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 Ideas for "exploration" in Super Dungeon EXPLORE 
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Minion
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EXPLORE CARDS

1. SETUP
The players place one spawning point, one treasure chest and three explore tokens on each dungeon tile. There may not be more than one spawning point, one treasure chest and three explore tokens on a single dungeon tile.
I like to call them "Point of Interest", like a strange patch of grass or a crack in a wall in videogames.

Each tile has a square marked !X! ARCADE SPAWNING ICON !X! where the spawning point is to be placed. Players then place a treasure chest anywhere within four squares of each spawning point and three explore tokens; each explore tokens may be placed no closer than within four squares of one another, the spawning point and the treasure chest.
This ensures a good repartition on each tile.

2. EXPLORE
Anytime a Hero moves into a dungeon tile that the party has never entered before, the Hero immediately stops their movement and draws a card from the top of the Explore Deck.
An explore card is not drawn for the tile the Heroes start the game in.

In addition, Heroes can use an Interact support action when adjacent to an Explore token to draw a card from the top of the Explore Deck.
However, Heroes can't interact with an Explore token if a monster is also adjacent to it.

After the explore card is drawn immediately resolve the effects of the card. After the effects of the card are resolved, discard the Explore token.
The Hero may then resume his activation.

Some explore cards represent items that can aid the Heroes. These cards must be placed in the backpack for further use.

Some explore cards spawn creeps or trigger traps.


CREEPS
Some explore cards spawn a special type of monster known as creeps.

If an explore card spawn creeps, it indicates the number of creeps that are spawned.
There is no limit to the number of creeps that may be on the dungeon map, just the number of models players own!

If the creeps are spawned by entering a new tile, they spawn within three squares of the tile’s spawning point as normal.
If the creeps are spawned by interacting with an Explore token, they spawn within three squares of the Explore token.
When spawning, creeps may not be placed adjacent to other monsters.

All creeps have the Insignificant ability.

Creeps' activation in Arcade:
During the Consul Turn, creeps are the first type of monsters to activate but they don't activate the same way as Solo or Elite monsters.
Creeps perform Upkeep, then Move and Fight commands. When moving, creeps spread among all Heroes within range, prioritizing the Hero with the most wrath. After engaging a Hero, creeps don't change target on subsequent turns.
This change is not really necessary but it goes with the other changes I've made in my house-rule for Arcade.


TRAPS
When a trap explore card is drawn the Heroes have sprung a trap!

Traps have various shapes, indicated on the explore card: Wave, Line, Area or Scatter.
If the trap's card don't indicate a shape, the target is the activated Hero.
The text on the trap card may indicate the target(s) and any special effect.

WAVE TRAPS
Some traps have a Wave effect centered on the Explore token and affects every square within 1 square of the token, including the token’s square.
Resolve immediately the effect of the trap and discard the card.

TEMPLATE TRAPS
Some traps use a trap template. After a trap has been sprung the players place the trap’s template in the tile according to the rules below:

1. Line trap
- if sprung by entering a new tile, the line template is placed alongside the doorway on the new tile
- if sprung by interacting with an Explore token, one extremity of the line template is placed in place of the Explore token and the template is aligned on the Hero

2. Area trap
- if sprung by entering a new tile, the area template is placed on the doorway astride the two tiles
- if sprung by interacting with an Explore token, the area template covers the squares of the Explore token and the Hero

3. Scatter trap
When a scatter trap is drawn place one single square template adjacent to the Hero who sprung the trap:
- on the new tile if sprung by entering a new tile
- on the square of the Explore token if sprung by interacting with an Explore token
Then place three more anywhere within the tile, no closer than within four squares of one another.

Trap templates may not be placed across walls, structures, or chasms. They may be placed in the
same square as a friendly or enemy model.

Once the template has been placed the trap is immediately triggered.

TRIGGERING TRAPS
Whenever a model moves onto a trap template or a square adjacent to the template the trap is triggered. Immediately resolve the effects of the trap.
All models, friendly or enemy, that are on or adjacent to the trap template are affected.

Many trap effects are shown as either a support action or an offensive action. When these traps are triggered immediately resolve the action.

If a trap requires an offense roll to resolve its effects it will have a STR attribute that affected models must make a defense roll against.

Traps may be triggered multiple times until they are disarmed. However, a model can only trigger a trap once during its activation.

Monsters never trigger traps. However, if a Hero triggers a trap, any monsters on, or adjacent to, the trap template are affected as well.

DISARMING TRAPS
Some traps have a Defense attribute. In order to disarm a trap a model must use the indicated basic offensive action and exceed the trap’s defense.
If a trap doesn't have a Defense attribute, it can't be disarmed.

When a template trap is disarmed, remove the template.


EXPLORE DECK
The Explore Deck contains 24 cards: 8 good effects, 8 good effects mixed with creeps and 8 bad effects (traps...).
I mixed FK and Beta Explore cards with some tweaks here and there.

Treasure Stash: Draw 1 Treasure card.
Wandering Marchant: Heroes can discard up to 3 loots, then draw the same number of loot cards.
Secret Code: Add 1 Princess Coin in the party's backpack.
Cooked Meat: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove one wound token from its card.
Party Refresher: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove one wound token from every Hero.
Herbal Remedy: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove all status effects from its card.
Extra Soda: Discard during a Hero's activation to place one potion token on its card.
Loot Stash: Draw two loot cards.

Cooked Meat: 1 Creep: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove one wound token from its card.
Party Refresher: 3 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove one wound token from every Hero.
Health Tonic: 3 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove all wound tokens from its card.
Health Tonic: 3 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove all wound tokens from its card.
Herbal Remedy: 2 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to remove all status effects from its card.
Extra Soda: 2 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to place one potion token on its card.
Loot Stash: 2 Creeps: Draw two loot cards.
Turbo Button: 2 Creeps: Discard during a Hero's activation to give this Hero +1MV and +1AP this turn.

Giant Boulder: Red action: Wave, STR 5W, Massive damage
Charged Crossbow: Red action: STR 3W, Knockdown
Spiked Floor: Red action: Area template, STR 3W, Slow
Chill Wind: Blue action: At the end of this Hero turn, all Heroes suffer Ice.
Poisonous Gas: Blue action: At the end of this Hero turn, all Heroes suffer Poison.
Smothering Fog: Blue action: Until the end of this Hero turn and during the next, Heroes on this tile can't drink potions.
Broken Gear: One Hero immediately discards one equipped piece of equipment.
Creep Factory: 6 Creeps

This is the basics. I plan to tweak Boss specific explore cards to add more flavor.


BONUS: A Legend scenario revolving around Explore cards and tokens

The Heroes are tasked by someone important to get 3 special Roses from Fae Woods.
Heroes have 8 turns to accomplish this task before the night.

Setup
3 tiles, no SP, no Treasure chest, 4 Explore tokens per tiles.
For each tile, 4 Explore cards are shuffled:
- one bonus, like 1 Cooked Meat for tile 1, 1 Extra Soda for tile 2 and 1 Treasure Stash for tile 3
- one small bonus + creeps or a little group of kodamas or kinokos
- one trap
- one Rose, but finding it will make appear a full spawn of kodamas or kinokos

Finding the last Rose will spawn Glimmerwing (because of it's tail). The timer stops when GW spawns and Heroes win with honor and the 3 Roses when GW is defeated.

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Last edited by Arckelian on February 2nd, 2018, 11:47 am, edited 12 times in total.



April 23rd, 2016, 5:27 pm
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Minion
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Good ideas, especially the "points of interest"!! Very thematic.

The rule for exploring in FK is : the party can only perform this action once per tile in a game. It makes some sense, and I think I would allow only one explore action for the party on each point of interest.

I agree that creeps are a problem with the explore deck, and that the FK version of this deck doesn't worse the 2 AP expense to Explore.

Until now, my solution was to apply "fully" the explore cards when drawn while entering a new tile, but not with the Explore action. In that case, there is no creeps spawn (except for the Creeps Factory), and traps can be disarmed (one free attempt) just before they trigger.


April 23rd, 2016, 10:24 pm
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Minion
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INU wrote:
The rule for exploring in FK is : the party can only perform this action once per tile in a game. It makes some sense, and I think I would allow only one explore action for the party on each point of interest.

You are right. I should have said: A Hero can perform an Explore basic action when adjacent to an Explore token. Remove the token and draw an Explore card.

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April 24th, 2016, 8:30 pm
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Bottle Cap
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I'm totally agree with you. Exploration is underused and it could be very interesting and thematic.
POIs are really good idea. Nice taken, with one use tokens...
But I would like to add some questions,
Why don't you mix FK and Beta cards to construct the explore deck? It'd lead to a better balanced deck.
I would keep the explore card when entering a new tile as a kind of event in an unexplored territory. To remember it just need to place the card on the board during setup.
It could be possible to introduce other way to trigger the POIs, monster o mini bosses, to avoid heroes use them. Traps activates and benefits discarded.


April 26th, 2016, 1:26 pm
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Minion
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mabertos wrote:
I'm totally agree with you. Exploration is underused and it could be very interesting and thematic.
POIs are really good idea. Nice taken, with one use tokens...

Thank you.

mabertos wrote:
Why don't you mix FK and Beta cards to construct the explore deck? It'd lead to a better balanced deck.

I think that to be an attractive action, the Explore deck must be favorable for Heroes.
If I remember correctly, in the Beta deck, the ratio is 70% good and 30% bad for Heroes, which is fine. Don't forget that the good cards also spawns with creeps.

mabertos wrote:
I would keep the explore card when entering a new tile as a kind of event in an unexplored territory. To remember it just need to place the card on the board during setup.

I removed that in favor of an action decided by players. I felt it broke the flow of action when entering a new tile.
It's house-ruling, so sure you can do what you like.

mabertos wrote:
It could be possible to introduce other way to trigger the POIs, monster o mini bosses, to avoid heroes use them. Traps activates and benefits discarded.

I've also thought of this, but coudn't find a good way to do it. I've also wanted for the Consul to be able to lay traps.

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April 26th, 2016, 3:15 pm
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Minion
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@ INU and mabertos
I've been thinking about the Explore card when entering a new tile and I still think it breaks the flow of action and goes against the philosophy to let the Heroes choose to explore if they want. That's also the reasoning why I don't draw 3 Explore cards keep 2 at the beginning of the game.
That being said, I've also thought about a way for the Consul to intervene during exploration, with the rules described in first post in play. Sadly, it doesn't work in Arcade.

Contesting exploration (Classic mode):

When a Hero uses an Explore basic action, the Consul draws the Explore card and can contest the exploration
(because it is his dungeon after all):
- if he doesn't contest, the card is revealed and its effects are applied.
- if he contests the exploration, he puts the card aside, face down, until resolution of the contest. The Consul may try to contest 1 exploration per tile and only if there are monsters on the tile being explored.


If the Consul chooses to contest the exploration:
All Heroes roll all their WILL dice together and count the Stars (blank, potions and hearts don't count).
Then, the Consul rolls the exact same dice (number and color), counts the Stars and adds 3 Stars.

Resolution:
- If the Consul gets more Stars than the Heroes, the contest is successful: the Consul searches for a Trap card in the Explore deck
(don't choose, pick the first), plays the trap (centered on the explored Point of Interest) and shuffles the Trap card back in the deck.
The Consul also removes 1 Explore token from anywhere on the board; the card initially drawn
(the one put aside, face down) is discarded.
- If the Consul gets equal or less Stars than Heroes, the contest failed: the Heroes reveal the card initially drawn. Any Trap card will be shuffled back and another card will be drawn; repeat until Heroes draw a positive card. Ignore the number of Creeps listed on this card.
We suppose that the contested card would be a positive card, but I added this in case of troll Consul to ensure the Heroes get a positive card.

Note: if contest is successfull, Heroes get a trap and lose a Point of Interest to explore; if contest is unsuccessfull, Heroes get an only-positive card. So it is a tough choice for the Consul.
Also note that the rules described may encourage farming/killing all monsters before exploring and moving onto the next tile. I made these rules with a timer/1.0 tracker/Lootimeter in mind (as I currently play my games), so not that much time to farm and explore every nook and cranny.

I coudn't test all of these since I don't play Classic. If anyone was interested in testing and giving feedback, it would be very appreciated.

It made me also think about how Traps work: I would play them without disarming (this action as been removed from Beta) nor templates. Keep these for Legends.
Instead, Traps are triggered only 1 time; their area of effect is a Burst 1 centered on the Point of Interest.
That way, Traps aren't that bad to Heroes, more like a free attack to them, and are less a thorn in the foot, especially regarding the pace of the game.

I have some testing to do, hopefully soon, regarding Exploration (1st post), Traps and the changes made about Loot in Beta 1.2.

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Last edited by Arckelian on April 28th, 2016, 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.



April 27th, 2016, 9:59 am
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For how strongly favorable the Beta Explore deck is, using it should probably cost at least 2 AP. Probably 3, as it's possible to get 2 Treasures, which is utterly game-breaking.

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April 27th, 2016, 5:49 pm
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mabertos wrote:
Why don't you mix FK and Beta cards to construct the explore deck?


Note that current owners of FK do not own any of the Beta cards.

Really, the Explore deck is a huge shift from the FK deck. The power level and effects are way off, to the point that they are no longer the same game. This deck is "easy mode", for sure.

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April 27th, 2016, 5:51 pm
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GrauGeist wrote:
For how strongly favorable the Beta Explore deck is, using it should probably cost at least 2 AP. Probably 3, as it's possible to get 2 Treasures, which is utterly game-breaking.
GrauGeist wrote:
Really, the Explore deck is a huge shift from the FK deck. The power level and effects are way off, to the point that they are no longer the same game. This deck is "easy mode", for sure.

From what I've read from you, I understand you want an harder game.
I, personnally, look for a more friendly "core" game, challenging but not to the point of being repulsive to casual gamers.
Variants like at the back of the rulesbook are a good way to adjust the difficulty.

I agree that getting 2 Treasures on 1 card is a huge advantage. It should be toned down to 1 Treasure in the final release.
Also, the Traps in Beta are meh.
I still think Exploration should be favorable to Heroes in the probability of having a positive card, or else what's the point of exploring. That's the problem with FK.
I don't have my game with me to check but maybe removing the doubled negative cards from FK (keeping 1 of a kind negative, like in Beta) and mixing FK and Beta decks would result in a deck favorable in probability for Heroes but with less kinder negative cards.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was going to report my playtest from yesterday with the Exploring rules from 1st post, the 1.2 Loot rewarding, 2 Treasures per Hero cap, Beta LOS and Movement, a revised Wrath and Command deck and a Lootimeter deck.
I must say that I couldn't finish the game, because of bad luck: the Monsters were blocking a hallway and access to 2nd Spawn Point when the Mini-Boss spawned from Lootimeter deck (I will try to revise that too). Not that it was doomed, but it was dragging and I was out of time.
Heroes explored 4 Points of Interest to get 1 combo, 2 traps and 1 "a Hero must discard 1 equipment" (Beta deck was used). Didn't make the game easier.

Overall, I'm really pleased by these Exploring rules. Although I had bad luck with the cards, the mecanism works well: I had the feeling of searching in the dungeon for rewards but the Consul had lured me with traps.

I will edit the first post regarding the setup of Explore tokens.
Arckelian wrote:
During setup, the Consul (in Classic) or the Heroes (in Arcade) place 3 Explore tokens per tiles. Each token should be placed at least 6 squares away from each other and from the Spawn Point. This ensures a good repartition on each tile.
Note that I didn't put a "free" Treasure Chest on any tile, just the ones from destroying Spawn Points. It felt pretty balanced since I didn't use Mighty Monster, but with limited loot and 2 equipped treasures cap per Heroes.

In Beta 1.1, destroyed Spawning Point gave 1 Treasure chest.
Now, in 1.2, it gives 2 Loot cards and it's been clarified that you put a Treasure chest per tile during setup.
To reflect these changes:
During setup, the Consul (in Classic) or the Heroes (in Arcade) place in this order
- 1 Spawning Point on each tile
- 1 Treasure chest on each tile, at least 5 squares away from Spawning Point
- 3 Explore tokens per tiles. Each token should be placed at least 5 squares away from each other and from the Spawning Point and Treasure chest, if possible.
This ensures a good repartition on each tile.

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April 28th, 2016, 7:38 am
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Arckelian wrote:
GrauGeist wrote:
For how strongly favorable the Beta Explore deck is, using it should probably cost at least 2 AP. Probably 3, as it's possible to get 2 Treasures, which is utterly game-breaking.

Really, the Explore deck is a huge shift from the FK deck. The power level and effects are way off, to the point that they are no longer the same game. This deck is "easy mode", for sure.

From what I've read from you, I understand you want an harder game.
I, personnally, look for a more friendly "core" game, challenging but not to the point of being repulsive to casual gamers.
Variants like at the back of the rulesbook are a good way to adjust the difficulty.


I want a balanced game, not a game that either side auto-wins, but a game that the Heroes can barely win most of the time in Classic play. I also want a game that is balanced with the FK component baseline, where the difficulty doesn't radically shift going from SDE 2.0 to FK. Right now SDE 2.0 is a huge step favoring Heroes compared to FK - that is bad design and poor balance.

You probably want to play Arcade.

Exploration should be slightly net unfavorable to Heroes, because Heroes should be fighting rather than burning the Explore deck down. If you incent players to Explore, rather than get to the Boss Fight, then that is what they will do.

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April 28th, 2016, 6:58 pm
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It might actually be perfect to combine easier 2.0 and more difficult FK explore cards for better balance for both / building custom deck of chosen difficulty for those who want to (I don't, but there is an option). Thought just in idea level.


April 28th, 2016, 8:38 pm
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Except, the people with FK in hand and on the shelf won't have the 2.0 cards, and telling them to buy new cards is a no-go.

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April 28th, 2016, 9:00 pm
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GrauGeist wrote:
I want a balanced game, not a game that either side auto-wins, but a game that the Heroes can barely win most of the time in Classic play.

I totally agree that games must be balanced. And they must also be fun.

GrauGeist wrote:
Exploration should be slightly net unfavorable to Heroes, because Heroes should be fighting rather than burning the Explore deck down. If you incent players to Explore, rather than get to the Boss Fight, then that is what they will do.

I don't get how it is balanced nor fun if it is unfavorable for Heroes to explore. It is like that in FK and nobody wants to explore.
With "Point of Interest Explore" (this is the official name of my house-rule from now), Heroes have an option to get bonuses, but it's not free: it costs 1 AP (meaning 1 less attack), sidetracking at times and can result in bad outcome.
You may have not catch that
Quote:
Also note that the rules described may encourage farming/killing all monsters before exploring and moving onto the next tile. I made these rules with a timer/1.0 tracker/Lootimeter in mind (as I currently play my games), so not that much time to farm and explore every nook and cranny.


nakano wrote:
It might actually be perfect to combine easier 2.0 and more difficult FK explore cards for better balance for both / building custom deck of chosen difficulty for those who want to (I don't, but there is an option). Thought just in idea level.
GrauGeist wrote:
Except, the people with FK in hand and on the shelf won't have the 2.0 cards, and telling them to buy new cards is a no-go.

I don't have my decks to check if it would really work but I'd suggest 3 possibilities:

- for FK deck only: remove any doubled negative cards (keep 1 of a kind negative card). I think it would reverse the proportion and make it more appealing to explore.

- for Beta deck only: reduce the 2 Treasures stash (x 2 cards) to 1 Treasure stash; for blue action Traps, make them red actions (wound + status effect) with a Strenght of 3 Stars.

- mixing FK and Beta decks: remove any doubled negative cards (keep 1 of a kind negative card) from FK, reduce the 2 Treasures stash (x 2 cards) to 1 Treasure stash from Beta, change or don't Traps from Beta

Also, Traps are triggered only 1 time; their area of effect is a Burst 1 centered on the Point of Interest (no templates nor disarming).

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April 29th, 2016, 8:35 am
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Arckelian wrote:
I totally agree that games must be balanced. And they must also be fun.

I don't get how it is balanced nor fun if it is unfavorable for Heroes to explore. It is like that in FK and nobody wants to explore.
With "Point of Interest Explore" (this is the official name of my house-rule from now), Heroes have an option to get bonuses, but it's not free: it costs 1 AP (meaning 1 less attack), sidetracking at times and can result in bad outcome.
You may have not catch that

I don't have my decks to check if it would really work but I'd suggest 3 possibilities:


Fun is for *both* sides - the Heroes are NOT more important than the Consul.

Revealing Explore Cards simply isn't the point of the game, so it is a behavior that should be disincented. 1AP clearly isn't expensive enough, especially for an easy bonus. Therefore, it should be expensive, costing at least 2AP, probably 3AP, and the rewards should be marginal at best. Dragging out the game should carry a penalty for the Heroes.

As I see it, there is only 1 functional possibility:
* keep the FK deck and trash the Beta deck.
The idea that the unprinted, artless Beta deck is of any sort of constraint or requirement on how SDE 2.0 should work makes no sense, given that people already have FK decks in hand. It's the same silliness of Wrath, whereby every Beta ruleset revolves around some flavor of adding Wrath to the game. Guess what - Wrath needn't be a mandatory component of Classic play. At all.

I flat out do not see the point of pushing Explore. Explore is a side activity that distracts from the game that players are supposed to be playing. It's the addition of all of these chromey whatnots that results in games of FK being measurably longer and drawn out than 1E. And loading in Princess Coins and so forth only makes the game longer yet again.

Did SDE not say they were going to refocus the core game? Without Explore?

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April 29th, 2016, 5:30 pm
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GrauGeist wrote:
I flat out do not see the point of pushing Explore. Explore is a side activity that distracts from the game that players are supposed to be playing. It's the addition of all of these chromey whatnots that results in games of FK being measurably longer and drawn out than 1E. And loading in Princess Coins and so forth only makes the game longer yet again.

Did SDE not say they were going to refocus the core game? Without Explore?


These are house-rules, nobody forces you to play them. I share for people who may find it interesting and fun like I do, as an optional side activity (or "side quest").

I also take account of feedback and others' suggestions to improve it. If you dismiss the very idea of exploring, it's irrelevent to advance this thread.

You don't care about Explore and are not interested in this house-rule. I will live with it.

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May 2nd, 2016, 9:07 am
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Sorry, nevermind.

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May 2nd, 2016, 9:24 am
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