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 Legends Update Thread 
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Ninja Corps
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dsdrew924 wrote:
Crimson Ghost wrote:
2 days ago

@ Whoever is the Project Manager of this Ongoing Dungeon Debacle--- So what this Mishap would leave me to believe is regardless of whatever Campaign this is pertaining that somehow we are Moving Backwards not Forwards... the reality to all this is it deals directly with the design and molding of Miniatures... So how this how this affects us is this- You have new Kickstarters that have funded after this one which have miniatures that need design and tooling and on Top of this you are designing the miniatures for The Warforged Kickstarter, Another one to be Funded in 10 days- the real nail in the coffin here is You have while you guys are pushing forward with all these new projects and haven't finished this one with any real clear indication of when Dungeons will be completed- Im not even mentioning Legends - I will start commenting on that in 2020 when fulfillment starts--- Are you guys gonna seriously continue to tell us that one project doesn't affect another...? I'm not buying it at all. These constant rule changes are just getting monotonous and tedious. TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR PROJECT LOCK DOWN THE RULES AND LETS GET GOING... we put our faith in you and this project has dragged on long enough and is turning into an embarrassment in regards to these updates. I understand my ticket has already been punched so I'm along for the ride but how long are planning on letting this drag out?


Well this has been addressed multiple times, and not to "Drink the cool aid" but let's talk for a second with a grounded perspective as ND has addressed this multiple times and we will get the same answer.

1st - We have been told that they are separating projects into individual departments, not bleeding into each other to cause delays. This answer will not change because a disgruntled backer asked about it yet again. Is it true, is it false, I don't know, I should certainly hope true. Is it causing delays now? No, has it caused delays in the past until they got things sorted out? I do believe half the reason they hired Justin and others was because there was too much on one plate and they are doing what they said, making them their own entities.

2nd - We all have our "tickets punched and are along for the ride," They are starting to give real updates with numbers and progress, to ask them to comment on progress to tell you everything that is readily available just by looking, it becomes toxic and depressing. It only reiterates that they are behind schedule big time.

3rd - We all feel disappointed at the stage and process of this game getting into our hands, but we have all voiced numerous times and they have said "Look, we dropped the ball, we're getting our $%it together and getting this going." They hear us. Hence the rule testing. When legends came out everyone's reaction was "WOOOOOO!!!" the next reaction after it was backed was, "I sure hope the rules get fixed because FK is garbage rules."

So now they are fixing the rules to a point where it is community tested and now everyone's going "How much longer on the rules? What's up with the rules, You should have rewrote the rules earlier." So in the end, there is no happy answer is there? People will always complain about something. The thing I find hilarious is how many times people want something fixed and want it done over night. So as a community, do we want rules that we love? Or do we want minis to stare at until they are fun to play?


Lastly: To continue to have the same conversation over and over again does nothing but build animosity and rile the disgruntled into a flame war. They have said "This is where we are, this is where we are going, this is what to expect" Beyond that, there's nothing we can do. Also, how many people have been actively beta testing and reporting their games? (And be honest) I know I have, I know A couple of other people have, but it's usually the same 3 or 4 of us that are actually playing and testing. So by not testing you are not advancing the development in a timely manner.


To conclude: I was very upset with this kick starter, and RRI. I went all in on both and have received nothing. However, we will receive a fully polished and playable and beautiful game. Again, I know it sounds like I drank the Kool Aid, but truth is, I am sick of people whining and complaining and being negative and nasty and demanding answers to the same questions that are presented differently (sometimes with sub-par understanding of written English). But here's the deal, if you have the beta rules, you can plan. There is enough content and materials to play and have fun and enjoy what you have for now. Legends beta comes out this month. Get involved. Beta test. report. Talk on beta Forums. Work things out. Help them get it rolling.

I went from rage about delays and did a complete 180. Instead of harping on them I am now helping with testing, giving positive and constructive feedback, since then, some of the things I reported have actually been implemented after discussion. Now I try and post what I can with my games and it's all good.


If you didn't want to read the wall of the text here is the cliff notes:

We have our answers, they wont change. Be happy, stop the bile, beta test and report. Help them get it out faster rather than distracting them with the same arguments.

I know this response may rub people wrong, just trying to stop the negativity. I apologize if this angers anyone as it is directed at no one in particular, just really about the negativity and keyboard warriors.


I agree with all this. Particularly the part about getting involved and not armchair quarterbacking. You'll be surprised how influential constructive criticism and honest insight can be.


April 24th, 2017, 6:50 pm
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ND_Justin wrote:
To the post that you quoted: the rules updates are no longer having an effect on anything in Wave 1. Wave 1 consists of the SDE Classic core game, the frostbyte orc box, and the crown guard box. Rules for all of those are locked in and layout is almost complete. There are no more rules updates happening on those products.

Will the "finished" rulebook be pre-released for one final backer read-through-error-finding-session?

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April 24th, 2017, 9:26 pm
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Goblin-King wrote:
Will the "finished" rulebook be pre-released for one final backer read-through-error-finding-session?

This is a good question, it would be nice


April 26th, 2017, 5:52 pm
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Minion
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Pretty cool stuff about Legends today, even if yet again Deke acknowledges they had to start over.


April 28th, 2017, 10:15 pm
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I have a couple questions just how the whole Class and Job mechanic will work. First is I was wondering if each specific Hero (Job) will be tied to a specific Class. I imagine the Legends book will list off all of the current range and where they belong in the Class spectrum. What about new releases? Without editing the cards to include a "Class," how will we know which Classes each newly released Hero will belong to? I imagine it might be more of a suggestion than a rule. If that was the case, could a Royal Paladin also be a Fighter or Barbarian?

A lot of questions and it looks like a lot of work. I'm more excited for Legends now, but I wonder if it will be even farther off. That's okay though, as hopefully in the meantime we will have more models to play with and the new 2.0 rules.


April 28th, 2017, 10:25 pm
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Minion
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Yeah... I have already shared some major concerns I have regarding the bosses in the backer forum, but must say it is good to see Legends be a topic of actuality again. Also, seeing a hero card for the Nethercorn was a nice touch - I don't recall ever seeing any mention of it being a hero previously. The only drawback is I might now need to get a second model for it - to paint one as a regular Unicorn, and one as a Nethercorn.


April 28th, 2017, 10:28 pm
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I have a few concerns I would like to see addressed if possible, or maybe better explained.

I own everything for SDE, literally everything. So I look Down at my Deeproot wolf Rider, is she now null and void in Legends? What about my dragonblade? Or what about my mistmourn shaman.

All the things that made these characters seem to be thrown out the window. If you are looking for a way to do these things with the characters you have, you should look into shadows of brimstone, as they have preset characters with skills, and then upgrade cards and everything for them.

To be honest, I thought thats the direction this was going to go, more of shadows of brimstone feel.

It seems to me like you are just making DnD 4e with SDE dice.

I am a little concerned by the phrasing "It needs its own system completely" so does that mean that it will require a consul now, or will it still be arcade compatible?

And not to hop on the band wagon. But the fact that you have nothing for us this month is a little concerning. Mainly because we are already months past the original eta for shipping... so what does that spell out in timeline for actual product in our hands?


April 28th, 2017, 11:40 pm
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Minion
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I agree about the current heroes released and the whole "being its own system completely" is concerning.

One of the reasons behind the complete overhaul of 2.0 was to bring everything back to one core system with Legends. Now it seems we're back to square one. I loved the idea of Legends being a simple set of progression that could be plugged in between games - trade loot for crystals, spend crystals, power up, etc.

Now it seems this will require complete character creation, a dungeon master, lots of pre-game planning, and a definite departure from the current feel and play style of SDE. Now I fear I won't get much opportunity to play and enjoy Legends without a core RPG group.

But with the new bosses of legends mechanic revealed today and the change of direction outlined for Legends, it seems I'll be getting a lot of stuff I won't be using and that is a huge disappointment.

Not that I am feeling cheated, still getting lots of value for the amount spent on this KS when taking into account the retail value of the new core box, pet parade, war bands and stretch goals, but I won't lie that it feels like a punch in the stomach.

I'm willing to wait for more information and give this the benefit of doubt, however. But I won't hold my breath. I'll probably just keep focusing on Arcade and Classic mode and simply stop paying attention to Legends content in the future.


April 28th, 2017, 11:57 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Hero Unicorn?!
Might hafta sacrifice a MLP blindbag if I want both the Nethercorn and Unicorn on the field at the same time.


April 29th, 2017, 1:54 am
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Update wrote:
And potentially even recommending a number of bonus Princess Coins that the party may add to balance things (after failing with the normal amount of Princess Coins, of course).

If doing it this way, could the extra coins activate (become available) only if heroes get to the boss battle and maybe even based on how many spawning points were destroyed before this? Then Dark Consul could perhaps have some chance to destroy all heroes before they get to boss battle.


April 29th, 2017, 6:26 am
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Consul
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Am I even reading the update correctly?

I won't start out with picking my Ember Mage card from my Classic box?
I will literally pick a blank character sheet (with a picture of the model)?
Then compose my hero from scratch, picking skills and abilities D&D style?

Okay then... This is definitely not how we were told it was gonna work.
But I'm gonna stay positive here...

Composing a hero is usually pretty fun. I feel like this will actually open up more for making exactly the hero YOU wanna play. I'm okay with this.
This also removes the problem with some heroes being named I think. Now I can make a not-Princess Emerald.
I'm not worried about the added time spent on this either. Let's be honest here - the people who want to play Legends are willing to sacrifice a lot of time on a progressive game. Don't tell me they won't spend 20 minutes composing their character.
The thing is... what if you wanna play THAT particular hero? CAN you even make a Dragon Blade? or a Deeproot Wolfrider?

The list from which you choose skills and abilities needs to be massive. It practically needs to contain all you would need to compose literally all existing and future heroes.
Also what about base sizes? Is that something you pick yourself too now?
But make the options open and varied enough, and I could see this as an improvement.

I do have a very negative input though: I freaking passionately hate the thought of having to write on laminated cards with a marker. That is such an ugly solution.
If we have reached this point... And the cards are literally just blanks... just give us good old fashioned character sheets instead. A nice block of full color sheets, and more to print yourself on a pdf.

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April 29th, 2017, 6:36 am
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i am a little worried too, this thing of choose the skills that you want for your hero makes me think on the balance, maybe some combinations will make your hero extra powerful, i dont know...
will see how is going this in the next updates, we know very few yet about the system but im very glad to begin speak of legends


April 29th, 2017, 9:05 am
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Minion
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That was my thought too, i think they mention that there will be downloadable ones.


April 29th, 2017, 10:40 am
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Ninja Corps
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Goblin-King wrote:

I do have a very negative input though: I freaking passionately hate the thought of having to write on laminated cards with a marker. That is such an ugly solution.
If we have reached this point... And the cards are literally just blanks... just give us good old fashioned character sheets instead. A nice block of full color sheets, and more to print yourself on a pdf.


"Legends will come with an assortment of Hero cards for you, including: blank laminate cards for each class, which will allow you to use a wet or dry erase marker to build and keep track of your stats; a pre-built Hero for each class so you can play right away; we will also be providing downloadable Hero sheets that you can print and use. The Hero card format for Legends will also be significantly larger in size so that you have room to write things down."

I'm alright with PnP character sheets as well. I was holding out hope that the erasable cards were just for customization, and that the pre-built Heroes mentioned were a larger sized copy of each existing Hero.


April 29th, 2017, 11:30 am
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Ninja Corps
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eternaldream wrote:
I have a couple questions just how the whole Class and Job mechanic will work. First is I was wondering if each specific Hero (Job) will be tied to a specific Class. I imagine the Legends book will list off all of the current range and where they belong in the Class spectrum. What about new releases? Without editing the cards to include a "Class," how will we know which Classes each newly released Hero will belong to? I imagine it might be more of a suggestion than a rule. If that was the case, could a Royal Paladin also be a Fighter or Barbarian?

A lot of questions and it looks like a lot of work. I'm more excited for Legends now, but I wonder if it will be even farther off. That's okay though, as hopefully in the meantime we will have more models to play with and the new 2.0 rules.


I was also wondering about the double-usage of "Class". During the KS campaign, the term was used differently, as follows:

"A Hero’s relative power level is gauged by a system called classes. The Consul uses the party’s class to help determine how powerful adventures need to be in order to remain challenging for the Heroes. There are six classes: C-Class, B-Class, A-Class, S-Class, X-Class, and XS-Class."


April 29th, 2017, 11:33 am
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Minion
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I will write something more detailed when I have access to à computer with Internet.
I have understand NOTHING about Jobs. From what I have understood, it is just a duplicate of the hero card names.... and if so, why would it need to be a specific catégory ? Having two names for the same thing just brings more complexity, and atm we do have enough complexity in the game.

I'd rather read "a hero from the paladin classe can pick abilities that are on any other paladin hero card" than all this Jobs stuff....


April 29th, 2017, 11:53 am
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Currently, I'm seeing Legends as packaged as sort of a baseline or suggestions. The players can choose how they want to handle progression themselves, Legends should just help get some basic ideas along. This game has basically become about house rules anyway.

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April 29th, 2017, 12:41 pm
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@ Clawandbyte - I sure don't hope that's how SPM/ND see things. I for one want a game that's finished, tested and balanced for me. I don't wanna choose how to handle anything!
I certainly don't wanna spend 20 games calibrating the game to be fun/playable.
I could make my own game if this was the case.

On another note, in general I'm not a fan of the term "jobs". It sounds way too mundane. Being a Clawtribe Barbarian is NOT a job!
Call classes "archetypes" and call jobs "classes".


Can't wait to see how this will unfold.

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April 29th, 2017, 12:46 pm
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Ninja Corps
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Goblin-King wrote:
@ Clawandbyte - I sure don't hope that's how SPM/ND see things. I for one want a game that's finished, tested and balanced for me. I don't wanna choose how to handle anything!
I certainly don't wanna spend 20 games calibrating the game to be fun/playable.
I could make my own game if this was the case.

On another note, in general I'm not a fan of the term "jobs". It sounds way too mundane. Being a Clawtribe Barbarian is NOT a job!
Call classes "archetypes" and call jobs "classes".


Can't wait to see how this will unfold.


A job system is extremely in line with the games theme though. When I saw them called jobs I was immediately taken back to Final Fantasy 3 and 5. Old school, definitive, RPGs. If this game wants to evoke old school video game feels, a "job system" is a very strong way of doing that.


April 29th, 2017, 1:00 pm
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Denizen
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I agree with Goblin-King. If Legends end up being guidelines only and not a pre-written campaign system, stories and dialogues, it's a wasted opportunity to me. One of the biggest disappointment in advanced campaign system was Dungeon Saga's Adventure Companion. It had ideas, but custom heroes weren't really planned for usage with existing campaigns. Maybe 2nd Edition fix it for that game which is built together with selected fans. Anyway I don't worry yet. Two full campaigns (Dragonpeaks and Fae Woods) were discussed and then there are the digital scenarios.


April 29th, 2017, 1:07 pm
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