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 SDE Crossover, let's design it 
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Minion
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Just for a heads up, taken on board all of Goblinmages comments cause they are all valid.

Added skull values, changed sheriffs "back up" into a single deputy and also changed the name and range of the Marshalls special attack.

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April 30th, 2017, 3:16 pm
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Minion
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It looks good so far. One question I do have is are these designed with the FK rules or with the newer beta rules. This could make a big difference with all of the changes. One major change was status effects lasting only one turn now. I think the rule changes might be a reason that people are hesitant to help.

I am not a Legends backer (couldn't afford it at the time) and I am not up to date on the newest rules. I have no idea how much the new rules have changed the game. I usually use the Lootimeter rules so I don't know how valid my play testing results would be. I will try to help in any way I can. Keep up the hard work.


April 30th, 2017, 4:00 pm
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Minion
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GoblinMage wrote:
It looks good so far. One question I do have is are these designed with the FK rules or with the newer beta rules. This could make a big difference with all of the changes. One major change was status effects lasting only one turn now. I think the rule changes might be a reason that people are hesitant to help.

I am not a Legends backer (couldn't afford it at the time) and I am not up to date on the newest rules. I have no idea how much the new rules have changed the game. I usually use the Lootimeter rules so I don't know how valid my play testing results would be. I will try to help in any way I can. Keep up the hard work.


I don't like the idea of status lasting a single turn, in all honesty, think it makes them pointless (especially fire, you might as well just remove the status effect from the game and just make all fire attack do +1 heart in damage, it would be the exact same effect in-game *rolls eyes*). Still this was based off FK as I stopped following 2 editions beta closely after it became clear that the game being a minimum of a year late wasn't going to happen. I was pretty on it until a few months ago however so it's been considered to some degree while writing. You can access all the Kickstarter updates without being a backer I'm pretty certain btw, so you can always check out the current edition of the beta rules.

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April 30th, 2017, 5:37 pm
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Minion
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I am of the same opinion about the status effect rule change. It takes some of the monsters and really nerfs them. I will try and see if I can make some time to playtest, but it might be a while.


May 1st, 2017, 1:57 am
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Denizen
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I wanted this to be a community effort, experience or not!

You never get better at something until you do it.

My work life has been rather overwhelming of late making it hard for me to even read the forums. I will read through what you posted today and offer any thoughts I have. I for one am glad you took the initiative to post this.


May 2nd, 2017, 1:46 pm
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AzureKnight wrote:
I wanted this to be a community effort, experience or not!

You never get better at something until you do it.

My work life has been rather overwhelming of late making it hard for me to even read the forums. I will read through what you posted today and offer any thoughts I have. I for one am glad you took the initiative to post this.


Thanks, man, it's genuinely appreciated. Can't wait to hear your feedback and suggestions.

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May 3rd, 2017, 9:24 pm
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now that my laptop is re-formatted due to super nasty malware stealing all my sensitive data, i can get back to installing GIMP and do some more custom cards


May 4th, 2017, 12:13 am
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Lizardman wrote:
now that my laptop is re-formatted due to super nasty malware stealing all my sensitive data, i can get back to installing GIMP and do some more custom cards


Awesome! You're the last piece of the puzzle, all we really need now is some more critical analysis of the rules I made like I said I'm no expert. I bavn't even played super dungeon explore once this year. Still, I've had plenty of experience making home brews for other systems or making a couple of my own. Just need some feedback.

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May 4th, 2017, 6:59 am
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I played a quick game with them today. I noticed a couple of things that need to be fixed. On the abilities using action points they need to be specified if they are red or blue actions and which stat they use (they need sword and arrow icons in the definitions). I am pretty sure I understand them, but others may be confused. I assume that the Take them down ability stacks just like mob, correct?

I had to play both the heroes and consul, but tried to remain impartial. Unfortunately I also rolled really good for the monsters and not so hot for the heroes. The deputies controlled the board. Their regular attacks with the take them down bonus was brutal. The shotgun ability (sorry I can't remember the name) with the sweep slaughtered the heroes. I need their attacks might need to be lowered slightly. The Marshal should probably spawn according to the MMC and not every third turn. He probably also needs his hearts dropped to 3 or 4. The number of deputies and sheriffs might need to be adjusted (there are only 7 deputies in the base set. Also their needs to be 2 marshals if this a paired spawnpoint.

I hope I am not nitpicking too much. I hope this helps. Keep up the good work on this idea.


May 4th, 2017, 8:03 pm
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Has Adelon Bold Thin like, literally completely gone from all of the internets? I can't seem to find the "thin" version which i am pretty sure is the correct font, also getting used to a new OS (Peppermint, linux ubuntu based) is a little jarring to say the least, the templates a re gonna need all the text re-styled, but we'll get there


May 4th, 2017, 9:10 pm
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Minion
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Some interesting ideas, but have to ask: how do you imagine the robots look? I imagine them as almost clockwork drones, rattling along and spouting crackly lines like "Halt! Halt! Halt!". Or do you see them as more advanced and unique, with individual personalities ad such? Just to figure out how they act and maneuver.

Some small comments (not done any playtesting so its all theory, will try incorporate GoblinMages points):

-Maybe rename the Deputies knockdown ability something simpler like "Apprehend", gives a clearer idea of what it is (I assume its the Deputy tackling or wrestling the hero to the ground)
-"Take em down" does seem pretty powerful, and almost forces the Consul to only shoot with everything they have vs use any other abilities. I assume its the 'bots all co-ordinating their fire onto one target to overwhelm them?
-If you drop "TED", maybe give the deputies something like "uplink" or "Network" as a 1 cost support, range 5-6, beneficial (little blue flag) and it adds 1B to targets next DEX roll. represent the Deputies being more drones under control by the central Sheriffs/Marshals
-Change "I need backup" from a spawn to teleport a deputy beside the Sherrif, same concept but doesnt break the flow of the game by adding extra spawns
-Isn't "Stop in the name of the Law" just a more powerful "Does not compute"? But at the same cost, but I guess mitigated by the lower number of Sheriffs that will see the board. Still would like to see some variety in the skills between bots. Maybe given his title, maybe something like Burst 2 and Bane or Hex as he blares out warnings and shines spot lights on the heroes?


Will try look over the rest later, need to get curry on!


May 5th, 2017, 10:21 am
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Thanks you so much for the feedback. All really good stuff. I will look at all of this properly in relation to my original concept and post a fresh set of rules to tonight.

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May 6th, 2017, 10:22 am
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Ooops, forgot to look at the other half of the rules!

-Well as GoblinMage posted, you only get 7 Deputies in the base game (probably wont affect most of us who KS and are getting extras, but not for those who by retail) so maybe drop the numbers to 6 Deputies, 4 Sheriffs and 2 Marshals.
-Double Barrel is just way overpowered, you knockback somebody 4 squares (almost every heroes move) so if they are slowed somehow you could keep melee heroes out of range indefinitely. Maybe change the Sweep to Lance 3-4 (represent the Sheriff unloading both barrels to fill a hallway with Buck-las? Lasck-shot? Las-buck? and call it "Unload" or such).....does overlap the Marshals rifle a bit then though! If you wanna keep the Knockback (you mean Push?) drop it to just 1 or 2 at most, 4 squares could be about 12-15 feet...if a gun throws you that far back, your landing as a liquefied meat-sack by the sheer force required!
-I like the concept of the spawn-point Marshals, especially given there is no other mini to use out of the box. Interesting design to have a spawn move about....but how do you solve the easy ploy of just running the Marshals into a corner until the boss appears? Also what aura could he provide, maybe something to incentivize keeping him on the front-lines supporting the posse?
-Agree that maybe drop his hearts to 4, also not sure about the heal on spawn, is that common for others? Not 100% on the latest ruleset! If he is too weak maybe give him "Tough" (during upkeep remove one heart) to help beef him up, though I would prefer spawn points had very little access to healing, makes each wound a little step closer for the heroes. Guess it plays back into the way this posse operates: do the Deputies go chase up the crims, Sheriffs providing extra brawn (or would that be something like "extra tungsten") & close fire support while the Marshal observes from afar and picks stragglers off with his rifle.
-Trusty Laser Rifle is a bit odd as that would be his main DEX attack anyways! I get that you have it as a large beam that cuts through a line of foes, but if you apply the changes to the Sheriffs shotgun this may need tweaking too. Possibly change it to "Charged Blast" and make it Burst 1 in place of Lance, as the Marshal fires off a shot that detonates an area?
-Justice is a nice concept: as the Deputies/Sheriffs pin the crims down, Marshal strolls up listing off their crimes and executes them with one powerful shot. Maybe drop range to 2-3 so the Marshal isnt sniping heroes with +1G from half the board away, also means he has to get into the fight and risk his spawn-pointness to get the high damage shots off. Maybe also drop the Hex/Bane as a 2R 1B 1G shot is powerful enough. Abilities usefulness is also diminished if the Sheriff doesn't have Knockdown too so if ya implement the other changes perhaps drop this to just 2 action pts (also an added trade-off for the shorter range).

Take what ya want from all these, or none and call it complete nonsense....your call :lol:


May 6th, 2017, 10:34 pm
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Danteire had some good suggestions. I think his ideas would help a lot. Hopefully others will add their ideas and suggestions. It is hard to know how to do a mobile spawnpoint when we haven't seen one yet. I am hoping that ND will give us some info on how they work.

The shotgun attack was too brutal in play testing. The deputies would line up at a bottleneck and concentrate their guns on the heroes. Two deputies side by side with the sweep of the shotgun wounded the heroes quicker than they could heal. I was wondering if the deputies might need their hearts dropped from three to two. I don't know if it was my rolling or what, but they seemed hard to kill at 3 hearts.

@Rainthezangoose: keep up the good work and don't get discouraged. It will be nice if we have SDE cards for our raiders when they come. I will try to do some more playtesting with Danteire's suggestion.


May 7th, 2017, 12:31 am
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GoblinMage wrote:
I was wondering if the deputies might need their hearts dropped from three to two. I don't know if it was my rolling or what, but they seemed hard to kill at 3 hearts.


I never even looked at their stats (too lazy to playtest, too lazy to even break out my other minion cards to compare) but yeah Deputies need to be 2 hearts, given there is only 10 monsters (12 with the Marshals) you need slightly beefier enemies but the most numerous still need to be fairly weak. Either 2 hearts and weak ARM or 1 heart and reasonable ARM.

Would consider weakening Deputies & bump them up to 8 minis but as stated above it leaves non-KS out in the cold.....or incentivize them to buy another set or one of the expansions :twisted:

Also realized last night the concept of minions hindering the heroes and the elite finishing them off is straight from the Billmen (cause Slow) and the Grobbit (big ol' axe!)......maybe I need to watch some Clint Eastwood films for inspiration......or just Blazing Saddles!


May 7th, 2017, 8:08 am
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UPDATE- railraiders lawbots SDE stats 2.0

--------------------------

Deputies (minion)
Move: 5
Action: 1
Hearts: 1
Skull: 1
:edit: Crystal Affinity: Citrine & Emerald

STR: 2B (sword 1)
ARM: 3B (shield)
WIL: 2B
Dex: 1R 1B (arrow 5)

Take them down!: If a deputy tries to use its special attack against a hero who has already had the same action used against them this turn add +1B (this can stack with multiple deputies)

Does not compute..your um...under arrest!: 1 action point (red action). range 2. STR VS STR knockdown.

-----------------------------

Sheriff (elite)
Move: 5
Action: 2
Hearts: 2
Skulls: 2
:edit: Crystal Affinity: Citrine & Emerald

STR: 1R 1B (sword 1)
ARM: 3B (shield)
WIL: 3B
Dex: 2R (arrow 5)

Initiate protocol execute Raiders: 1 action points (blue action): range 5, beneficial, up to two deputies get +1B dex until Sheriffs next activation. Can only be used once per this minions activation.

I need back up!: 1 action point (blue action): Teleport up to two deputies currently on the board within one space of the Sheriff.

Stop in the name of the law!: 1 action point (blue action), Range 5 Hex.

Double Barrel Laser Raider Destroyer. 2 action points (red action) Sweep 1. +1B dice. Push 2.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Marshall (elite)
Move: 5
Action: 3
Hearts: 4
Skulls: 3
:edit: Crystal Affinity: Blue & Emerald

STR: 2R (sword 1)
ARM: 2B 2R (shield)
WIL: 3B
Dex: 2R 1B (arrow 5)

TOUGH

I am the law: The Marshal is treated as both a spawn point and an elite minion. when bringing in new models use all the rules for spawning as if the Marshal was the spawn point. The only difference is the Marshall is placed at the start of the game in vain of the spawn point, the Marshal doesn't take a wound when it spawns and obviously, you can't spawn a new marshal. (How and when the marshal spawns will obviously change a lot depending on how 2nd edition works out in the end, but as a place holder that it spawns every couple of turns rather then whenever the player wants to as is the current edition works)

The swag: The marshal is guarding some of what the raiders are looking for, when he is killed, in addition to the loot provided for destroying a spawn point, the party may draw five loot cards and keep two of their choice or if it is the last Marshal draw a single treasure card from the treasure deck instead.

Initiate protocol defence matrix: 1 action point (blue action):Aura 2 beneficial, +1B ARM to Deputies and Sheriffs until next turn. Can only be used once per this minions activation

Trusty Laser Rifle: 2 action points (red action): Lance 8, +1B, Fire.

Justice Aint gonna dispense itself: 3 action points (red action) Range 3. If a target is knocked down or has hex add +1G to this attack and inflict bane.

----------------

Spawn: 8 deputies, 3 Marshals, 2 Sheriffs. Takes up two spawn slots the council had access to just like paired spawn point would.

------------------

edits:

"Take them down" has been completely removed, instead each bot has a different ability to help them gain a bonus for having greater numbers: deputies get a new ability with the same name, and this gets +1B for each deputy who is trying to use its special action. The Sheriff and the Marshal got a unique "initiate protocol" ability which will buff the bots of lower rank.

The Sheriffs shotgun has been completely nerfed as it was tested as too powerful unanimously, its push was reduced too two, and its only adds +1b dice now, this coupled with TED being removed will stop this being overpowered. Another slight change is that Sheriffs no longer have the same ability as the deputies, as this was criticised for being a bit repetitive. The mechanic is a ranged status effect now, but this still works with the deputies ability to give the Marshal his strongest attack as before, so the thematic concept of the lower ranking bots doing the bulk of the legal work and the marshal showing up last minute to deal their last rights and execute the heros for there crimes still works. The Sherrifs were also dropped to 2 hearts and the "i need back up" abiltiy was reduced to a single action point and instead teleports deputies on the board rather then spawning from the pool.

The Marshal has had its spawning changed, he no longer heals and instead there is two of them, the wounds was lowered and instead now offers an AOE buff to all the lower class bots, this was added in response to fears of consul players just hiding the Marshal. Instead of Justice aint going to dispense itself dealing Hex and Bane, it now needs the Sherrifs to inflict Hex for it too trigger the +1G. The Deputies knocking down heros still works for this also. Range dropped to 3. Swag was also altered slightly to account for two marshals, as I have mentioned they lost a heart but gained tough, i think this keeps them hard to kill, but not unreasonably so. I think the ability to heal is important when they double as a spawn and the strongest minion in the spawn pool but the swag rules compensates for any difficulty in taking out the Marshal imo. The spawning is still a little mess, but honestly don't know what to suggest with second edition kinda in the open at the moment.

Thanks for the feedback, outside of one or two things I wanted to keep the same I think i touched up on everyones concerns, Id like too thank anybody who takes the time to read and feedback on these and doubly so for Mr.GoblinMage for actually play testing these rules. Hope this is the last big edit, outside of the Marshals spawning habbit i'm really happy with these rules. I apologise for any grammatical issues, dyslexia is a pain and my partner is pestering me too get of the computer.

Peace.

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Last edited by Rainthezangoose on May 10th, 2017, 8:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.



May 8th, 2017, 2:38 pm
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cool cool, got the templates back to a normal state (so far... lol) will put this new info in from your update, but what about crystal affinity? Maybe we could just use the blue crystal to tie in with the law bots glowing blue eyes or somethin, i dunno


May 8th, 2017, 10:41 pm
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Lizardman wrote:
cool cool, got the templates back to a normal state (so far... lol) will put this new info in from your update, but what about crystal affinity? Maybe we could just use the blue crystal to tie in with the law bots glowing blue eyes or somethin, i dunno


Yeah blue makes sense. They glow blue and they are made of blue plastic. I'll add that now. Honestly a big thanks to you for drumming this up in card form. All the work wouldn't mean much if we had to play with stats wrote down in a list!

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May 9th, 2017, 7:33 am
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It looks like you are all making great progress, I've only scanned all the rules. I am sorry that I have failed to help much, I currently find myself with 3 jobs....(Full time software developer, starting a board game company, building a ninja warrior obstacle gym). I seriously have next to no time to playtest anything. I'll see if I can give these rules a simple run through in the next day or two.

I haven't even been able to beta Arcade yet....


May 9th, 2017, 5:34 pm
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AzureKnight wrote:
It looks like you are all making great progress, I've only scanned all the rules. I am sorry that I have failed to help much, I currently find myself with 3 jobs....(Full time software developer, starting a board game company, building a ninja warrior obstacle gym). I seriously have next to no time to playtest anything. I'll see if I can give these rules a simple run through in the next day or two.

I haven't even been able to beta Arcade yet....


Dude don't worry, every little genuinely helps and cudos to you for actually doing all that stuff in the first place!

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May 9th, 2017, 6:44 pm
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