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 Legends Update Thread 
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Consul
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dezmug62 wrote:
I reckon Justin has gone for good and he was the only one who should be allowed out in public.

Nephastus wrote:
Justin made an excellent job on rulebook tweaks, but he was a temporary employee.


Wait what...?! Is Justin not employed anymore? He was the best thing that ever happened for SDE - and SPM for that matter.
Why? Literally fire two other guys and double Justin's pay!

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February 16th, 2018, 1:45 pm
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Denizen
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He left citing personal family issues. If Sodapop are in money trouble it was a good way to cut over heads.


February 16th, 2018, 2:05 pm
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Mini-Boss
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It sucks that Justin's absence is right in the middle with all this drama. I really hope he is still on board and we'll hear from him soon. I want to hear his input on Legends.


February 16th, 2018, 3:14 pm
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Minion
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Goblin-King wrote:
dezmug62 wrote:
I reckon Justin has gone for good and he was the only one who should be allowed out in public.

Nephastus wrote:
Justin made an excellent job on rulebook tweaks, but he was a temporary employee.


Wait what...?! Is Justin not employed anymore? He was the best thing that ever happened for SDE - and SPM for that matter.
Why? Literally fire two other guys and double Justin's pay!


He left on family leave and the suspicion is that it was an excuse he gave to exit the premises with little backlash and he's not coming back. I'm inclined to agree, but who knows for sure, right? :D


February 16th, 2018, 8:13 pm
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Justin said Legends to be Deke's project so I think Justin wasn't actively working on that. Sure he could still help with that, but he completed his share of work and his input isn't necessarily currently required. So I don't think he comes back and need to find another employer until Soda Pop Miniatures/Ninja Division is able to offer a new project. He sadly may not be available on that day.


February 16th, 2018, 8:34 pm
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If SPM/ND let Justin go to anything else instead of keeping him on their projects, they done screwed up on one of the only things they had going for them. That's severely disappointing to hear.


February 16th, 2018, 11:10 pm
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Mini-Boss
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There is nothing official... only speculation. I just hope we hear from him again soon.


February 17th, 2018, 2:15 am
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Quote:
There is nothing official... only speculation
Whev, I already started to search where was the info that he was leaving - Justin joining rules making was kinda my saviour on soda pop (added bosses of legend when he joined the team) as I knew his work in Wyrd and I really liked it.

But on the update - yeah, dissapointed here too, I wouldn't mind announcing that it's late. I just wish we knew where the status really is, I can wait as long as it takes but just blatantly being silent and holding information in secret feels kinda rude for the fans. For example I really appreciate newest giga-robo micromessage the maker made telling that one artist is ill, they might need bit more time to make the art etc etc.

And I find it absolutely terrifying/hilarious that no one in Soda Pop has bothered to answer in the thread "rumour at the con"... that's some good PR there, should probs take some notes about it and present it in class sometimes as an example.


February 17th, 2018, 8:34 am
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eternaldream wrote:
There is nothing official... only speculation. I just hope we hear from him again soon.

I hope the rumors are wrong, but, then again, the first indication we got that Neko was gone was the change in his forum name.

Nekrah wrote:
Whev, I already started to search where was the info that he was leaving - Justin joining rules making was kinda my saviour on soda pop (added bosses of legend when he joined the team) as I knew his work in Wyrd and I really liked it.

Justine made an announcement in the comments section of the KS that he would be taking a leave of absence due to family health issues.


February 17th, 2018, 12:55 pm
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Yeah, I definitely hope the best for Justin and his family. Definitely miss his presence on the kickstarter page. As someone unable to actually post there it was nice that he at least somewhat kept the tone over there better than what it's become in his absence. Having someone from the company with a clear passion for the game (and understanding of the frustration of the player/customer base) went a long way.

It's funny over there cause I keep seeing references to kickstarters done right with things like Kingdom Death 1.5, and that SodaPop can't or won't recover. It's a pretty abysmal situation to be sure, but KD 1 had a similar crazy set of delays, but put out a product that was impeccable and won people back and won many new fans. Hopefully the sodapop team can do the same, knock SDE V2 out of the park and follow up shortly thereafter with an amazing Legends package. Win back current/lost fans and bring in a whole new group.

Communication would go a long way to start that now, but we all know that. Even that message from John on the Chibi Gamers FB would have been good preface to the last update. Reword it enough to make it a communication to backers, then on to the lore. Just at least state to the backers the awareness and continued work. It'll ring hollow to many, you'll still catch flack, but it'll be better than the situation as it stands. I imagine even if the situation was such that RK and SDE are both ready for production and they're trying to print and ship both together for easier logistics (and cheaper expense) it would be met with snark but also appreciation.


February 17th, 2018, 11:21 pm
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At this point, I think it's fair for most of us to be skeptical, or even cynical, of anything they tell us. Realistically, we've seen claims of progress that we were later told still weren't done. I've said it before, but skepticism or even cymicism is not the same as outright douchebaggery. If they start updating us, REALLY updating us, it's fair to be unhappy, but not to lash out in a way that is unproductive or uncalled for.

After the famous "ready to hit the go button" statement, they've had opportunities to blend manufacturing with other projects as it is. If things were ready, and they wanted to save on manufacturing and/or shipping costs, they could have combined with one of the last two projects fulfilled (and, ironically STARTED after SDL). I'm not saying they won't combine things, that still seems likely. But I'm looking at the number of backers we can SEE on Legends, and the number of backers we can see on RRI and on WotF. Legends has a lot more customers, and I can't help wondering if SPM couldn't combine them because they couldn't afford to produce the total volume of Wave I boxes they need to take care of their backers. Again, that's all speculation, as anything else of the sort has been.

The fact that many of us would be skeptical or cynical of any update they post doesn't mean that they shouldn't. In fact, it's the opposite. Continuous, meaningful, and honest updates are the only way to improve the situation. Not trying to make it sound better than it is, not trying to calm us down by any words they can. If they can come forward with valid explanations of what happened to the April delivery (because we're nearing March, and the quotes from John on Facebook seem to indicate an understanding that they are nowhere near being able to deliver on April), if they can tell us what happened, what has actually progressed, and what is happening next... That sort of thing would help to get their relationship with customers (and I suspect, the overall industry) on the right track again.

As it stands, I'm concerned that their failure to deliver on time, and to communicate effectively, coupled with the negativity that their silence is allowing to grow rampant... Well, it doesn't make prospective business partners look at them as someone to be trusted, and I imagine that bigger gaming retailers see this sort of thing and worry that the negative relationship with consumers might result in significantly lower sales of future products. Damage to one's reputation can cast a wide net of problems.


February 19th, 2018, 11:21 pm
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Quote:
because we're nearing March, and the quotes from John on Facebook seem to indicate an understanding that they are nowhere near being able to deliver on April),


Since i don't have facebook and only go there under extreme duress, the only comment i've seen posted from is facebook says they are probebly doing pretty well on the delievery side.. which is odd..... anyway.. can you quote the comments here?

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February 19th, 2018, 11:34 pm
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I've tried to find some of John's comments on FB for you. This is the latest one I can find.

Feb 6th: I'm here guys, We have been working through our log jam of projects. Needed to move the projects out that we could, as the SDE product got way out of hand in terms of size and complexity. Good news is, and i don't want to speak over my marketing guys, but we are moving very soon now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered. You guys have been so patient, and we want the best SDE for you. We are ramping up a ton of never before seen minis, monsters and heroes to herald the coming of the 1st wave. Rumors of our demise had been horrible to watch in some of the more bitter posts, we are a small team, carefully chewing before swallowing right now to do this right. We want this edition of SDE to be the core you play and bring people to for the next 5+ years


February 19th, 2018, 11:52 pm
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which is a very upbeat positive comment. saying about not only SDL campaign getting a bit bigger then expected (yes, it did. not fully there fault but some of it was.. in fact, i remember saying about 'too many cooks' some time back) but also gearing up some post campagin stuff which i think would be the new Bosses, Tile Pack, Level set etc. Can't really see much bad in that comment...

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February 19th, 2018, 11:56 pm
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Tarlach wrote:
If SPM/ND let Justin go to anything else instead of keeping him on their projects, they done screwed up on one of the only things they had going for them. That's severely disappointing to hear.


So...there are a whole lot of comments which have gone missing from this thread, and the above post definitely used to be an entire paragraph that I spent an hour carefully and respectfully wording. As far as I can remember, none of the comments were disrespectful, but very firmly said "this latest update was unacceptable". They were certainly more kind and constructive than what's currently visible in KS comments. I haven't received any messages explaining why my post was edited, and there's nothing here about why a bunch of posts are missing. I can only assume this means that SPM is no longer in need of honest feedback on the Legends topic. I apologize that I was mistaken, and I appreciate the folks who've discussed things with me thus far. :)


February 20th, 2018, 1:09 am
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eternaldream wrote:
I've tried to find some of John's comments on FB for you. This is the latest one I can find.

Feb 6th: I'm here guys, We have been working through our log jam of projects. Needed to move the projects out that we could, as the SDE product got way out of hand in terms of size and complexity. Good news is, and i don't want to speak over my marketing guys, but we are moving very soon now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered. You guys have been so patient, and we want the best SDE for you. We are ramping up a ton of never before seen minis, monsters and heroes to herald the coming of the 1st wave. Rumors of our demise had been horrible to watch in some of the more bitter posts, we are a small team, carefully chewing before swallowing right now to do this right. We want this edition of SDE to be the core you play and bring people to for the next 5+ years


Which page are most of the update on? The ND page or on the Super Dungeon page? I really wish there a way to just search by ND posts, but I'm a FB simpleton.


February 20th, 2018, 1:19 am
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Tarlach wrote:
Tarlach wrote:
If SPM/ND let Justin go to anything else instead of keeping him on their projects, they done screwed up on one of the only things they had going for them. That's severely disappointing to hear.


So...there are a whole lot of comments which have gone missing from this thread, and the above post definitely used to be an entire paragraph that I spent an hour carefully and respectfully wording. As far as I can remember, none of the comments were disrespectful, but very firmly said "this latest update was unacceptable". They were certainly more kind and constructive than what's currently visible in KS comments. I haven't received any messages explaining why my post was edited, and there's nothing here about why a bunch of posts are missing. I can only assume this means that SPM is no longer in need of honest feedback on the Legends topic. I apologize that I was mistaken, and I appreciate the folks who've discussed things with me thus far. :)


Maybe they decided that it was "fake news" ;)

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February 20th, 2018, 1:52 am
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Meankeb wrote:
eternaldream wrote:
I've tried to find some of John's comments on FB for you. This is the latest one I can find.

Feb 6th: I'm here guys, We have been working through our log jam of projects. Needed to move the projects out that we could, as the SDE product got way out of hand in terms of size and complexity. Good news is, and i don't want to speak over my marketing guys, but we are moving very soon now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered. You guys have been so patient, and we want the best SDE for you. We are ramping up a ton of never before seen minis, monsters and heroes to herald the coming of the 1st wave. Rumors of our demise had been horrible to watch in some of the more bitter posts, we are a small team, carefully chewing before swallowing right now to do this right. We want this edition of SDE to be the core you play and bring people to for the next 5+ years


Which page are most of the update on? The ND page or on the Super Dungeon page? I really wish there a way to just search by ND posts, but I'm a FB simpleton.

Most of John's posts are to the Chibi gamer Facebook group page.


February 20th, 2018, 1:13 pm
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Tarlach wrote:
Tarlach wrote:
If SPM/ND let Justin go to anything else instead of keeping him on their projects, they done screwed up on one of the only things they had going for them. That's severely disappointing to hear.


So...there are a whole lot of comments which have gone missing from this thread, and the above post definitely used to be an entire paragraph that I spent an hour carefully and respectfully wording. As far as I can remember, none of the comments were disrespectful, but very firmly said "this latest update was unacceptable". They were certainly more kind and constructive than what's currently visible in KS comments. I haven't received any messages explaining why my post was edited, and there's nothing here about why a bunch of posts are missing. I can only assume this means that SPM is no longer in need of honest feedback on the Legends topic. I apologize that I was mistaken, and I appreciate the folks who've discussed things with me thus far. :)


Just want to insert myself in here. I looked through the moderation logs and no one official has deleted any post in this thread in a very long time. There was only one person besides myself who logged in who has moderator privileges between the time you posted that and now. That particular person does not edit posts. The last closed moderation report I have from this thread is from December 18th.

In general we will not edit a persons post. If we do our procedure is to inform the person that we have done so (unless it was part of a quote and the original quote was edited). If you find more odd things happening please let me know so that I can look further in to the issue.

Thanks!


February 20th, 2018, 6:43 pm
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Bah! Please Jestor, choose a colour that does not hurt one's eyes to read!

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February 20th, 2018, 6:50 pm
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