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 Legends Update Thread 
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Minion
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As I see it, established users have credibility in my book until they start pushing falsehoods as fact. It's one of the reasons that I tend to include caveats such as "correct me if I'm wrong" in some of my posts -I recognize that there may be potential that I'm missing information... or that my wonderful human memory is doing that wonderful thing that human memory does, and 'filling in the gaps' with something that SOUNDS right to me. (There have been some fascinating studies on just how often the average adult's mind does that... It's a lot.) But I digress...


I had an odd thought that's totally unrelated to this portion of the discussion, but IS related to the Legends Updates... What if they started getting the fanbase a little more involved in those? That might sound weird, but I feel like maybe putting up a page on the overall ND/SPM site for specific Legends-related content could be interesting. For example, after posting those Forgotten King alts in the update, they include the link to a page where fans can submit PHOTOS of their own minis painted up to look like those new alt variants. I'm specifically suggesting that it be kept to just photos of painted minis, not fan art or anything else... That would create way too broad a category, and I can't even begin to imagine the volume of stuff they'd have to sift through if it were open to anything. I've seen fan art boards for games/anime/etc. -some of it can get pretty overtly creepy... and then some of it just gets downright fetishistic. I don't think SPM wants to wade through that particular pool of muck, if they really want to build in some quality control, they could make a new thread for it every two weeks here (lock the old one, but don't delete it, so that people can see past submissions). If a user submits offensive images, they can be banned; and they'd be likely to follow the rules pretty closely if everyone else could see what they've submitted there.

A couple weeks later, SPM could start off the next update with the one or two of the best submissions they received within 7-10 days of posting that update. That way, each update would start with fan-generated examples relating to the previous update -making the fans feel more involved in a way, giving them something positive to do with their energy while they wait, and maybe even getting them a little more pumped for the product again. SPM could post the rest of their [non]update below the chosen user submissions, and close out by telling people what sort of user submissions they'd like to see for the following update. We've got a decent community of painters from what I've seen, and I'm sure they'd love to have their work shown off and recognized by the creators of the game. If push came to shove, and they weren't getting many submissions, perhaps SPM could devise something low-cost to offer as a reward each week to the winner (maybe a copy of the corresponding card for what they painted, signed by Deke and the artist(s) who made the card art? That would be cheap for SPM to produce a small batch of, if they don't already have any physical samples or extra proofs on hand that they could part with.)

It wouldn't fix the issue that updates have basically not been updates for months now, but it might at least make things a little more positive, and give at least a little bit of the community a chance to feel more like they're being heard by the company in SOME way... Even if they did the contest idea with it, shipping a card or two signed by their own employees would have virtually no noticeable cost to the company, and I'm sure fans would love a chance to get officially printed copies of some of the characters cards with autographs. People might genuinely look forward to the updates again, without cynicism. Just a random thought.


March 6th, 2018, 1:56 pm
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Mini-Boss
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
ManicMan wrote:
in line. Never seen them gone for me.. not cached either.

http://www.TESP.co.uk/SDE/update.png
took a quick screenshot of this one to show. not that a digital image means much but oh well


Here's the thing ManicMan:
Coming from you, a CUSTOMER(not a company representative), it does mean a lot here. Sure, you're usually more quick to defend SPM than you seem like you would be to cry fowl on them -but you're an established user, with a track record for being a reasonable and logically sound person. So yes, your image and your word here hold great value. I appreciate the additional details on that, because it provides me with additional clarity.




I love it when we can talk nicely to one another and all get along! :D

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March 6th, 2018, 2:25 pm
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I had kinda hopped that an update to there site (both of which seam a mess) would happen at some point. Back to how the site use to be in a way..

For example, Wallpapers don't take too long to make, but there hasn't been any new ones since Forgotten King. Avatars aren't greatly of interest to me but no update for them since original Box set groups. The site also gave extra downloads in the fact of Black-handed Henry Potion Party rules, Alchemist Cards and Potion Cards, the Forgotten King Classic and Arcade Rules some B&W art (some of which was used to make the colouring book, which, while nice, I felt a couple of the images were blown up too big so they were very ... low res.. They also gave extra cards like Foreign translations when needed.

Now, since then, which are all First Release stuff, with Some forgotten king, there isn't too much more. We have had a new Digital only card release but since there isn't that 'archive' nature due to the site being out of date, that digital only card is hidden deep in the KS.. (the card was to allow you to play the Alchemist as a mini-boss by the way). Since they are doing a bit of a push on Digital content with a number of Digital only missions, why can't this part of the site be updated to give more stuff like that.

and yes, limit 'reward' cards are such a staple of the old days of Trading Cards (and slightly trading card games) that they can be a good low cost reward ^_^

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March 6th, 2018, 2:31 pm
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ManicMan wrote:
I had kinda hopped that an update to there site (both of which seam a mess) would happen at some point. Back to how the site use to be in a way..

For example, Wallpapers don't take too long to make, but there hasn't been any new ones since Forgotten King. Avatars aren't greatly of interest to me but no update for them since original Box set groups. The site also gave extra downloads in the fact of Black-handed Henry Potion Party rules, Alchemist Cards and Potion Cards, the Forgotten King Classic and Arcade Rules some B&W art (some of which was used to make the colouring book, which, while nice, I felt a couple of the images were blown up too big so they were very ... low res.. They also gave extra cards like Foreign translations when needed.

Now, since then, which are all First Release stuff, with Some forgotten king, there isn't too much more. We have had a new Digital only card release but since there isn't that 'archive' nature due to the site being out of date, that digital only card is hidden deep in the KS.. (the card was to allow you to play the Alchemist as a mini-boss by the way). Since they are doing a bit of a push on Digital content with a number of Digital only missions, why can't this part of the site be updated to give more stuff like that.

and yes, limit 'reward' cards are such a staple of the old days of Trading Cards (and slightly trading card games) that they can be a good low cost reward ^_^

If they make a wallpaper are people here going to complain like they do when there is a tidbit of new fiction?


March 6th, 2018, 2:51 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Jestor wrote:
If they make a wallpaper are people here going to complain like they do when there is a tidbit of new fiction?


Let's not get sarcastic now, people were being so pleasant!

Besides, let's not confuse the reason for people getting upset over "tidbits of fiction". when said pieces of fiction are meant to replace an actual update with the Kickstarter, people get upset. We just want to know what is happening with the Kickstarter. Telling us about centaurs just doesn't cut it.

So make the wallpaper. I'm sure people will love it.

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March 6th, 2018, 3:24 pm
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Denizen
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1. Here's a bunch of fiction and flavor text for the game you don't have yet that features miniatures we don't make! (not a good update)

2. Here's where we are with production. Also, look at this punk rock wallpaper we made you. (good update)


March 6th, 2018, 5:07 pm
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Denizen
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InfinityMax wrote:
1. Here's a bunch of fiction and flavor text for the game you don't have yet that features miniatures we don't make! (not a good update)

2. Here's where we are with production. Also, look at this punk rock wallpaper we made you. (good update)


This! I said it before and I'll say it again.

"heard you guys are interested production status after no update for a while, HERES A CENTAUR!!! LOOK AT IT! LOVE IT" Felt like a kick in the junk.

So to say people would be upset about the wallpaper is not exactly on point. With SPM saying there wil be a big update this month with production, if they posted a bad !SODA! wallpaper and nothing else. Yes it would be met with roughly enough salt to cover the earth and all it's bodies of water.

However, if it is, hey look, here's the deal, heres our definites. Dude, check this wallpaper. Everyone will be tickled.


March 6th, 2018, 6:47 pm
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Denizen
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InfinityMax wrote:
1. Here's a bunch of fiction and flavor text for the game you don't have yet that features miniatures we don't make! (not a good update)

2. Here's where we are with production. Also, look at this punk rock wallpaper we made you. (good update)



Haha! Fact!


March 6th, 2018, 6:47 pm
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I'm a bit perplexed. I don't spend much time poking around the internet so things tend to pass me by for quite a while until I come out of hibernation and catch up. Having gotten frustrated with the lack of genuine updates I went poking around the web this afternoon and came across a bunch of pictures from Gen Con 2016 on the facebook page for "tabletop gaming news"' which show production proofs or somesuch (3d printed? cast? no idea) of Lightning mage, Rage Fiend and the Crown guard. I don't remember being shown these models (as in real photos rather than CGI sculpt images) in any of the updates.

Did I miss an update somewhere? I went digging and all I could find was nether elves, spiders etc. I found their Gen Con update from 2016 and it didn't show these models either.

If I didn't miss anything... it makes me wonder how many of these master models or test models or whatever they have sitting around that they could be showing us? I know I would find it a lot more reassuring as evidence of progress than just seeing the CG sculpts etc. Seeing a real tangible obect is a lot more exciting for me personally.

Also... absolutely agree that the fluff etc feels particularly frustrating when it isn't accompanied by an update on production. "No news on production" is still an update on production. I'd be perfectly happy to hear "We are waiting to hear from our chinese partners" or whatever... I get that these things take a long time, but when we get updates that feel like the lightweight ones you usually get in the dead time when a product is in boats on the ocean or whatever it's really frustrating.


March 6th, 2018, 9:25 pm
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there was early printed samples, some test shots, and mostly the molds as well as a complete dump of CG sculpts.

easiest way to show ya:
Test Shot from the production molds for some Arcade Heroes:
http://ninjadivision.com/wp-content/upl ... 33x400.jpg

Test shot from.. mostly knight of the tower with Spider Nest and probably caller
http://ninjadivision.com/wp-content/upl ... _distr.jpg

Test Shot from Spider minions:
http://ninjadivision.com/wp-content/upl ... istr11.jpg

for the steel molds.. i'll dig out the link sometime.. probably tomorrow i'm afraid

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March 6th, 2018, 9:31 pm
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Thanks ManicMan, those are the ones I had found too (along with the shots of the molds and some closeups of the nether elves etc a month or so ago)

Meanwhile all the way back in 2016 at Gen Con they had all these models on display :
https://www.facebook.com/pg/tabletopgamingnews/photos/?tab=album&album_id=10153872156577945

I feel like I must have missed them posting their own images of this stuff (Given that they were happy to display it at Gen Con some 18 months ago)... but I can't seem to find any evidence of it happening? I would have thought it would make a good update, given that they did it with the Nether Elves.


March 6th, 2018, 10:53 pm
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yep, they were early test prints by the company. So basically 3d printer jobs. no molds or anything. but out side that con, they didn't post the images.. which was kinda annoying

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March 6th, 2018, 10:56 pm
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Ahh, makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up!

I find the communications throughout this whole campaign to be baffling. Even when they actually have something interesting in hand... Nada. They could have written one small paragraph about how they 3d print the models to check them before looking at tooling etc and shared those minis...

I'm so careful not to sound negative as I'm still really passionate for the game and the company in general (in terms of the products they produce)... But I'm just surprised that they don't have anyone in house who is a bit more savvy when it comes to PR.

I have to prepare retail reports at work for monthly meetings with the higher ups ...so I fully understand how difficult it can be to make something out of nothing when you've had a slow month or whatever...but it's amazing how far a good progress chart or a bit of statistics/analysis etc can go to fleshing out communications and making them satisfying for the target audience! It might be tedious to have to be so granular...but even if all you've done this week is finalise a tile design or change the wording on page 15 of the rulebook... Well... You'd better stick that stuff in a big font and shout it from the rooftops ;) at least then it maintains some kind of momentum.

Anyway... Preaching to the choir here I know!


March 6th, 2018, 11:19 pm
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Mini-Boss
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While you should expect a bit more due to the way the company 'crowd funded' (which is both a pro and a con in my mind but that's too long a story and not for here), remember that most companies can spend years and years on something and the first you know about it is when it's out.. or you know they are working on it but then you don't hear progress for years.. I remember back when I was more into Gamesworkshop stuff, they released the new race (which was basically an update of an old one) called the 'nercons'.. they flopped badly.. they then claimed it was because they were designed for version 4 rules but cause they didn't want to wait till that version was ready, they decided to release them for Version 3.. pretty much killed them as a race... too crap.

In a way, It would have been very easy for Soda pop to release an early product that would have killed a brand then to wait.. but then, the wait and communications have hurt them.. In the long run, despite what people claim to say and think, I can truly say its almost impossible to know what would have hurt the brand and company more.. a quick rushed flop product, or a delayed with lack of information and communication product..

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March 6th, 2018, 11:30 pm
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Mini-Boss
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ManicMan wrote:
yep, they were early test prints by the company. So basically 3d printer jobs. no molds or anything. but out side that con, they didn't post the images.. which was kinda annoying

According to Justine, the models seen at Gencon 2016 are test casts from the production molds. See Here and Here.


Last edited by Imriel on March 6th, 2018, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.



March 6th, 2018, 11:31 pm
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really? possible.. they look a bit clean.. I can't remember who told me they were prints.. it was some time back.. oh well.. live and learn.

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March 6th, 2018, 11:34 pm
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Minion
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Here's the Siege of the Citadel update that just came out (alas, without images 'cause I don't want to bother).
Squint your eyes and try to image how great it would be if we got something like this.
For those arguing about the definition of "production", this is what a production update looks like.

Production Update (March 5th)

Hi there with Chinese New Year at and end we're now seeing a flow of things starting to happen. Firstly on the pledge manager we'll be keeping this open until we have final volumetric costs on the box shipping and have completed the shipping payment phase. The factory are checking the final dimensions required. Our warehouse just managed to reduce the shipping fees for tracked parcels so the delays have helped there for you all. We will give plenty of notice of the shipping payment phase starting and aim to give you as long as possible to complete that.

Next up, the factory completed some required amends on the miniatures - you can see examples below where we checked the scaling - some of the original 3D prints had been incorrect, and you can see the revised prints below.

The tooling on these is underway with the factory and when we will get the first plastic samples we'll show them off. At that stage we have to confirm if we're happy with the quality of samples, if not the factory would make minor tweaks to the tooling to remove any small issues. The Ezoghoul is much bigger than the original game!

The dice tooling is underway and we're expecting samples soon, and we're waiting on feedback on the plastic stairwell and character boards next.

We'll be sending out the final files for the counter sheets which go to print later this week, these include all the tiles, Dark Legion reference cards, counters etc.

During the layout phase I grabbed a quick still of the character cards - this is during the addition of the character art. You can see the coding for ranged, melee etc had not been added at this stage. I'll be sending out the card decks once we get print proofs back so you can see what they all look like.

Here's a preview of a couple of the summary cards included in the core box - here the turn summaries for both sides.

The rulebook and mission book are the last to be prepared as they take the shortest time to print so we've held them as long as possible for final checks, and testing. The missions all checked out great and our internal playtesters completed the final mission text a couple of weeks back. Thanks so much for all the feedback you sent in we've incorporated what made sense and corrected errors. The layout on both of these will be the last things you see however we're sending out the AI rules and missions text this week for preview.

That's it for today, expect a bigger update later this week with a lot of print files for components to check out. We'll instead be adding these as downloads to the Pledge Manager account as now we're moving in to a phase where we're showing off complete components.

Chris, Modiphius


March 7th, 2018, 3:37 am
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Minion
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Hey, I've been pushing this sentiment for literally months now. Even giving some similarly written examples to show how easy it would be.

While I'm not happy with this latest "update", at least it didn't insult us with more nonsense fluff that isn't even relevant to the product. On the flip side, it's hard to call something an update when it literally contains the same links they gave out months ago, and says "more information is coming soon."
Gee, is it? Thanks.

Maybe telling us WHEN that information should be seen would be pretty handy.

At the same time though, at least it drops the charade that has clearly been frustrating a lot of us. There is a part of me that is admittedly a bit nervous after seeing them lose several licenses, and the demise of another big project they were heavily involved in... But, the fact that they're still selling these resin models might be an indication that they're raising the funds necessary to get this thing going, and that gives me at least a little bit of hope that we may see something before 2019.


March 9th, 2018, 2:52 pm
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dsdrew924 wrote:
InfinityMax wrote:
1. Here's a bunch of fiction and flavor text for the game you don't have yet that features miniatures we don't make! (not a good update)

2. Here's where we are with production. Also, look at this punk rock wallpaper we made you. (good update)


This! I said it before and I'll say it again.

"heard you guys are interested production status after no update for a while, HERES A CENTAUR!!! LOOK AT IT! LOVE IT" Felt like a kick in the junk.

So to say people would be upset about the wallpaper is not exactly on point. With SPM saying there wil be a big update this month with production, if they posted a bad !SODA! wallpaper and nothing else. Yes it would be met with roughly enough salt to cover the earth and all it's bodies of water.

However, if it is, hey look, here's the deal, heres our definites. Dude, check this wallpaper. Everyone will be tickled.


I do really like the illustrated example of how players can use the centaur model as a cleric, instead of playing only her normal role (hunter warrior...?). However, I failed to realize that the update was more of a lore update, rather than an actual "Hey, here are some cool variants you can do with the currently available models!" Wouldn't it have been nice to see a few other illustrations of other (current) chibis in different roles? Oh well, was a bit of a missed opportunity, and only had me wanting for there to be a cleric centaur model... </3

On a separate note, jeez. Even going back to their late September update, it's so demoralizing how they wanted to improve their communication back then, but have been doing a pretty poor job as of late. That, and reading through more of the comments of people pissed off wanting refunds and not getting them, the whole thing is just draining my excitement and support for all of this. Honestly, I really do want to enjoy the game and support the company, but I find myself hesitating due to all these issues that keep arising (especially with the recent VDay Candy + Walrus nonsense). Not that I'd ask for a refund myself, but the level of consumer distrust going on is really upsetting to see.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/so ... ts/2002230

I do hope that they can somehow properly redeem themselves, but I'm unsure how they'd even be able to pull it off...


March 9th, 2018, 3:45 pm
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Minion
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I don't think it's for any lack of 'want' on their part to make this happen. I get the distinct impression looking at their other projects in the last couple years, that this is not only the biggest project they've undertaken, but that what they're trying to deliver is far bigger than they were necessarily prepared for when they started.

That said, I do think they're making a real effort to deliver here. As far as I know Rail Riders Infinite is all shipped worldwide (please correct me if I'm mistaken there), and it sounds like Way of the Fighter is as well (aside from those miniatures people ordered... Which I gather will be produced at the same time as Super Dungeon 2.0 is -that's purely an assumption, and nothing else. At this point, Ninja Division is potentially working through final touches of their StarFindet models for approval (haven't looked at the KS, just estimating development time there) -Super Dungeon hasn't needed new modeling work in quite some time, so that shouldn't be a negative impact that I can imagine.

So, with SPM's other projects winding down, it's time to buckle down and focus on getting this one out. Doing a couple resin models each month to bring in some extra scratch and maybe go towards keeping the lights on might irritate me at some points, but ultimately it's not a bad strategy; I just hope that whatever they roll out next isn't anothef $40 oversized piece. I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing a decent sized new boss though, if that was $40 I might bite.

Resin strategy aside, I think we're at the point where it's kind of "s___ or get off the pot" for SPM. And while I can't read John all too well, Deke clearly doesn't want to let this franchise of it's parent company die. He might be a little over-excitable at times, but I don't see him letting this project come to an end if he can make it happen, it's a passion project for him, and I think he feels some level of conviction about delivering to his fans. That's just my take, I'm going to try and be optimistic that we might see some good things in the near future, maybe some things to get really get excited about. Fingers crossed.


March 13th, 2018, 4:14 am
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