Soda Pop Miniatures
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2 Player Starter Concerns
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13864
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Author:  Major Glitch [ August 14th, 2017, 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

I haven't been able to get a new player to try this yet, but I full back the idea of clear, step-by-step examples of play that follow the text. It would probably also be good to have a "goal" for each game (1. Win the duel 2. Win the duel 3. Defeat the enemy hero. 4. Score X points from an objective.) And while I was able to easily follow and understand the text, it would probably be easier if it was broken up into discrete chunks.

My other thought is that it could be useful to have placement shadows for the terrain and units, to help players set things up in a balanced way; shadows will also allow you to suggest certain moves that can be easily demonstrated in the rules/examples.

Author:  Obsidian-Crane [ August 16th, 2017, 3:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

So I asked the father to read my report an respond to your question Justin and aside from mention of the LoS rules (which I'll post over where were discussing that most recently so as not to conflate) this is what he had to say;

Yes a step by step associated with the rules.

See FFG's learn to play guides as an example. FFGs Learn to Play books are literally that.

Just the key rules you need and step thorugh to play a game and get up and running. Then they have the separate rules reference that you can dig into to fine tune things likle timing etc, the full rules which you can understand better and have context for after the Learn to Play guide.

The rules for their boardgame / miniatures Star Wars Rebellion does this really well my two (11 & 13 years) got up and running playing that game themselves with no help from me using the FFG Play Through book and it is a reasonably complex game. They got a few things wrong but figured it out and finetuned by checking the Full Rules Reference. Important thing they had the context down and understood the broad game process and mechanics from the excellent Learn to Play guide, that then enabled them to quickly fine tune more precisely with the more detailed rules. Miss 13 also figured out FFgs CCG Arkham Horror basically herself and expalined it to me due to the Learn to Play Guide book.

------

My suggestion go teach the game to someone new using the scenarios you have outlined (Game 1, Game 2, Game 3, Game 4) and record the audio of the game. This will then give you a very clear set of things you do in explaining the game to someone and the order that you do things. (Ideally do this multiple times.) That should then provide you good guidance on what to put in the steps and what order they need to be in.

This is an area that I do know a bit more about (11 years teaching high school science) and in honesty much of my prior review of the games was based on what I felt was the logical point to introduce various rules to the game as an experienced player rather than thinking about it from a purely instructional perspective. Since the game on Saturday I have considered it more from the instructional perspective and a detailed step by step using a lot more pictures is the approach I would now start from.

Forget all the anatomy of a card stuff.

Explain what an Object is, a Miniature is and a Token is, then explain pretty much everything else as it comes up in play using pictures.

This is different to how I tackle it with a person across from me, because I can answer questions dynamically, but with the book as a pure instructor I feel those key concepts need to be defined up front as they form the foundation of many subsequent rules. Then each part of a card can be called on as needed adding more detail as needed.

Author:  Mirgroht [ August 17th, 2017, 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

Minor issue (don't know if mentioned elsewhere)

Sundown Enforcers attack is called Covering fire
Bang Bang support action is called Covering fire

Might be better and less confusing for new players to give them different names, especially as they do completely different things.

Also, Cupid is still Esper Draw 1/3 rather than 1/4

Miss Kaylee still has Heavy on card

Author:  ND_Justin [ August 25th, 2017, 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

I'm still testing this with people who have not played. No update to the text this week, but you guys will have something next week.

As the starter is the only rules content required for wave 1 delivery, it is my primary testing concern, followed by the units listed in last week's update.

Author:  ND_Justin [ September 1st, 2017, 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

Mirgroht wrote:
Minor issue (don't know if mentioned elsewhere)

Sundown Enforcers attack is called Covering fire
Bang Bang support action is called Covering fire

Might be better and less confusing for new players to give them different names, especially as they do completely different things.

Also, Cupid is still Esper Draw 1/3 rather than 1/4

Miss Kaylee still has Heavy on card


Cupid should be 1/4

Kaylee should not have Heavy.

Names corrected.

There are also a number of wording and clarity updates.

Unfortunately, with most of the team away at PAX, I'm not certain if a kickstarter update is being posted or not (I don't have access there). But we're paying attention and continuing to progress on this.

Author:  ND_Justin [ September 8th, 2017, 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2 Player Starter Concerns

Obsidian-Crane wrote:
So I asked the father to read my report an respond to your question Justin and aside from mention of the LoS rules (which I'll post over where were discussing that most recently so as not to conflate) this is what he had to say;

Yes a step by step associated with the rules.

See FFG's learn to play guides as an example. FFGs Learn to Play books are literally that.

Just the key rules you need and step thorugh to play a game and get up and running. Then they have the separate rules reference that you can dig into to fine tune things likle timing etc, the full rules which you can understand better and have context for after the Learn to Play guide.

The rules for their boardgame / miniatures Star Wars Rebellion does this really well my two (11 & 13 years) got up and running playing that game themselves with no help from me using the FFG Play Through book and it is a reasonably complex game. They got a few things wrong but figured it out and finetuned by checking the Full Rules Reference. Important thing they had the context down and understood the broad game process and mechanics from the excellent Learn to Play guide, that then enabled them to quickly fine tune more precisely with the more detailed rules. Miss 13 also figured out FFgs CCG Arkham Horror basically herself and expalined it to me due to the Learn to Play Guide book.

------

My suggestion go teach the game to someone new using the scenarios you have outlined (Game 1, Game 2, Game 3, Game 4) and record the audio of the game. This will then give you a very clear set of things you do in explaining the game to someone and the order that you do things. (Ideally do this multiple times.) That should then provide you good guidance on what to put in the steps and what order they need to be in.

This is an area that I do know a bit more about (11 years teaching high school science) and in honesty much of my prior review of the games was based on what I felt was the logical point to introduce various rules to the game as an experienced player rather than thinking about it from a purely instructional perspective. Since the game on Saturday I have considered it more from the instructional perspective and a detailed step by step using a lot more pictures is the approach I would now start from.

Forget all the anatomy of a card stuff.

Explain what an Object is, a Miniature is and a Token is, then explain pretty much everything else as it comes up in play using pictures.

This is different to how I tackle it with a person across from me, because I can answer questions dynamically, but with the book as a pure instructor I feel those key concepts need to be defined up front as they form the foundation of many subsequent rules. Then each part of a card can be called on as needed adding more detail as needed.


You should be getting an update on the two player starter today.

I haven't added examples in yet, as I want to finalize all the core text first. But that's the plan for next week. Just FYI

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