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 Legends Update Thread 
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: November 14th, 2015, 2:33 pm
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Forum's got real quiet for a couple weeks now.
I think even the diehard true believers are leaving the sinking ship at this point.


January 24th, 2019, 2:59 pm
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Mini-Boss
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sinking ship? I just have nothing to say at this point.. some people have claimed some pre-painted stuff being released as specials, but I've seen nothing on this, and until internal affairs have been sorted out, there isn't much new stuff.. rules are clear enough not to have any more questions, so limited to what I have to say ^_^ that said, i'm still slowly working on my own 3D prints for various things, (like the printable dash board) but like I said, I don't have too much to say. got any questions to ask?

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January 24th, 2019, 3:43 pm
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Ninja Corps
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Yeah, it's mostly quiet just because there's no active topics. I still look here every day, more or less. Just very little to comment on is all.


January 25th, 2019, 2:51 pm
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Oh and in case anyone is wondering.. I more picture the company as a airplane.. It's had a engine blow out, it's got a leak in it's fuel line and they have having to ditch some weight, but they are trying to save the passengers and crew and hope to be able to get to a suitable landing site for repairs.

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January 25th, 2019, 5:13 pm
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Also check in regularly. Christmas blessed me with some The Edge: Dawnfall action, so I have been distracted.


January 26th, 2019, 1:49 am
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Mini-Boss
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i agree - nothing to post/discuss. A lot of the folks that were more active on the forums are on the SDE discord so not much reason to be on the forum since there's no new info coming here from ND/SPM.


January 26th, 2019, 7:37 am
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Denizen
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The Legend kickstarter mismanagement of funds is utterly depressing


January 29th, 2019, 6:05 pm
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They made the news again, this time in a bad way. I figure that this is relevant to people here.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article225610455.html


Skimming over it, there's not a whole lot of information that we don't already have- but there is a link to the Attorney General's response to Ninja Division. I'm off to read that right now.

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February 8th, 2019, 7:29 pm
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The Attorney General's response is that they will not be taking further actions against Ninja Division (based on the Kickstarter rules and the fact that we have not seen any substantive evidence that funds were misappropriated). He obviously didn't think that there was anything fishy about the overhead or licensing fees (or at least, nothing fishy enough to pursue).

If anyone has real evidence of wrongdoing, the AT invites us to send it to him.

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Last edited by odinsgrandson on February 8th, 2019, 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



February 8th, 2019, 7:41 pm
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Interesting but.. there is nothing new and.. boy, someone got paid to right the article? it contradicts itself, it's poorly written, heavily.. oh wait.. it's a newspaper.. yeah.. despite what some think, I don't say the company has done nothing wrong and can do no good, but this is really a bias and badly written Hackett job.. Is the Idaho Statesman owned by Murdoch or the Mirror group?..

Maybe Maxwell is still around and living in Idaho... as if anyone believed that JUST at the time it came out in public about how much he was screwing everyone, he had a heart attack and fell off his boat.. yet to find someone that believes that ^_^ (UK joke.. doubt anyone outside of the UK from a certain era will understand that).

and yep, the AG's report was it's a sad thing but no wrongdoing on their part, so no problem.. of course, it's a shame that ND don't use the KS much.. just think how much money in libel they could get.. that would be enough to get the game out ^_^

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February 8th, 2019, 7:46 pm
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I'll confirm that the Maxwell jokes don't play well over here.

Still, you don't think the article was done well? It is a follow up to an article they did three years ago (talking about how well Ninja Division was doing at the time). Was it just the bit about how John wouldn't do an interview with them? He apparently sent them the letter to the AG instead, and I figure that covers it well enough.

I think that Deke's 2016 line about how Kickstarter is about loyalty and trust contrasts well with the article about how Ninja Division have mostly lost said trust. And they don't tear apart the things that ND say in order to try and find a problem (the way that some KS backers have done with a lot of their updates).

I think the bias is largely in the sources they got- they went to the Kickstarter comments and BGG to see what people were saying and to find people to interview. I don't think the article is trying to harass ND or anything, but I don't think we live in a world where nothing has gone very (very) wrong with all of ND's projects.

The quote about a game project failing is obviously about video game projects, but I still don't think that's a damning problem- the sentiment can still apply.

I feel that the line "They hope, at least, for a refund" is a bit silly. We all know that if they had the cash to refund us, they'd just go ahead and produce everything.

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February 8th, 2019, 10:44 pm
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It's probably mostly me, it just seems like the standard 'we got a slow news day' story, and it's probably the style of journalism which I don't like, which to be fair is pretty much all newspapers and most news tv shows too. I prefer a more historical 'as unbias as possible' view of things, though that is almost impossible (as the old saying goes, History is written by the victor). and the way it's clearly geared more to one side tints that.. as well as, like I said, the controdictions. sure, it's not as harsh as some things have been, so that's good, and it does give some facts but it's kinda the lines like "Now it’s 2019, and those Kickstarter backers are passionate about something else: They want their games, and they want refunds.".. Okay, I admit openly that my backing was via the pledge manager on the shop side (I have minor issues with KS, even though I have used Indiegogo, but 1) it seams to be saying ALL Backers want their games AND refunds. and 2) People want BOTH Game and Refund, more then Game OR refund. I don't feel either of them two statements to be near the truth, but the standard attention grapping lines I see quite often.

Then does some comments which it seams to support saying how the company has given no updates, which is half true, (the article does points for covering itself with 'for the most part' but then does 'except for' which.. it's kinda shaky bit since it's kinda like the old 'contents and colours may vary' on a product.. it's not BAD-Bad, but just iffy writing, like it needs a bit of a tighter editor on it. (I'm reminded of a product I saw in the shops today.. "Italian chopped tomatoes".. the way that is written technically means they are Tomatoes chopped by Italians, but can mean they are Italian tomatoes which have been chopped.. its a bit iffy written if it's mean to be the latter, but it's kinda acceptable.. and I don't know.. maybe there is meant to be some special way that the Italians chop tomatoes? no clue on that side.. all I know it's they are poison to Cats, but a bit of ketchup is fine).

It then does a iffy bit saying that "the company launched new Kickstarters for other projects before knowing it could finish existing ones", and following the timeline for SDE:L to December 2016, but then jumps back to RRI in April, when it was, as for my understand, still believed they could deliver with little to no delay.. so it's kinda contradicting there, though the lines about Way of the Fighter and Relic knights is fine, the bit about 'for a set of miniature figures to go with another game'.. erm.. was that the techinally unrelated issue with another company? I did not believe ND/SPM had too much to do with that apart from they would be designing the figures, but there was, and still is, a bit of fuss on that front with both sides being far from blameless but blaming each other for everything..

John Cadice isn't say to refuse to talk. Just said that he agreed to an interview but then canceled.. that can mean a bunch of things. Most likely, he decided he didn't want to say anything in public which could be damaging, but then by saying nothing you do equal damage really. Or it could just be that for some reason or other, he wasn't able to do the interview.. was it in person? was it via e-mail? no clue. again, the statement is careful enough so the newspaper/online paper doesn't get into trouble for saying he refused to talk to them, when he didn't, but that doesn't mean he didn't just refuse/changed his mind..

It does, however address how the AG found no problem in the money, mostly a case of the company trying to get a product out, but costs got out of hand due to bad luck and kinda risking a bit too much and spreading a bit thin on the ground (anyone heard of an accumulator bet? it's not quite that bad, but not too far off..)..

again, it might just be me and how I read things, but there you go. I tend to avoid most news outlets as they are all bias and very few are quite open on this fact.. the ones which are open (BBC being openly labour based in the UK, for example) are fair enough for the odd report, if you take into account the bias and believe half of what they say, then that pretty much puts you in line with the facts of the matter. I spend too much time reading newspapers from the 1800 and early 1900s.. It might be cause there was less other known facts to know if they are heavily bias or not, but they are often a much more interesting and factual reading.. back when a report on an event was a page of text, with the odd photo, instead of two pages of large photos, with only a tiny bit of text which reads like a press release... the Local newspapers in my region are pretty much a joke anyway.. Hastings Observer has been that for years and there has been a fair number of calls for it to get back on track but.. that isn't gonna happen any time soon..

Again, i'll agree things have gone pretty bad and right now, things aren't being helped due to the delays due to feedback and health, which lead to money delays, which lead to... and so on.. They need to use some of there talents to do model work for other companies (they have tried, some of which gets spammed), or do simple stuff like card/dice games which are fairly popular to help try and build things back up, but while they are doing that, people aren't gonna be happy with the continuing delays.. Kinda catch-22.

Oh and not getting at you, you seam pretty level headed ^_^, but "We all know".. yeah.. kinda gonna have to remember, some people think everyone is like Damian Hurst.. Piss and it's worth millions..

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February 8th, 2019, 11:24 pm
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I took a journalism class- and the general intent isn't to be completely unbiased in any direction (as that is too inhibiting to writing anything). It is to align your writing bias with the general population, and not to take a side against the popular political views held by the general public.

Ok, the "backers want their game and they want refunds" line isn't good English. I'd bet that no one actually misunderstood, but it could have been fixed.


And I agree that SPM are in a sort of Catch 22. People are angry when they are doing anything that isn't delivering the game now, but the only way that they could pull in the money to deliver the game is if they do something else to raise the funds.

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February 9th, 2019, 12:11 am
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I know. I just wish we had something or someone over there would talk to us. As a late backer, I thankfully have no access to the KS page. I look once a week or so to see if there's an update and close the window if there isn't.


February 9th, 2019, 2:50 am
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odinsgrandson wrote:
I took a journalism class- and the general intent isn't to be completely unbiased in any direction (as that is too inhibiting to writing anything). It is to align your writing bias with the general population, and not to take a side against the popular political views held by the general public.


yep, I agree. Its been like that for years now. I'm just not too keen on it ^_^ it's been.. a few hundred years since a reporters job was to report the facts.. now it's journalists to tell a story which includes the facts.. but oh well, just personal taste I guess

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February 9th, 2019, 10:35 am
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Minion
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I wonder if it's realistic to think that ND could give the backers STL files of the figures with a special licence that we can only have them printed for our own use, so that we could at least print them ourselves if we want.


February 9th, 2019, 7:05 pm
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isn't gonna happen.. only a small amount of backers will have access, they would have to brake the license to give them to a print shop.
sure, the quality will tell (even on a resin printer) but even such a license wouldn't work out.. it's been tried tons of times..

It's an interesting idea but sadly not really practical unless the company does do bust.. but even then, what are the terms of contract with their sculptors? that matters. for example, there are a lot of shows not out on DVD (or even VHS) because when they were made, the license wasn't set up for that release.. there is one show i'm waiting for, which is having a hard time because only 1 episode ever aired (which makes it much harder for release), some of the cast/crew are dead, and some of the others aren't too keen on it. Currently one guy who is kinda in the know and is in fact ABLE to get a release of something done, has the episodes but can't do anything with them because of all the legal hoops.

If the sculptors were smart, they would have a contract that gives ND/SPM a set amount of rights as to what they can do with the work and what they can't. Since it hasn't been in there business before, it would probably not allow digital release. So they would have to make a new contract, new payment system and retroactive agreement in order to be able to release them... and then it'll probably be cheaper to get a (god forbid) American plastic manufacturer to just product the figures.

If the contract is of a certain way, they can streamline the progress and just 'license' the models for digital release.. which again, will cost them a fair bit. and with limited to no return.. if they give them freely to backers, people will bootleg them (often they will print them themselves and sell the prints) or bootleg the files.. It's a bane for us 3D model designers.. You see a lot of stuff on ebay which legally shouldn't be.. I see some 3D modellers also doing stuff they shouldn't too (like, for example, If I charged people to download my Cornet SDE figure, that would be a big no-no. illegal. I could just about get away with selling some printed ones for a small price (coming under as price of manufacture etc) but selling fan-art? not only illegal but highly unethical and I'm a !SODA! ethical guy)…

it's been said about before too.. nice enough idea and good to see you posting something that is in some way part of a friendly debate or constructive. Need more people willing to be civilised like that ^_^

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February 9th, 2019, 7:28 pm
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Minion
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I can see there being a problem with giving out the STLs up until the point they concretely say that the Kickstarter will not be fulfilled. But if they do that, I feel like there is a case that the backers have some rights to STLs? I won't disagree that it could be messy depending on what the rights of usage on the models are now. And I have no idea what those are ;)

The real shame will be if those designs are forever locked away.


February 10th, 2019, 12:23 am
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don't really have any right to them, no. It's kinda like something that do in America a lot called 'Toy swapping'.. where people buy a toy.. then when a better 'improved' version comes out, buy the new one, swap in the old one and return it to the store for there money and claim to people 'the company cheated them, they OWE them'.

SPM/ND kinda owe the backers either money back or plastic figures but for that side, that's all. As stated quite a bit, there are always risks. people who put there money on the table for such, should be grown up enough to accept that. It's not nice, in the end, and it's a lost but if you couldn't afford to lose that money, why back the horse, no matter how good the odds are?

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February 10th, 2019, 9:57 am
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I think the article was well written and at this point, the BEST written article that takes the most unbiased view (compared to the online news articles when the AG report was publicized on KS that was full of inaccurate statements and assumptions).

I didn't see anything inaccurate with the Idaho article and it has a vested interest in being accurate given it's a local paper and the business they're writing about is within their population (whereas internet people can write crap without really any issues).

As for the STL files - I agree with what's been said, it's very unlikely. We don't know if what they have produced is even printable given we don't know how far they actually got with each piece of the project.

Ultimately, for me, it means that there continues to be this gap in the chibi miniature market that other companies aren't taking full advantage of (aside from Starcadia Quest, I guess) which could either mean, yes, it's extremely hard and thus not worth the effort (and thus ND having issues is par for course), or there really isn't a big enough market that makes it worth the risk/investment. There are plenty of players making chibi minis without games and that seems to fill the niche for folks that *just* want minis and not the game.

For the game itself, there isn't anything groundbreaking about the system (even with the new rules) and the selling point is the minis for most folks, which is also where it seems the game is stuck.


February 11th, 2019, 4:27 pm
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