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 Legends Update Thread 
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Dungeon Boss
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Joined: March 14th, 2012, 4:33 pm
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On the Mutant Chronicles Chibis:

Siege is kind of a nostalgia game for a lot of people who are prominent in the industry, and Modiphius got a lot of them involved (prominent game designers were each creating a campaign).

Modiphius agreed with Ninja Division that NJ could produce resin minis to be part of the Kickstarter. I get the impression that Modiphius separated them out into groups, but didn't have a clue how SDE groupings work. NJ figured out how to separate them out into a coherent spawn point, but it ended up with backers needing to buy an odd assortment of the bundles, at about 3x the cost of a normal warband.

Backers clamored for a "Chibi Bundle" in hopes that having them all grouped together would off set the cost. Modiphius promised to try and get a chibi bundle made, but the back and forth with NJ just took a LONG time. It seemed to me that Modiphius was at least implying promises for NJ without necessarily confirming with them first.

Eventually, there was a chibi warband bundle made available during the pledge manager. Of course, the minis were all resin, so it didn't really end up cheaper. But they did add an ezoghoul, so that's awesome.

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September 21st, 2018, 5:55 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Joined: November 3rd, 2016, 9:02 am
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ah.. another 'major faults on both sides' where both sides (and respective fan bases) would blame the other... been there, seen that. No winners.

of course, and this will probably make seam people understand my normal attuites a bit more, no conflict has winners, only various levels of losers, which is one reason I'm a pacifist. There are tons of other reasons

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September 21st, 2018, 6:05 pm
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They weren't really even in conflict with one another- just some degrees of separation between the people making statments to the fan base and people who knew or could decide what was happening.

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September 21st, 2018, 6:48 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Joined: October 29th, 2012, 8:56 pm
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The ezoghoul was the hook for me!


September 21st, 2018, 7:28 pm
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Mini-Boss
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odinsgrandson wrote:
They weren't really even in conflict with one another- just some degrees of separation between the people making statments to the fan base and people who knew or could decide what was happening.


fair enough

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September 21st, 2018, 7:40 pm
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Minion
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Joined: November 11th, 2015, 5:18 pm
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I have backed both ND/SPM and Modiphius products in which both have a fairly long delay of multiple KS. I found the communication to their backers from Modiphius to have more relevant information though.


September 23rd, 2018, 2:23 pm
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Mini-Boss
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like I said before, There has been bigger and smaller companies that have done worse then ND/SPM have done with this campaign, yet people are calling for blood (literally) and throwing personal insults which are just uncaused for. Moan at the company, fine. Unfairly, unjustly, or fairly, or justly, fine, but personal insults and threats of harm? boy.. that is far worse then what has been done.. Did they force money from people? no.. they asked and people gave. Did they hold a gun to your head? did they cut your wrists? no.. nature of justice (which is far from fair) says all you can do is the same back to them. Anything more is unjust.. Oh well.. I'm not happy with some things but like I said, I don't think extremes are called for.. As in the last year, a WHOLE bunch of medical issues with me have come out which are mostly inherited from the family on both sides, and these are life threatening (well, one of them only means i'm techinally starting to go blind), I don't want to kill my partners, kill the doctors and nurses for not finding out some things earlier to stop or delay stuff.. yet I in theory have more right.. I probably also have a good right to moan at anyone that smokes near me for the very harmfull effects of second hand smoke, but oh well. while $300 is a lot of money to me, its not the end of the world or my life, so calls for ending other peoples lives is just really out of scale.. through I really expect some news on something soon, even through I know what they are doing to get themselves out of the mess and I believe that, in time, it will do that.. problem is, it'll take a time known as X... X the unknown... humans fear and hate the unknown...

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September 23rd, 2018, 2:52 pm
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Hi all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that I am no longer working with Ninja Division Publishing.

I was originally hired to bring Super Dungeon Explore, Super Dungeon Arcade, and Relic Knights into their second editions. This has been accomplished from the rules-writing side (link: https://twitter.com/ninjadiv/status/101 ... 50912?s=21 ). There is more to do in terms of manufacturing and distribution but, as a rules writer, I simply cannot add anything else to these projects.

Legends itself has playtesting and adventures to be worked on (though the core rules are written) but that was always Deke’s baby, and I can’t wait to see what he does with it.

With no more rules to write, I am moving on. I am uncertain what I will do next, maybe even try my hand at my own company.

I am leaving on good terms with Ninja Division. I will always wish them the best. And I am open to working with them again in the future if they have more projects for me.

I do want to say, it has been an honor working with this community. Playtesting with you guys was a ton of fun. You’re amazing people, and the new editions are so, so much better for your input. Dealing with you guys was, by far, my favorite part of this job. I love this hobby and I love the people who participate in it, and you guys are some of the best. This was a hard year for me with the loss of my mom and a number of other things, and you guys were always truly supportive and understanding. I know there is a lot of frustration and anger out there right now, and rightly so. I wish I could have done more. I truly hope one day I’ll be able to sit down for a game of SDE or RK 2.0 with some of you.

Thank you. All of you.

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Email: justin.gibbs@ninjadivision.com


October 19th, 2018, 10:55 pm
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Good luck ^_^ I haven't played (I don't have too much interest in) Relic Knights but I think you did some good work on SD and have been civil and honest in your comments (as far as I can tell of course). It's a shame about your loss and I hope things go well for your future.

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October 19th, 2018, 11:03 pm
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Best of luck for future endeavors, Justin! I’m extremely grateful for your involvement in both games. I’ll be keeping an eye out for future projects with your name on them.


October 20th, 2018, 12:11 am
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Mini-Boss
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Take care! Looking forward for when the majority of your work finally makes it to us. I’m a fan of the SDE 2.0 Arcade and RK 2.0 rules and glad ND made the decision to bring you on board!


October 20th, 2018, 1:20 am
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Ninja Corps
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All the best Justin. Your contributions have really kept things fresh, and we'll toast a round to you when it arrives!


October 20th, 2018, 5:41 pm
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Minion
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Joined: August 25th, 2012, 8:14 am
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So, I've been out of the loop for a while regarding this campaign, and I'm trying to figure out where things are at. I see that there's a rules PDF, and quite a few card PDFs. How much of that replaces what I've got already with Forgotten King? I see there's a new Mighty Monster tracker I'll need to print out, but can I play SDE with the new rules and the cards I've got already, or do I need the new cards for things to work? Also, it looks like there's not a lot of character cards in the new rules; are they changed much from the existing cards, or are they mostly the same? And if they are changed, how compatible are the cards that I've gotten from Forgotten King for the heroes that didn't get new cards with the new rules yet?


October 22nd, 2018, 4:55 am
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The new 2.0 Rules (silly name but oh well) replaces the FK rules. With the Mighty Monster Tracker, it's kinda a mixture between the Original and FK rules, taking arguably the best of both.

The new cards are just what cards are in the new sets. All FK era cards are 100% compatible with 2.0 (though the Ghost creeps have had a minor tweak). While arguably (again) some treasure cards might have been tweaked, FK era cards are fine, but there are some new cards for treasure etc.

However, that say, the Explore Deck has been removed completely, along with traps. New relic cards for bosses and mighty monster bonus cards to help the consul keep track of which bonuses the monsters have.

Pets have changed the most as the wonder cards have gone, Pet cards are now full sized and have added a summing cost. This is a good improvement if you like Pets cause it means you are likely to HAVE a pet appear in a game. The Pet rules have been spun out so if you don't like Pets then just don't use them.

I think that's about it. Any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

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If you want to see some SD related stuff I've made and shared, why not check out my thread:
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October 22nd, 2018, 8:54 am
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Sethala wrote:
How much of that replaces what I've got already with Forgotten King?


The PDF rules available are Classic 2.0, Arcade 2.0, and Pet Parade. They are intended to completely replace the existing FK classic and FK arcade rules. Pets and Creeps are no longer in the 2.0 base rules as wonders/treasure you can draw and use or spawned by traps/exploration. Instead they are an expansion that may be used to add pets and/or creeps to Classic 2.0 and Arcade 2.0. So if you hated pets and/or creeps, you no longer have to use them and you can use one without the other. In general, Pets are practically always an advantage for the heroes to have/use. Creeps are lightly used in Classic 2.0, but the rules are primarily there for the many dungeon bosses that spawn creeps. Creeps in Arcade are tied to the challenge and plot cards that replace the trap/exploration cards.

Sethala wrote:
I see there's a new Mighty Monster tracker I'll need to print out, but can I play SDE with the new rules and the cards I've got already, or do I need the new cards for things to work?


i recommend printing the MMC as it introduces the 'timer' mechanism back to the game from SDE 1.0. You can play Classic 2.0 or Arcade 2.0 with the existing FK cards (this is what I do). The balance for FK heroes and monsters is different in 2.0 primarily because status effects are now removed at the end of a model's activation for heroes and monsters. This (can) weaken the power/impact of heroes and monsters that primarily focus on status effects since you have to spend actions to reapply them, but at least for heroes, you may no longer necessarily need to spend hearts/other actions to remove status effects in some situations. Depending how and who you play with, there is more of a shift toward dealing wounds/AOE to stay on top of the MMC timer instead of neutralizing monsters and farming them for gear, but on the flip side, heroes are no longer capped to 1 treasure card and the Consul now has the MMC which, in Classic, if they manage to run out with remaining spawn points, empowers the dungeon boss with Relics to better defeat the heroes and in Arcade, the spawns constantly heals the Dungeon Boss until they are removed.

Sethala wrote:
Also, it looks like there's not a lot of character cards in the new rules; are they changed much from the existing cards, or are they mostly the same? And if they are changed, how compatible are the cards that I've gotten from Forgotten King for the heroes that didn't get new cards with the new rules yet?


All of the heroes and monsters from SDE 1.0 will be getting resculpts and updated cards for SDE 2.0. On top of this, King Starfire is also getting new cards for SDE 2.0. You can use the FK or 2.0 cards as you prefer. There are minor changes, but they *mostly* do the same thing/fulfill the same role. Notably, Kobolds in SDE 2.0 Arcade are weaker. The heroes are arguably better balanced (depending on how you felt about their balance in FK), but some are better in classic vs. arcade due to the empahsis on AOE in Arcade to bypass the Expendable rule (basically attack elite/gang leaders without having to chew through their minions).

All the other heroes and monsters from FK are compatible with SDE 2.0 rules, but there are a few, like Jack Scarecrow /w Bandage modifier whose ability no longer does anything b/c there is no longer a Bandage basic action (he still plays fine). There are some new SDE 2.0 cards (I think primarily the SDE NAS crossover, which also has a free PDF for the first upgrade pack) that have abilities that only work in SDE 2.0 since you now get multiple princess coins to start and there are abilities/potions that give you buffs based on how much you spend during the game.

====================
If you're interested, there's a lot of info about SDE 2.0 Arcade along with battle reports:
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14781

Otherwise you can ask questions here or on the SDE Discord.

I think the majority of folks that have gone through the effort of PnP SDE 2.0 have enjoyed it, but there are some folks that still prefer FK (mostly b/c they did not have the same issues with FK that some folks like I did when we got it...not matching up to our expectations/taking too long to play). And, of course, PnP requires effort and resources that can feel bad when you've already spent money on the KS to....not have to spend more effort ;). but the other option is waiting and we don't know how long that wait will be!


October 22nd, 2018, 3:50 pm
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Mini-Boss
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much better summary then mine. Good job.

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If you want to see some SD related stuff I've made and shared, why not check out my thread:
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October 22nd, 2018, 4:18 pm
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Minion
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Awesome, thanks for the info!

I think the 2.0 rules are enough for me to break out the game again and give it another spin. I don't think I'm going to print out all the new cards, since the old cards should be perfectly functional (and we can just discard and redraw if we find a card that just doesn't work), even if the new cards have some goodies that I'm looking forward to using. And I think the rules will definitely fix the issues I had with FK rules, particularly the lack of a timer to encourage the heroes to move forward. The only complaint I've got is the lack of mini-boss spaces; I've gotten a lot of mini-bosses from individual packs, and it feels like a lost opportunity to only use one of those mini-bosses per game (unless we play the epic mode, of course).


October 22nd, 2018, 4:42 pm
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Mini-Boss
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@Sethala - Yeah - I read a few battle reports b/f I did a super cheap B/W PnP on paper and after playing that a few times, I knew it was worth it (for me) to get it printed on card stock at staples and buy some penny sleeves.

I absolutely hear you on the lack of mini-bosses usage! It's a shame! My understanding was b/c Mini bosses are used in SDE Arena, but dungeon bosses aren't, there's more 'room' for more mini bosses (especially since so many double as heroes).

5-6 hero also uses 2 mini bosses in both modes.

In Arcade, some folks have used the hard mode to fight 2 mini bosses (Consul's right hand? I think? Spawns an additional mini boss on turn 8) in a 3-4 hero game, but you could do this in a 5-6 hero game for 3 mini bosses!


October 22nd, 2018, 4:56 pm
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Mini-Boss
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^_^ yep, in a way that is a problem, through more heroes equal more mini-bosses.. But end of the day, the argument I would also give about I've got soo many mini-bosses, also applies for Heroes. The group I normally play with sometimes change there heroes but they are happy and used to set ones, so they use them.

SPM has said that in the future, there are plans for 'Custom' MMC releases, so maybe a harder one with more Minibosses etc. Different flavours are 100% in the offering as the 'default' one is aimed for Starfire (thus the Fire Bonus. If you played an Ice Boss, really an Ice Bonus would work better etc).
Home Made custom ones are, of course, simple enough

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If you want to see some SD related stuff I've made and shared, why not check out my thread:
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14638
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October 22nd, 2018, 4:57 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: November 14th, 2015, 2:33 pm
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ND_Justin wrote:
Hi all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that I am no longer working with Ninja Division Publishing.

I was originally hired to bring Super Dungeon Explore, Super Dungeon Arcade, and Relic Knights into their second editions. This has been accomplished from the rules-writing side (link: https://twitter.com/ninjadiv/status/101 ... 50912?s=21 ). There is more to do in terms of manufacturing and distribution but, as a rules writer, I simply cannot add anything else to these projects.

Legends itself has playtesting and adventures to be worked on (though the core rules are written) but that was always Deke’s baby, and I can’t wait to see what he does with it.

With no more rules to write, I am moving on. I am uncertain what I will do next, maybe even try my hand at my own company.

I am leaving on good terms with Ninja Division. I will always wish them the best. And I am open to working with them again in the future if they have more projects for me.

I do want to say, it has been an honor working with this community. Playtesting with you guys was a ton of fun. You’re amazing people, and the new editions are so, so much better for your input. Dealing with you guys was, by far, my favorite part of this job. I love this hobby and I love the people who participate in it, and you guys are some of the best. This was a hard year for me with the loss of my mom and a number of other things, and you guys were always truly supportive and understanding. I know there is a lot of frustration and anger out there right now, and rightly so. I wish I could have done more. I truly hope one day I’ll be able to sit down for a game of SDE or RK 2.0 with some of you.

Thank you. All of you.

Does anyone know where this leaves the rest of the Ninja All-Stars conversion decks?


October 22nd, 2018, 5:03 pm
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