Rook swaps position with another model via Castle:
    a) does the model have to occupy all of Rook's base space or can it occupy only part of it?
    b) can he swap with models with a larger base size? (We've been assuming yes, but given (a) it occurs to ask for larger bases because then questions of where and how those larger models and Rook interact comes up.)
    Note I think both these questions can be answered by placing a token beside the target model, the target model then moves in base contact with Rook and then he moves to the token.
  2. Models on elevated terrain can be positioned so their base over hangs. So what happens when there is another model below them that is:
    a) smaller in size than the terrain?
    b) the same size as the terrain?
    c) larger than the terrain?
    This also comes back to engaging models that are on a lower elevation. A long running issue for RK. The 2" engagement should extend based on size to allow for vertical engagement and stop the 1E issue of being unable to engage models you couldn't touch base with.

General Comments
The game flowed smoothly and all went well. The opponent commented that it was "fun" at the end of the game and he was happy with the overall experience. (Despite some rules issues at the end related to the positioning over a model over other models and vertical engagement.)

Ultimately I won because he made a play mistake and didn't activate Navarre next to an Objective before I killed him. This was likely partly my fault for not being clear about how VP was scored from an Objective.

The more I play the less relevant most AoEs feel. Basically the AoE's seem balanced around the 2.0 means of removing them (activate a Cypher with LoS and then use an action and cards from hand to get rid of it), which was balanced against the cost of setting the AoE up. Now any unit can remove an AoE as long as it is in it, in theory this would make the unit subject to the AoE but many AoEs do not have an effect unless they are actually operating. This makes AoEs incredibly expensive to operate (and is also why Healing Aura and presses that add healing are better than healing actions) because they cost cards (from hand is worst, but even from deck is bad), cost tempo (you took an action) and many will not have their effect. Yes we have been able to set up situations where specific AoEs become very effective, but the general observation is that casting an AoE is helping your opponent win and that you are better off not spending the cards and just moving your units if you cannot activate an attack. Because using those in faction colours to activate an AoE means you do not have them to defend or attack with other units in better positions. So better to reposition and keep the cards. A solution to this is to make it so that all AoEs effect the unit that dismisses them until the end of that unit's activation, or alternatively the removal of an AoE goes back to at least being an Action.


Unit Comments

Sebastian: He hits really hard for a model that is so hard to kill.

Navarre and Paragons: Were again an effective team.

Iseabeau: Inexperience on my opponent's behalf reduced her effectiveness, but even healing aura 2 and her limited heal off her melee attack kept Navarre and the Paragons alive for another attack.

Swordsworn: 1 little Swordsworn managed to get off his Knockback at the perfect time and crippled my plans in the early game. These guys are very tough with reasonable attacks. I think they actually set a good baseline for line troops.

Kisa: Used her ability with strict timing this time and she was still a huge benefit to the Doctrine list. Very happy with her. She was once again crushed by Sebastian, though it was Iseabeau who landed the killing blow. Will be moving on to Vaultus most likely now.

DS Bang Bang: She seemed ok. More testing needed here.

DS Zineda: her Shadowblade press just doesn't seem worth investing in.

Academy Guard: the 5Y cost of their upgrade meant that I wasn't able to use it when it would have mattered that I have access to it (ie when I could have killed the last Paragon) and so it ended up being useless. This unit still hits hard, but frankly I will be passing on the upgrade at this time. Also now I'm paying more attention, their Regeneration trait is entirely useless as it currently stands with no in Faction healing at all (they originally had access to it because they had Lifeleach themselves and Delphyne was a Creation Master and Togan and Cecilia were Creation Initiaties) unless you go and recruit the Rhouss Fixer minion they can never be healed currently. It would be good to see Reeve go back to Lifeleach at least.

Novitiates: Could probably use 1 more point of damage on their attack to be more in line with the Swordsworn, but are otherwise a sound unit. Will probably be experimenting with running 2 units of them.

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July 2nd, 2017, 12:58 am
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I'm wary to see squad damage values go up. All of your games to date have included SSP. While they have their own balance issues, I don't want the game's damage balance to be set against them. The hard thing with balancing squads is: At what squad size is the unit balanced for? Balance for minimum size, and the maximum becomes quite lethal. Balance for maximum, and the minimum size is really only useful for hero shielding or going after fragile targets. If they are balanced at a mid-point, how do you make that obvious to players? I don't have a good solution for this, but given some of the advantages that squads have, I don't want to see them balanced to a point where taking two 3-4 model squads is inherently better or worse than taking one 8 model squad - both options should represent viable choices depending on a chosen strategy. This does suggest that the balance should tip toward the smaller squad size, but not so much that the increased cost-per-model is not worth taking a larger squad.

I agree with your outline regarding AoEs. For me, the best option is to have their removal cost an action. If you word it so an AoE always affects the unit cleansing it, that still means many healing or utility AoEs will never get a chance to work. A straight debuff to stats won't matter to your opponent as long as the cleanse clears the effect by the end of the turn. I do think there is something to be said about smart AoE placement affecting your enemy's plans - either causing them to avoid an area or pulling them out of position to clear it. But the current game tempo absolutely suggests placing most AoEs is a losing proposition. I would rather have my opponent pay the same cost in tempo to clear an AoE over having them possibly leave a unit open to a counter-attack.


July 3rd, 2017, 1:37 pm
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I think one of the numbers that bares testing still is maximum squad size.

I understand the reasoning behind the idea of size 10 squads, but I think that given the cost for most squads keeping the 5 model cap and looking at the number of activations in larger games is important. Because yes +9 damage becomes a concern.

I'm certainly not ready to start playing a 75 or 100 point game yet where those numbers would actually become an issue.

That said I still think the Novitiates should have 4 damage base and the Swordsworn should have 3, unless the Novitiates defence action gets a lot more reliable.

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July 4th, 2017, 4:02 am
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Joined: September 9th, 2012, 1:25 am
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Location: Australia
Got another game in tonight using the same lists as last game. This time the Doctrine won 6-2 because I'm an idiot and attacked Scratch instead of Kisa and messed up my deployment horribly.

Terrain:
Image
Questions:

Does Armor work on Backlash? (Played yes after discussion earlier today on FB. Rules in general support this and it seems a case for repetition for clarity.)

Does Cover/Protection work on Backlash? (Played yes because it adds

Did not come up in the game but in recent FB discussion:
What happens if forced movement moves a unit off elevated terrain in such a way that it would fall onto another unit?

What happens if forced movement moves a unit into another unit that is larger than the elevated terrain?

General Feedback:
Game outcome amounts to "I played badly" rather than anything particular about the Cadres.

Yesterday on FB there was much discussion of Objectives and the point was raised that perhaps it would be advantageous to have a paper craft set of 3 (hexagonal) Objectives 3" tall to assist players with using them correctly. (After all I've seen mistakes with models moving onto them by Ninja Division people in 2 games now, and people trying to draw LoS through them is a common problem.)

Units:
Kisa RK is Size 3, she should be Size 4 the same as Sebastian. I believe given their 80mm bases the minimum size for Relic Knights should be 4.

On Size I believe it would be advantageous to have a diagram at the front of the book that illustrates sizes and draws the corollary for height in inches. The size section should then refer to terrain as well for using said chart. (Or the chart in the terrain section.)

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July 5th, 2017, 2:14 pm
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