Soda Pop Miniatures

Community Concern List
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Author:  Major Glitch [ May 25th, 2017, 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Community Concern List

This topic is intended to be a master list of issues raised by the community. Please keep discussion about specific topics in their own threads; this is simply meant to be a list that we can use to track outstanding concerns. I will attempt to keep this list up to date daily as issues are brought up in their own threads.

Author:  Major Glitch [ May 25th, 2017, 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  General Questions/Concerns

- Some units cannot currently generate their faction tokens. Cyphers had been given the ability to generate these tokens on units for a short window; these abilities have since been removed and the issue still stands that some units will not be able to generate their faction tokens.

- Suggestion to rename faction abilites/tokens to use the same name.

- Concern has been expressed about the lower-than-average hero activation values for SNC's Cypher esper draw.

- Concerns over Starter Box units viability in general use. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13864

- Concerns that allowing deck manipulation effects (Doctrine, primarily) to be used on an opponent's deck will cause more frustration than is worthwhile.

- There is inconsistency in how effects that have a player draw or discard are worded; some say "{unit name} draws X cards", some say "unit's controller draws X cards".

- Suggestion to change Support action listing to put [Support] before the skill type, so that it's clear the ability is not limited by the restrictions that attacks are.

- Do "begins their activation", "start of their activation" "gain an activation token" and "receives an activation token" all have the same timing?

Author:  Major Glitch [ May 25th, 2017, 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Mechanic Specific Questions/Concerns

- Request to consider wording that takes a unit's size into account when units are on different elevations.

Line of Sight
- Concerns over unintentionally odd scenarios that arise from completely ignoring terrain a unit is on.
- Do units have LoS to themselves (See comments below)

Proposed Abilities
- Reinforce: Sets minimum value for armor (if flipped value is less than X, it becomes X).

Impair and Bolster
- Review all units to ensure any effects that should end after action are given proper Impair/Bolster keyword. (Keeping this one a general reminder)

Activation Tokens and Triggers
- Some units (ie Noviates) have abilities that trigger when getting activation tokens/activating. Move to front of card, possibly change to work like other abilities that trigger from second+ activation token.
- Consider adding keyword for the abilities that trigger when a unit gets second+ activation token (makes them easier to discuss, at the least, and would remove confusion between those abilities and abilities like the novitiates that happen every time they get a token.)

- Cohesion: Should the wording describing cohesion distances be changed from "or" (3 in horizontal or 6 in vertical) to "and"? Is this rule necessary when considering the rule regarding measuring diagonally?

Faction Tokens
- Balance with Void Knights and their related factions, especially SNC, feels off - SNC tokens are hard to get, and SNC Knights have powerful abilities to reflect this, but Void Knights abilities are more in line with the other factions. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13978

Author:  Major Glitch [ May 25th, 2017, 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit Specific Questions/Concerns

Multiple units missing skill type for support action. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13875

Black Diamond
Codebreaker v9.0
- Doesn't have a 'Unique' tag. Is this intentional?
- Defense action does not have a static ability (only generates armor)
Black Dragons
- Fortify Position; does this create an AoE that grants cover with the Protection trait or does it make cover in the AoE gain the Protection trait if it didn't have it? (I believe it's the former.)
CSM Alex-117
- Has an attack (Rifle Butt) with the same name as other BD Units, but with different effects.
- Should Dark Vitality be [support]?
- Defense action listed as [armor].
Gaius Senzen
- Mind Audit: Please use "the enemy unit's Esper Draw" instead of "their Esper Draw".

Cerci Speed Circuit
Royal Wrecker
- Lack of defensive action without utilizing the AoE intentional?
- Crash Site should be a support?
Pit Crew
- Is Specialist Knowledge supposed to be a support action?
Bad Wolf
- Melee skill is 36-3.

Kisa (RK)
- Does Arcane Lore allow you to split up the three cards you see (and put two on top and one on the bottom, say)? See this post for suggested wording: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13983
- No defense (Supposed to be named/advanced novitiates, but they forgot how to defend themselves?)

Noh Empire
- Timing on Overrun and Belligerent?
Serpent Priestess
- What happens if a Priestess at 2 health pays 2 health to increase the damage on Sacrifice?
DS Rin Farrah
- Should Unseen Shot read "If DS Rin Farrah can claim cover from the target..."? (Like regular Rin Farrah)
- Unseen Shot is also an ability on the regular (Cerci) version of Rin, but with different cost and effects.

Candy (Relic Knight)
- Sugar Fueled should refer to Note tokens, not Scribble tokens.
Dan D. Starship
- Rocket Man: Does this automatically break engagement? I think this is technically a forced movement, but "Place Dan D. in contact with..." would be clearer than "Move Dan D. into contact with..."
Ayu Beat
- Custom Axe probably needs some clarification. Can I use it on a target that I know won't end the forced movement engaged to Ayu in order to simply move them? Similar abilities, like Charge, cannot be used if engagement won't occur after the movement. "This attack may target units that could be moved 4 inches to be engaged with Ayu Beat. If the target is not engaged with Ayu beat at the start of the attack, move the target 4 inches into engagement as part of the attack."
Miss Kaylee
- Has the same attack name as the Tonnerian Stalker, with different cost. Having different presses isn't as big of an issue, but could still result in mistakes during play.
Tonnerian Stalker
- Jury Rigged Power Armor: Can the wording be changed to "Is declared the target of an attack" to be more clear about the timing of the hand check for armor gain? (Or if it is checked at a different point, that should be made clear.)
Rhouss Fixer
- No upgrade option for a model with multiple build options?
Cordelia Clean Avatar of the ?
- No cadre ability?
- No cadre ability?

Shattered Sword Paladins
- Does Thruster Blast automatically break engagement? (See also Navarre Hauer)
DS Jacob
- Does Redeployment (support action) automatically break engagment? (If so, "Place" should be used instead of "move")
Isabeau Durand
- Is the heal on Blessed Blade supposed to act like the Heal on QK Jeanne Romee's Armor of Faith (ie not being able to target the unit originating the heal?) If so, "a unit" needs to become "another unit".
Swordsworn Command
- On Banner of Stocism, "less health or models", models is redundant, as a squad that has fewer models than at the start the game with will have less health than they started the game with.
- Defense action typo (Golster)

Star Nebula Corsairs
- Defense action refers to exhaustion token.
- Flipping orange to draw with Chanty feels bad.
Calico Cate (RK)
- Joyful Anarchy and Bombs Away fave some pretty interesting implications that will take quite a bit of examination to resolve in-game.
Calico Cate (QK)
- Dual Shot presses refer to a different ability.
- Evacuation is listed as [armor] (Should be [defense])
- Should Evacuation have feint instead of the current wording?
Iron Chef
- Should Dinner Bell be a [support] Buff action? (Then it wouldn't need the "can only target friendly units" wording, though it would allow the ability to work when engaged, which it currently doesn't)
- Hold Together: has an extraneous "the" before Rustbucket in the action description. (It doesn't follow the wording format of any other unit.)
DS Isabeau Durand
- Survival of the Fittest: Why not just say "Flip 1 per 3 damage marked on this unit"?
- Red Tail: Is this intended to automatically break engagement?
- Unstable Nitro should mirror the wording on the Black Dragons' Fortify Position in regard to it's timing ("Before the first activation").
- Whirlpool: Does this ability force a discard, only compelling if the opponent cannot discard 2 for a unit, or is it meant to given the opponent a choice? "For each enemy model affected, its controller may discard 2 cards at random, If they do not, that model suffers compel 6." (It seems really powerful if the former, but could be interpreted that way.)

Amelial, Herald of the Void
- Clarification requested on Abyssal Portent ANSWERED
Amelial, Avatar of the Void
- Is her defense action correct, in that it has no additional/static damage reduction?

Author:  ND_Justin [ May 25th, 2017, 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

This is definitely appreciated. But I would suggest waiting till after tomorrow's update as it may alleviate/change some of these concerns.

Author:  Major Glitch [ May 25th, 2017, 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

Thank you for the heads up, I will hold off on further updates to this thread until then.

Author:  Major Glitch [ May 26th, 2017, 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

Any chance you can make this sticky?

Author:  ND_Justin [ May 26th, 2017, 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

Major Glitch wrote:
Any chance you can make this sticky?


Author:  ND_Justin [ June 5th, 2017, 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

As it is a new week please make new replies for any issues found. I may make notes for myself here too:

1) Pit Crew and Betty both have an ability named Mechanic that function differently

2) Broken squads should not be able to take attack or support actions

3) Consider allowing follow up move after disengaging

Author:  Major Glitch [ June 6th, 2017, 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

I've removed items that have been addressed, and added in as many new concerns as I could find to the top posts. Additional items include:
- Specific LoS suggestions Justin has commented favorably on.
- Additional questions regarding Shielding (requested change to ability description for passive use, timing questions with regard to interaction with Guard)
- Impair and Bolster universal implementation
- Block and Reinforce Suggestions.
- Support Action clarification/changes.
- Concerns over faction token generation.
- Requested keyword for abilities that trigger when getting a second+ activation token.
- Move all abilities that trigger from getting an activation token to the front of the card. Possibly consolidate all abilities to trigger only on second+ token to reduce potential confusion.

Author:  Major Glitch [ June 10th, 2017, 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

After a discussion with Obsidian-Crane regarding the June 9 rules, the below issues are things we feel need addressing:

- Feint should be worded to make clear if a follow-up move is allowed if the ability is used on the active player's turn/unit.
- Knockback: Is the token placed from the unit's controller's pool, or a temporary token that will disappear when the tokens are refreshed at cleanup? (Personal vote is for the latter, so players don't inadvertently refresh their opponent's pool)
- Cyphers have contradictory rules for recruitment, p17 says they are forced pairs, p27 says knights may take any version of the appropriate cypher.
- Tow: How does this interact with engagement? Does the active unit need to disengage, even though the target (enemy) model is coming along? (assuming the target is the only model the active unit is engaged with)
- Dan D. Starship has no inherent passive armor, so the defense action (Block) is pointless without the press (unless you have armor from another source.) Even if this is intentional, it probably isn't something that is intuitive to a player.
- Do units have LoS to themselves? This is important for support actions such as heal.
- Azi has No Escape by Lakmi doesn't? Seems odd to us, even if intentional.
- Azi's first ability should probably just be called "Hurl" since it can work on all unit types...
- Azi's AoE should have a comma instead of a period in the ability description.
- Paragons still have no Defense Action.
- Pythons defense action still only grants Armor (no static defense)
- Field Medic (with a big force shield) has no defense action.
- The AoE rules that refer to Collateral Damage still have wording that suggests that a Defense Action may be taken. Suggest defenses get defined as passive/inherent and active, then simply state that only passive defenses may be used against collateral (passive) damage. (That is less confusing than saying defense actions may not be taken, as some could interpret that as no defenses at all.)
- LoS rules for ignoring terrain you are standing on still create some crazy situations. viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13782#p91664
- Engagement might be easier to understand if rewritten. Obsidian-Crane suggests a rewrite in three parts:
1. Define an engagement zone and how units interact with it.
2. Define how it affects what actions the engaged units may take.
3. Define how units disengage.

Author:  Major Glitch [ June 19th, 2017, 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

Lists above updated, with a large number of issues coming from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=13909&p=91996#p91996

Author:  Major Glitch [ June 26th, 2017, 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

June 26: Numerous issues on units from all factions added to unit list, concerns about armor added from playtest reports, and concerns about deck manipulation and frustration added to topics above.

Author:  Major Glitch [ July 10th, 2017, 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

A couple of mechanical changes added to the list from Obsidian-Crane's report. I will update the units after the new stats are released.

Author:  Major Glitch [ July 17th, 2017, 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Community Concern List

Questions from a few new units added (Soliel, Gabe, Cordelia Avatar, Pit Crew, Gaius) Really appreciate the callouts for timing on checking triggers and paying costs.

Author:  Michaelhouts [ July 14th, 2018, 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Community Concern List

What about the free PDF supplements for both Hoard and Tiamat, that list all the magic items and monsters that are not listed in the back of either book? Are they still available from the website?

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