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 Legends Update Thread 
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Mini-Boss
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might not be the best idea to mix and match originals with printed.. while it doesn't 100% give the game away, it does make it a BIT easier to know what you are going to get ^_^

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July 22nd, 2018, 2:19 pm
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Ah i didnt mean that, i meant the two decks in the PDFs are a mix between duplicates and new ones for both the treasure and loot decks! Dont plan to mix with the legit ones i have already =p


July 22nd, 2018, 2:31 pm
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^_^ yeah, my mistake.. still good advice

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July 22nd, 2018, 2:49 pm
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Assume you’re referring to arcade? If so I updated the fk decks to match the print preview to get the appropriate balance level. It doesn’t make a major difference since some are just art updates and others don’t change power level much since you only draw a subset of the deck per game anyways. Mostly no more pet wonders.


July 22nd, 2018, 11:09 pm
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nakano wrote:
Here are some key discussions (that remain polite from all sides) collected and slightly edited:

John Cadice wrote:
We have a delayed project, it sucks, and we are working on it daily. When this snowball hit us last year, we had 5 outstanding Kickstarters we needed to dig out from under, we have delivered 2, we are delivering 2 currently, and the biggest project that needs the most attention will be when we can lock ALL missiles on the target and get it done.

Situations change, and we have to change with it to deliver. What was true one day, changes the next, the volatility of these situations, though beyond your grasp, we have tried to share, sometimes with success, sometimes with folly or false information provided to us - yet the constant remains, we are working through our troubles, delivering on our obligations (however late), we have regrettably had to withhold refunds until we deliver on projects and stem the bleeding of cost overruns and explosion of scope.

If you asked for a refund, you will get one, we will service it as soon as able. If you have any more questions, I am sure I will be seeing you soon.

To the backers reading this, thank you for your patience, we genuinely love you and are closer each day. To echo our recent posts online and in the updates, we will move content and background updates to the website, we will continue to show new dimensions of the content we have generated, we will continue to maintain a steady stream of new miniatures until and after release of 2.0 and Legends, and we will update the Kickstarter ONLY with verified and definite information regarding the start of manufacturing and delivery.
We love you all!


John Cadice wrote:
Eric J Beck wrote:
John Starck Cadice, thanks for engaging with the community. I am sorry it has turned largely into ad hominem attacks. I want to believe you when you say you are closer each day, but the last update that even mentioned anything about progress was months ago on March 23. Even that update simply said that we won't be told anything until milestones have been achieved. If you are truly getting closer every day, what is being accomplished or what is standing in the way of things being accomplished? I don't want to know all the company secrets, but I feel completely in the dark on a project that I invested a significant amount of money in (significant for me). At this point, I would consider any progress a milestone, not just the big ones of production, shipping, etc. For example, the March 23rd update said you had to move production to a new manufacturer. Some milestones in that process would be finding the new manufacturer, signing a contract, and new molds being made (if necessary). As far as I know, the new manufacturer hasn't even been chosen yet. I don't want to engage in any of the rampant speculation, but I have no actual information available to me about the status of the project. Could you please give us details about something that points to progress being made toward finishing the project?

This is all true, timetables and resources need to align, we are chipping away at and delivering on our other KS obligations in as strategic a way as possible to ensure we are not spreading ourselves thinner and dropping ALL the balls. Its a real risk, as the explosion in scope really hit hard - the product is now 2 or more KSs in content, and we have to take small bites to get it done. Its the biggest hairiest one, and requires time to move other elements in the business along as well.
So, yes, we have a new manufacturer, we are still working on elements with our old one. A full push to manufacturing is to greenlight the mold making process and purchasing of material to start the engines. The new manufacturer has offered great pricing and quality to meet our needs, so when we go, we can run separate projects, hopefully to deliver more quicker, at the very least, with some molds done and locked up at one of the factories, we will keep manufacturing with these partners as well. As there are multiple box printings, miniature sets, and materials to make.
Summarizing our progress to date:
We have COMPLETELY sculpted, designed, tested, laid out EVERY CORE product and miniatures set in the first waves of content barring the Legends Box itself, which is slotted for manufacturing in the last wave after 2.0, Arcade, and the minis hit.
We are finishing up Starfinder, starting Relic Knights delivery, and trying to streamline our operation to be more effective and to NEVER have problems like this again - the rest is our business until we can get verified confirmation that we can and have started the key milestones needed to activate and manufacture the first waves of products. Starter boxes, minis, all of it.


John Cadice wrote:
Eric J Beck wrote:
John Starck Cadice, thank you so much for that reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to go through it with me/us. May I ask if I am understanding you correctly? What I think you are saying, among other things, is that production of the Super Dungeon Kickstarter is on hold until you have cleared out some or all of your other kickstarter obligations. In that respect, daily progress toward the completion of SD is largely tied to the daily progress towards the completion of other kickstarters. I don't have a business mind, so I understand if I am oversimplifying or just plain wrong. But, I want to best utilise your attention while I have it and make sure I am understanding you to the best of my ability.

We had to rejigger a lot of things with the slippage, and as they began to run together we were losing focus and not being efficient with our resources. So, the operating strategy is ... one bite at a time, slow down and do it right, dont over extend.
With studio freed up for some while, we moved to make the minis we are putting up online for the community, a way to get you guys stuff while there was a gap. Running after everything was going to burn us worse, and we would be putting out fires, and not fixing the problem.
Thank you for asking Eric,


John Cadice wrote:
Nicholas E. Kelsch wrote:
John Starck Cadice You didn't actually answer his question... So all SDE Kickstarter tasks are 100% paused until other KS finish? So "the operating strategy is ... one bite at a time, slow down and do it right, dont over extend. " = "the SDE Kickstarter is paused and not moving forward until WotF and Starfinder are 100% done"?

WotF is delivered, Starfinder is underway, Relic Knights is underway, - and no, not 100% complete, but off and running, and managable to begin to engage the same human resources on delivering the next projects - time/money/schedule.

We still have work on the final Legends box content, so that continues as we have a bit of time. Current product cannot start until we are ready. Spending all your shekels at once means we bury a company and you guys never get your products.


John Cadice wrote:
Nakano wrote:
I would like to hear:
* How the Kickstarter projects are prioritized? Rail Riders and Way of the Fighter got prioritized probably because of being smaller scope. New game was also recently published/printed in the meantime. Will Legends (at least Wave 1) be prioritized before Relic Knights manufacturing? Above reply suggests, wave 1 was first in (planned) and is going to be last out (manufactured). I tend to see Relic Knights is going to be even more niche than SDE and SDE would sell better in retail.
* I really would like to know what happened with first factory. In KS I appreciated when project creators communicate openly.

Hi there,
First factory has molds for some products, and good printing capability. Costs climb over time, so we have to be proactive to find cost appropriate partners in some cases, as there was a lot of time since our initial quotes, any changes mean more cost on us - so, we are still with them, we still make things and will be making things with them, but to spread around the impact of such a HUGE production run of product, we needed to be as fiscally responsible as able to stabilize impact to our business. We clearly got into hot water with all the simultaneous projects, and attempted to work through them all - we said as much many times, but this one needs to be thought out and done right.
But yes, smaller bites, lower risk, move to a steady delivery and sort them out, then move on to the big monster.

It was also found out that Tetsudo Tower Explore Cards were planned and pdf will become available: "The Caveat being that they (Explore Cards) were designed for Forgotten King, and as we moved to 2.0 footing - we didnt include them because we were phasing them out ... but.... we did make some."


Just some comments, because I have to point out what they’ve done wrong and what they are continuing to do wrong.
1. From the above, they clearly had manufacturing issues and needed to switch manufacturers. This may have been self inflicted with the project rewrite delaying things that the manufacturer probably dedicated themselves to other projects (but also already had the money).
2. #1 is an entirely forgivable reason for a delay. It may not be able to shift the blame entirely away from SPM (they were probably the cause), but it gives us a reason to not get so finicky.
3. Completing other projects while this one has delivered nothing. I know SPM is a business, it has plenty of employees who can do other things too, and they can. But so far, the only issue appears to be a manufacturing issue, since the game is already done.... right?
4. The “Wave 1 is completed and waiting on printing” statement is probably another lie. If manufacturing is the issue with getting Wave 1 to our stoops, they could have asked the same manufacturer doing RRI, RK2, or the WotF figures to take the business and get it printed, even do it before those projects.
5. Our money is probably gone, and I no longer wish the best for SPM or any of the staff. Well. You still get to be well.


July 31st, 2018, 5:33 am
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Mini-Boss
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I think this was already posted and it's an interesting translation you give.. possible but interesting. there are a number of ways to take it and personally, I take most of this as pretty good news. Yes, they got too carried away with too much at one time. So they are dealing with it in smaller bites, which is good cause it means things will get done and does get done.

I'll comment that for your number 4 "probably another lie".. i'll repeat that I still don't think I've seen a lie. I've seen lack of information, I've seen expected dates missed but they stated they were what they were aiming for and hopped to get, more then set in stone..

ah, lets do a bit of a run down.. sorry ^_^
3) technically, it has delivered something but people aren't that happy with it for some reason, but never mind about that, I see no problem with them making it into much easier and manageable amount. It's annoying for the delay again but it gets the cogs moving and things working so why moan?
4) since they are making it into small manageable amounts and manufacturers don't have infinite space and resources, what makes you think they can take the moulds for wave 1 and start pouring? Also, the last bit by Mr Cadice even says WHY they can't move some to a new manufacturer "First factory has molds for some products, and good printing capability. Costs climb over time, so we have to be proactive to find cost appropriate partners in some cases, as there was a lot of time since our initial quotes, any changes mean more cost on us - so, we are still with them, we still make things and will be making things with them". so.. well, number 4 is a complete moot point here..
5) if money is gone in that way of we have to pay more to get stuff, I would say no. If money is gone as in the project costed a lot more then expected, the money went and they need to kinda raise money to give the promised stuff, then maybe. But i'll point out Banks. No bank EVER has enough money to cover what is being stored with them. If I pay in a note with a set serial number, there is almost no chance i'm getting that back. The bank will give that to someone else, and even the 'credit' value of the money the bank gives away to someone else as a loan or investment. As long as you get something back in the end, then it's a bit pointless. As long as I get the items at the end, which I have every faith in getting, and how this news was a good thing (cause it shows how they are knowing there problems and restructuring to manage it all) then I have no reason to change.

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July 31st, 2018, 9:18 am
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ManicMan wrote:
I think this was already posted and it's an interesting translation you give.. possible but interesting. there are a number of ways to take it and personally, I take most of this as pretty good news. Yes, they got too carried away with too much at one time. So they are dealing with it in smaller bites, which is good cause it means things will get done and does get done.

I'll comment that for your number 4 "probably another lie".. i'll repeat that I still don't think I've seen a lie. I've seen lack of information, I've seen expected dates missed but they stated they were what they were aiming for and hopped to get, more then set in stone..

ah, lets do a bit of a run down.. sorry ^_^
3) technically, it has delivered something but people aren't that happy with it for some reason, but never mind about that, I see no problem with them making it into much easier and manageable amount. It's annoying for the delay again but it gets the cogs moving and things working so why moan?
4) since they are making it into small manageable amounts and manufacturers don't have infinite space and resources, what makes you think they can take the moulds for wave 1 and start pouring? Also, the last bit by Mr Cadice even says WHY they can't move some to a new manufacturer "First factory has molds for some products, and good printing capability. Costs climb over time, so we have to be proactive to find cost appropriate partners in some cases, as there was a lot of time since our initial quotes, any changes mean more cost on us - so, we are still with them, we still make things and will be making things with them". so.. well, number 4 is a complete moot point here..
5) if money is gone in that way of we have to pay more to get stuff, I would say no. If money is gone as in the project costed a lot more then expected, the money went and they need to kinda raise money to give the promised stuff, then maybe. But i'll point out Banks. No bank EVER has enough money to cover what is being stored with them. If I pay in a note with a set serial number, there is almost no chance i'm getting that back. The bank will give that to someone else, and even the 'credit' value of the money the bank gives away to someone else as a loan or investment. As long as you get something back in the end, then it's a bit pointless. As long as I get the items at the end, which I have every faith in getting, and how this news was a good thing (cause it shows how they are knowing there problems and restructuring to manage it all) then I have no reason to change.



The bank example here is fundamentally flawed. When a bank takes your money into savings, etc, they typically hold that as capital in reserve -perhaps it's different in the UK, but there are strong federal laws here designed to prevent financial institutions from overextending their investments. Banks typically use long term holdings, where the "owner" of said money basically agrees not to touch the money for a period of 5-10 years, as investment capital. The owner of this money would take a hit if they requested the money back early, but stands to make some small gain on interest when the period ends.Banks use this, as well as a limited portion of earned return on investments to then make new investments, perpetuating large scale gains at a corporate level. Reserve capital simply makes them larger and safer looking, it provides a technical buffer should a large portion of account holders make a run on the bank to remove their funds, as was seen in the Great Depression.

This analogy relates rather well to the current situation though actually.

The claim that they are taking bite sized chunks is moot when Wave I is supposedly done. If this were all true and simple, Wave I would be the most financially intelligent thing for them to have manufactured as a priority -SDE is their most successful franchise, and the longer it goes without a core product on most shelves the harder it will likely be to revive retail interest. John has to be well aware of all of this, he knows his business at the very least. It's also not that hard to find a factory, first time board game designers have completed entire projects in the time since Cadice said he was ready to hit the go button -it's an issue of cash here, plain and simple. If he's chosen to prioritize other smaller projects, rather than the most profitable one, it's because they don't have the base capital required to put Wave I through manufacturing for the backers, or at least not enough that they would be able to manufacture any additional copies for retail. If they technically have 'enough' just to produce Wave I for backers right now, then they assuredly don't have enough to produce Wave II for us after that, so they'll need to sell at least some copies at retail. Additionally, if they pull a "retail first, then backers" stunt on a larger scale to produce more funds up front I'm pretty sure backers will revolt in a way that makes the worst toxicity we've seen so far look mild.

One way or another, sending SDE 2.0 to the printer isn't financially viable for them right now, and no, there's no positive spin or example that makes that look good, it isn't good. But it isn't necessarily "the end" either. It POSSIBLE that they could dig themselves out of this hole if something like the Starfinder minis, the Master class minis, or the statuettes they've started selling were to take off profitably enough for them... It honestly seems like a longshot right now, but it is possible.

If you want it to happen, if you want to support them more than you already have, you might consider supporting product they have gotten into store shelves -I can't conscienably recommend doing pre-orders on anything with them at this point, but there's nothing wrong with purchasing existing product that's ready to sell. Whether you want to do that is entirely up to you, and no one can rightfully pass judgement if you don't want to give them more of your hard earned cash before getting SDE 2.0. I've chosen to support them by purchasing existing products a couple times since things hit the proverbial fan late last year, and k don't regret that -I knew it could only help them, and I got something I was happy with immediately, win win. Again, that's not something everyone will feel like doing, so it's up to you personally.

The situation doesn't look great right now. Not even a little. But it could still happen, and there's not much we can do but wait at this point. And everybody loves waiting, right?


July 31st, 2018, 11:17 am
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I don't know if Banks have changed these days, they probably have since the days of the run on the banks and stuff. There was the big crisis a few years back due to them over extending themselves which led to a number of banks world wide closing and others having problems because of them using there money for investments and loans and getting too much bad debt.. Maybe it's a bit different in the US or UK laws have changed over the last 10-20 years.. I'll admit to being a bit out of date of that ^_^ so far point.

Quote:
The claim that they are taking bite sized chunks is moot when Wave I is supposedly done. If this were all true and simple, Wave I would be the most financially intelligent thing for them to have manufactured as a priority -SDE is their most successful franchise, and the longer it goes without a core product on most shelves the harder it will likely be to revive retail interest. John has to be well aware of all of this, he knows his business at the very least. It's also not that hard to find a factory, first time board game designers have completed entire projects in the time since Cadice said he was ready to hit the go button -it's an issue of cash here, plain and simple. If he's chosen to prioritize other smaller projects, rather than the most profitable one, it's because they don't have the base capital required to put Wave I through manufacturing for the backers, or at least not enough that they would be able to manufacture any additional copies for retail. If they technically have 'enough' just to produce Wave I for backers right now, then they assuredly don't have enough to produce Wave II for us after that, so they'll need to sell at least some copies at retail. Additionally, if they pull a "retail first, then backers" stunt on a larger scale to produce more funds up front I'm pretty sure backers will revolt in a way that makes the worst toxicity we've seen so far look mild.


While that is possible, and yes, they have stated they want to complete ones already started first, and smaller ones before getting up to the bigger bunch. I don't really think I've seen then saying that ALL SDE stuff will wait till last, I think it's kinda implied.. but the problem with implied 'read between the lines', is it is there so no firm information is given so there are no lies stated if something has to change.. I would think SDE is there most successful franchise but at the same time, there are some stuff that is much cheaper to produce and quicker, and probably gets a better return rate that way, like some of the card games.. I don't know for sure on that point. Might be interesting to compile a quick list of what stuff include SDE they have to deal with at the moment, what's done, roughtly work out the production order etc to give a better idea of things..

Quote:
One way or another, sending SDE 2.0 to the printer isn't financially viable for them right now, and no, there's no positive spin or example that makes that look good, it isn't good. But it isn't necessarily "the end" either. It POSSIBLE that they could dig themselves out of this hole if something like the Starfinder minis, the Master class minis, or the statuettes they've started selling were to take off profitably enough for them... It honestly seems like a longshot right now, but it is possible.


possible, again, hard to say either way. With how a decent company (no cracks on this bit) should handle money expensives in relation to income, spreading it over should be the way to do it regardless of if they have the money to get everything poured right this instant or not.

Quote:
If you want it to happen, if you want to support them more than you already have, you might consider supporting product they have gotten into store shelves -I can't conscienably recommend doing pre-orders on anything with them at this point, but there's nothing wrong with purchasing existing product that's ready to sell. Whether you want to do that is entirely up to you, and no one can rightfully pass judgement if you don't want to give them more of your hard earned cash before getting SDE 2.0. I've chosen to support them by purchasing existing products a couple times since things hit the proverbial fan late last year, and k don't regret that -I knew it could only help them, and I got something I was happy with immediately, win win. Again, that's not something everyone will feel like doing, so it's up to you personally.


There are basically very VERY little gaming stores anywhere near me.. Even less that stock a range of stuff and no-one that stocks anything like SDE. Though one I visit regularly (once every few months really) in a near by town has had a bit of interest in wanting to get into stocking some SDE and related stuff and I've talked to them about it. They stock some Army Builder paints but not the SDE set which I wouldn't order specially but might pick up if it was in store. With the new Spainish and UK teams, I'm able to get hold of a bit more stuff. The June trio turned up the other day and I've got orders for the last two I should get next month (probably near the end).

Quote:
The situation doesn't look great right now. Not even a little. But it could still happen, and there's not much we can do but wait at this point. And everybody loves waiting, right?


I don't quite see that.. I think a bit of time, but like I said, i'd like to make up a rundown list of there products and production to see about an idea of how far they have to go. While people can debate it, lets go with what they have said really:
WotF: Delivered but some Crossover/Extra bits to do
Starfinder: Wave 1 done, Wave 2 underway
Relic Knights: currently doing something, I'm not quite sure on, I need to look into that
SD: Wave 1 awaiting, Wave 2 minor work and tweaks still underway.

might be missing something.. not sure.. As they are pacing, it doesn't look too bad for some next year work as it's gotten to a more manageable and controlled status now. So I see the situation as not being bad for it happening, just a bit more time. As I live in the UK and this is an American game, I spend a lot of time waiting. In fact, most stuff I order and have to deal with involves a lot of waiting.. wonder if it's a kinda English thing..

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July 31st, 2018, 11:48 am
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We have a lot of common ground on that, and to be clear I didn't intend to suggest that folks outside the US "aren't contributing" in any way or are unwilling to consider buying -if the product isn't readily available then it isn't readily available. That's not your fault.

There was one item I wanted to clarify: you said that you don't thing "ALL SDE stuff will wait till last", but I'm confused by this. If Wave I is going first (it's the only part truly ready), and Wave I has to wait until the other projects are done... How does that not preclude the rest of the content from being manufactured? I mean, they're going to do the Core first so they can get that back on shelves, it's a no brainier. It's early here, so perhaps my tired brain is overlooking something?


July 31st, 2018, 12:04 pm
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no problem or anything ^_^ no offense taken at all.

I said I didn't think I saw them saying it'll all wait till last. I probably missed the bit where he said that Wave 1 of SD won't be delivered until all other projects are done. It's more probably me missing something ^_^

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July 31st, 2018, 12:13 pm
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Makes sense, I just didn't want to assume I was taking everything into account when my brain still hadn't had coffee... Yet here I am looking through D&D books and doing math. Something may be wrong with me, lol.


July 31st, 2018, 12:17 pm
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^_^ i'm trying to figure out some coding in a language I haven't used in about 10 years ^_^;

Oh and screw coffee, I'm a Pepsi guy if you want to keep awake, Oh or electric shock. That really wakes you up when your fry yourself with a PC power pack or mains plug.

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July 31st, 2018, 12:22 pm
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Lets get some talk going ^_^

Celestians.. I'm getting a bit confused with them.. Celestians are a race. They appear as Winged Humans through it's possible some might not have wings (we don't know when Vulcanis fell and if he had the 'species mark' wings before he did.). The first one released was the Celestial Herald in the Von Drakk's manor level set. This was a Female Celestian hero. The next one was the Herald of Vulcanis/Dark Denturion. This was a fallen Celestian (a Dark Celestian), who as part of the fall, lost his wings. Some try to regan the goddess's grace later on.

Now, we get into confusion time.. Celestians was always the term for the people of the race from Celestia floating in the sky. That's fine. But we see the first figure released used the term 'Celestial' in the name. The Explore handbook uses the term again when referring to one of the cites it seams "What little contact the mortal races have with them is limited to brief encounters with the few celentians who posses a rare curiously to explore beyond the celestial city". There is said to only be ONE city still floating in the paragraph before "the sole remaining city of celestia" though we know there are other islands, (called oleyentos) which still remain floating. Maybe the odd village on them, but no cities over then the one. So, depending grammer, it seams the island 'country' is Celestia. The race from there are Celestians. the city is referred to as 'Celestial'. (by the way, we are not so much using earth time grammar when used in fantasy terms.. it doesn't work.. Not even in DnD). Since the Heralds Card flavour text seams to imply she is sent as a Herald (and there are more then one herald sent from the city, she is therefore a Celestial Herald.

Yep.. that's all fine.. Now So how is this confusing? The Celestial Healer! The Celestial Healer is a Centaur and clearly not a Celestian. Legends introduces the Celestial Healers as Clerics without a tie to a race, just one that has chosen to follow the Goddess and calm to be an older order then the Temple of light (the Midnight Tower) which seams a bit doubtful. Unlike other followers, they choose a path of peace more but still fight. The Temple of light followers (the Sisters of Light), also first appeared in the Von Drakk set and where the same outfit as the Celestial Healers, more or less. So where did this term come from? could it be implied that the original Celestial healers were in fact, Celestians? or is this just a partly poorly named (in fiction) group which just happen to sound like Celestians but aren't related at all?

just for minor interest, the term 'Celestial' means of or from outside this world, mostly from the sky, Originally from the Latin meaning 'Heaven' but this is Heaven as in more 'above the skies' not 100% the same as the place where a lot of religions place there god(s).

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August 2nd, 2018, 8:19 pm
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@ManicMan - I think you might be overthinking it :). I chalked it up to SPM doesn't draw straight lines and the ones that do get drawn are easily blurred for their purposes.

Celestian - race of winged humanoids
Dark Celestian - Celestian that fell and follows the Dark Consul, thus losing their wings (and likely change skin tone or whatever I can't remember from lore).
Celestia - Last remaining city of Celestians that floats in the sky on an Oleyento.
Celestial - an Adjective relating to the Goddess.

Celestial Herald - SDE heroine and SDL job. A herald of the goddess. The model happens to be a Celestian.

Celestial Healer - SDE heroine and SDL job. A healer of the goddess. The model happens to be a Centaur.

I don't think a Celestial Herald or Celestial Healer need be Celestian, Centaur, or otherwise, as intended by SDL.


August 2nd, 2018, 9:31 pm
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Until we see more official lore /shrug. It may be that the Celestians were the original Celestial Healers, too, or maybe race has nothing to do with it.

Sisters of Light and Celestial Healers are both Jobs for the Cleric Class in SDL and both follow the goddess, but have different abilities. It doens't bother me that they have similar outfits. Even the Rock Singer, a Druid, which is not represented in SDL atm, has a similar color scheme.


August 2nd, 2018, 9:33 pm
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Possible ^_^ that then goes for the same word 2 different meanings route. The bit about the sisters of light and celestial healers outfits was more a interesting note like it's a generic 'nun' outfit, if you will.

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August 2nd, 2018, 9:58 pm
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Mmm...yeah. I don't know that the SDE Lore has really done anything with fashion and attire so for example, is there even a specific uniform for Crown Guard? Or Royal paladins?

And it goes back to how much of the product was created and they're backfilling lore. We know they already changed some of the original lore (with the assumption that they will expand it), e.g. Kagejima, the Midnight Tower, etc.

I'm ok waiting to see what they come up with b/c I what they've already shared will (hopefully) be cleaned up b/f it gets to us.


August 2nd, 2018, 10:09 pm
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yeah, no problem with it at all. Just i'm interested in such things ^_^

Kagejima change?.. Ninja Ambush thing?
The midnight Tower, yep.. the removal of the lava lake, replacing with the Void quite early, but then changing to having some seemingly physical link with grass.. I'll be interested in seeing the new map if it changes.

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August 2nd, 2018, 10:13 pm
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So how does the Sun Empire fit in with Kagejima?

We have the Sun Empire Wandering Samuarai and Hanzo was in the Sun Empire for awhile.

I was thinking of what the probability was of getting more SDE releases from Kagejima or if it's already at capacity due to the high influx of NAS (6 warbands and dozens of heroes and maybe a dozen bosses).

And if not Kagejima, then the Sun Empire, and how that'd maybe differ?

Assuming SPM is able to execute SDL and continue to grow the SDE universe, they still have multiple SDE zones to explore, but I do wonder what NAS products were in the queue that might come to SDE.

And since SPM has mentioned that they are (one day) planning NAS 2.0, what that'd mean for the current NAS in SDE if NAS 2.0 will just be a ruleset and cards to co-use with SDE or something else altogether.

--also-- any thoughts on the latest NAS crossover lore posts? The corruption of Kagejima is not the same as the Dark Consul (which is what I had assumed). I don't know if there was anything in NAS to allude to a manifestation of corruption and/or what significance it may have to the flowers left to the Moon Princess.


August 3rd, 2018, 3:34 pm
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Never got into Ninja Ambush. one of these 'fantasy romanticised ninja' things.. never really interest me. Jinichi Kawakami's Musuem would. He is the LAST real world Ninja and he laughs at the American 'super human' ninja stuff.. of course, these days American culture is big in japan and they started to do more stuff in japan based on the American idea.. In a way, it's pretty much the same level of racisim as showing Japanese as being bucked teeth with thick glasses and greasy hair.. but since they don't really take it as offensive, it's not classed as racist.. Which is fine with me. Though I find American media is EXTREMELY racist in it's portrayal of English people and as an English person, I take great offence of some of them (there was one message board I was on where they used the American rubbish of "All English people have bad teeth and genevictis' (can't spell that) which appears a lot in American stuff.. Even to the point some words I said were 'censored' into terms referring to them portrayals.... how people can get away with that but can't with other highly offensive stereotypes I don't know.. I'm not the only English person I know that takes offense at such rubbish.. though we do get to take the mickey out of Americans think we all talk like we are thick people from Manchester or 18th century cockneys..

anyway.. back onto topic.. Not get into Ninja Ambush so I don't know how the lore books tie up the land with the rest of the world.. SDE did always keep it as just one place.. but very fantasy based in the big divides between 'kingdom' level of tech and skills. So Ninja Ambush ones have stated the 'Sun empire' is a different land mass then the normal 'Kagajima' land mass? could still work fine.. i'm not sure.. What's the information on NA?

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August 3rd, 2018, 4:11 pm
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