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 Legends Update Thread 
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Denizen
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CAH, another scourge of modern gaming, it's pretty much the seth mcfarlane of games, the "oh look how offensive i am" gets old, real quick. It's not humourus, it's just cringy, dumb humor at best.

Zcide IS the monopoly of modern board games, whether you like it or not, just look at the amount of re-skins that offer little to !SODA! all of anything new, the ruleset is easy to learn for non gamers, which is why it's so popular. And we get another re-skin in about t-minus 48 hours, yaaaay.....


April 9th, 2018, 4:09 am
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Minion
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prodigal_dreamer wrote:
Monopoly Gamer is actually pretty fun. Got rid of all the things I hated about the original and streamlined it.


Oh my god yes. I was... Reluctant, to say the least. But yes, "Monopoly Game" actually makes ye olde Monopoly formula fun. I'm pretty sure somebody sold several generations of their kin to the great and hidden ancient ones in order to make THAT happen, but I must agree that (while not one of my favorite games by any means) they finally actually figured out how to make a monopoly game in which I don't want to maim myself or someone else at the table to make it stop. And that's quite a feat.

@Lizardman
As for 'the amount of re-inspection that offer little to ____ all of anything new'... Wowsa. Maybe try some breathing exercises, perhaps I'm mistaken, but we're you not one of the same people saying they were tired of all the firey negativity around here? I suggested that a product (which never materialized) would have been quite similar to Zombicide and a number of other games, and commend ND/SPM for not adding more fuel to that fire... And you go off on a misinformed tirade about Zombicide? Geebus.

Is it for everyone? Nope.
Does it claim to be? Nope.
Is it financially successful? Exceedingly so. Henceforth the hate, no? I mean, something you don't personally enjoy is successful, so you must light your pitchforks and sharpen your torches to take arms in the special olympics of protests -RAWR!!!!

But seriously. How many versions of Munchkin are there? How about Catan? Love Letter? Fluxx? How many expansions and add-ons are there for Carcassonne, or Descent, or even our beloved Super Dungeon Explore? And how many of those fundamentally change the way the core game is played? I've got all the warband and level packs, and I seem to have missed the one that fundamentally changes the core gameplay. Oh, that's right, they really don't, they add more of the content we consumers already enjoy and crave. If they changed it in major ways, it wouldn't be the title franchise, it would be something different. It's a little bit like buying a car and then being upset that it operates on four wheels. If you wanted fewer wheels, than perhaps what you want wasn't a car at all, but complaining about it's wide availability in a market that's clearly quite happy with it doesn't make you look any smarter. It just makes you look like embittered. And I say that as someone who's probably spent a lot of time looking embittered to others in this very forum.

Currently, there are two existing "themes" of Zombicide product: the modern era (original), and the medieval/fantasy era. They've released further seasons, add-ons and expansions, all based on consumer demand. So... Shame on them, for recognizing a successful market niche with a consumer base who happens to enjoy what they produce? Yeah, sorry, that's how the entertainment business works.

There are plenty of games out there for everyone to enjoy, and odds are that what you enjoy is probably like nails on a chalkboard to a lot of other people. And that's fine. That's an opinion, and you're just as entitled to having an opinion as you are entitled to have your own rear poopshoot... Maybe just try to remember that when you get too negative about things that clearly have a lot of other fans in the same community as you, your opinions are likely to stink about as bad as the other thing you're entitled to. I realize I've spent time being one of the same kind of offenders, but mayhaps we can both try to be more positive overall? It makes the space much more pleasant.


On a note more directly related to the overall topic of this thread... I'd be curious as to when people think we'll realistically hear another production-related update? Or if there is perhaps some way we could drive home (in a POLITE and COURTEOUS way) that flavor updates really should at least relate to characters and races that are actually included in the Legends product we're supporting?


April 9th, 2018, 4:59 am
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Mini-Boss
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Are Fenneks anthropomorphic rabbits or human shape/sized with bunny ears on top? The Arena champ looks like she just has bunny ears on top -- does she have a bunny tail?

The two sketches are definitely more? anthropomorphic, imo. I feel like the Freyjan have been more of the latter - humanish with a tail and ears rather than like...cat-people.


The way I see it is Freyjans and Fenneks are born looking more anthropomorphic, and as they mature they look more human.
But that's a headcannon, nothing more.


April 9th, 2018, 5:34 am
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Minion
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Salaura wrote:
sleepy_laughter wrote:
Are Fenneks anthropomorphic rabbits or human shape/sized with bunny ears on top? The Arena champ looks like she just has bunny ears on top -- does she have a bunny tail?

The two sketches are definitely more? anthropomorphic, imo. I feel like the Freyjan have been more of the latter - humanish with a tail and ears rather than like...cat-people.


The way I see it is Freyjans and Fenneks are born looking more anthropomorphic, and as they mature they look more human.
But that's a headcannon, nothing more.


It sounds sensible to me. I accept your headcannon!

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April 9th, 2018, 11:26 am
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Minion
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@HolyCross

Saw your post on Legends Kickstarter about looking for a second factory...

Are they looking for a second factory or just looking for a new one in general? o.o?


April 10th, 2018, 2:55 pm
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Denizen
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prodigal_dreamer wrote:
@HolyCross

Saw your post on Legends Kickstarter about looking for a second factory...

Are they looking for a second factory or just looking for a new one in general? o.o?


Second factory. The core “Explore” Set will move to the new factory. Both will work side by side toward fulfillment. Also if all things go well the timeline will be, let’s say much better than the KS backers are speculating.

Beyond that I can’t say how much more I know, or how I know it. ;)


April 10th, 2018, 3:18 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Holy Cross wrote:
prodigal_dreamer wrote:
@HolyCross

Saw your post on Legends Kickstarter about looking for a second factory...

Are they looking for a second factory or just looking for a new one in general? o.o?


Second factory. The core “Explore” Set will move to the new factory. Both will work side by side toward fulfillment. Also if all things go well the timeline will be, let’s say much better than the KS backers are speculating.

Beyond that I can’t say how much more I know, or how I know it. ;)


This forum needs a "like" button. Thank you sir


April 10th, 2018, 3:34 pm
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Denizen
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Squirrel wrote:
Holy Cross wrote:
prodigal_dreamer wrote:
@HolyCross

Saw your post on Legends Kickstarter about looking for a second factory...

Are they looking for a second factory or just looking for a new one in general? o.o?


Second factory. The core “Explore” Set will move to the new factory. Both will work side by side toward fulfillment. Also if all things go well the timeline will be, let’s say much better than the KS backers are speculating.

Beyond that I can’t say how much more I know, or how I know it. ;)


This forum needs a "like" button. Thank you sir


You’re welcome! :D Once things are locked down I’m sure SPM won’t waste any time pushing that information out.


April 10th, 2018, 3:38 pm
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Minion
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Question - is SDE:L considered a standalone or expansion to Classic and Arcade?

I obviously like that it opens up the IP to include a wealth of new, potential hero minis, more RP oriented minis like furniture, barrels, terrain, plot stuff, etc., but I was thinking, if I get Classic or Arcade 2.0 + SDE:L, then I would have 3 spawns of monsters, 1 mini boss, 1 boss, 12 heroes (6 from 2.0 and 6 alt gender) for 12 heroes/options, base BRG dice from 2.0 and YP dice from SDE:L, tiles from 2.0 and smaller tiles from SDE:L and then SDE:L specific hero cards (laminated for reuse) and loot/treasure/etc. cards.

When I look at the adventure like Broken Horn in the beta, I wonder if we'll get a bunch of barrels as counters or if these will just be printed on the game board.

Just musing and wondering if SDE:L retail will be repackaged, potentially with some product that is not part of the KS, to make it a sweeter/incentive to buy.


April 10th, 2018, 4:22 pm
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Ninja Corps
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Question - is SDE:L considered a standalone or expansion to Classic and Arcade?

I obviously like that it opens up the IP to include a wealth of new, potential hero minis, more RP oriented minis like furniture, barrels, terrain, plot stuff, etc., but I was thinking, if I get Classic or Arcade 2.0 + SDE:L, then I would have 3 spawns of monsters, 1 mini boss, 1 boss, 12 heroes (6 from 2.0 and 6 alt gender) for 12 heroes/options, base BRG dice from 2.0 and YP dice from SDE:L, tiles from 2.0 and smaller tiles from SDE:L and then SDE:L specific hero cards (laminated for reuse) and loot/treasure/etc. cards.

When I look at the adventure like Broken Horn in the beta, I wonder if we'll get a bunch of barrels as counters or if these will just be printed on the game board.

Just musing and wondering if SDE:L retail will be repackaged, potentially with some product that is not part of the KS, to make it a sweeter/incentive to buy.


I'm pretty sure it's it's own stand alone thing. As an RPG, at this point, it probably doesn't even technically require owning any other SDE stuff. Unless it oesn't come with dice, the only thing not that easily replicateable. everything else can be done through standard RPG play materials. It wouldn't have the SDE aesthetic if you're using (non SDE) minis you already have and a vinyl mat instead of tiles or whatever. but it would still be totally playable.


April 10th, 2018, 6:09 pm
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Minion
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From what I remember, they've specified that Legends, as a retail product, will include:

  • 6x Hero Models
  • Dice: 2x Emerald, 3x Citrine, 3x Amethyst, 6x Ruby, 8x Sapphire, Golden Eye of the Goddess (d20)
  • Legends Decks: Shop, Skill, Loot, Treasure, Schemes, Monster Upgrades
  • Double-sided poster map with prebuilt dungeons for the campaigns included in the Consul’s Grimoire.
  • 2x Token Sheets (hearts, potions, gems, etc)
  • Books: Hero Handbook, Consul’s Grimoire, Explorer’s Guide

The idea is that if you want to do the included campaigns, you'll need either SDE 2.0, SDA 2.0, or SDE Forgotten King. If you're fine skipping the included campaigns and just want to your own, you just need any Warband or Level Box and you're ready to go.


April 12th, 2018, 9:32 pm
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Ninja Corps
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haven1433 wrote:
From what I remember, they've specified that Legends, as a retail product, will include:

  • 6x Hero Models
  • Dice: 2x Emerald, 3x Citrine, 3x Amethyst, 6x Ruby, 8x Sapphire, Golden Eye of the Goddess (d20)
  • Legends Decks: Shop, Skill, Loot, Treasure, Schemes, Monster Upgrades
  • Double-sided poster map with prebuilt dungeons for the campaigns included in the Consul’s Grimoire.
  • 2x Token Sheets (hearts, potions, gems, etc)
  • Books: Hero Handbook, Consul’s Grimoire, Explorer’s Guide

The idea is that if you want to do the included campaigns, you'll need either SDE 2.0, SDA 2.0, or SDE Forgotten King. If you're fine skipping the included campaigns and just want to your own, you just need any Warband or Level Box and you're ready to go.


I was saying that you don't really even need warbands or level boxes as it's an RPG (light or not). you can use your own minis and such for things, like most any other RPG. The official options are, of course, the superior thing to go with. But, one can play D&D without officially released wizards of the coast D&D models as well. This is where things like the gelatinous octohedron come from after all XD


April 12th, 2018, 10:56 pm
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Minion
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The campaign page itself (outside of any Kickstarter bonuses) promised this for the Legends product:

Quote:
CONTENTS:

Hero Handbook: The complete guide for advancing your Heroes between adventures, including guild creation rules, and roleplaying tips to make a unique party of Heroes all your own!
Consul's Grimoire: Learn how to create unique adventures, enhanced monsters, and craft a story all your own in the world of Crystalia! Includes two complete premade campaigns—The Dragon Horn and Rotten Wood—each with multiple adventures to begin playing right away.
Explorer's Guide: Begin your exploration of the Super Dungeon universe with this packed world guide! This tome details the history, geography, monsters, and key locations of every realm in Crystalia. It also provides detailed information on the world's history, Heroic races, religions, and organizations.
6 Super Dungeon Dice: 3 Citrine and 3 Amethyst.
Golden Eye of the Goddess
6 Corridor and 4 Side Room Dungeon Tiles: Mix and match these 4x8 square and 6x6 square dungeon tiles with your existing collection of tiles to create increased variety in your dungeon layouts.
Hundreds of Tokens: Crystals, Objectives, NPCs, and other all new tokens help enhance the experience and provide more options for adventure!
500+ Cards, Including: Scheme Deck, Monster Upgrade Deck, Shop Deck, B-Class Skill Deck, A-Class Skill Deck, S-Class Skill Deck, X-Class Skill Deck, XS-Class Skill Deck.
5 Hero Dashboards: Laminated Hero Dashboards help you organize your cards during the game and record important vital statistics about your models.


I can't imagine retail being less than what was stated from day 1 of the campaign. Those specifically shaped tiles are special, in that they would be COMPATIBLE with the existing ones, but the new shapes would provide a lot more variety to players' delves.


April 13th, 2018, 10:44 am
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Minion
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@TheHandsomeDan, the day 1 campaign page said what it was they originally set out to make. Since then, a lot of the packaging has moved around. The kickstarter still contains all the same stuff, and SPM will still sell all that same stuff, but not packaged in the way it was originally laid out. The information I quoted came from this update. A few major changes to note:

  • You won't be able to buy a Midnight Queen Level Box: they've been rolled into the Super Dungeon Arcade Core box. Likewise, the SDE 2.0 Core box will not include arcade mode.
  • The corridor tiles are no longer included in Legends: Legends contains a "Double-sided poster map with prebuilt dungeons" instead. The corridors are available separately.
  • The smattering of pet models has been expanded into Pet Parade, which includes a rulebook, a unique tile, Plot cards for Arcade and Classic, and Creep tokens.

For people who backed the kickstarter, these are all improvements. For people expecting to pick up Legends or the Midnight Queen expansion at retail, it means you may end up spending more / getting more than what you previously thought.


April 13th, 2018, 2:45 pm
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Minion
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Thanks for the clarification, and the link -the period between funding and now has gone on so long that it can be difficult to locate certain updates. Can't say I've personally encountered that on anything else I've backed (though reading the latest on Heroquest Anniversary Edition over at BoardGameGeek is a good hoot every now and then).

I'm incredibly curious to see this "poster map" of theirs, because I can only think of one or two games that have made the unfortunate mistake of trying to use a folding paper map to play on, and they've definitely been, well... Unfortunate mistakes. Unless you either severely wear down the crease points of the paper, or have it out flat with something forcing it into shape all day, they just aren't going to stay down. It looks super tacky, and makes a tabletop product seem subpar. For reference, some of the "Frag" expansions came with paper maps back in the day, as well as "Descent: Sea of Blood" -the uproar about Sea of Blood using a paper map was so bad that Fantasy Flight had to introduce a rigid board upgrade that could be purchased for it (I've been trying to find one for my Descent 1E collection, but I have yet to spot the thing for under $200 online).

Even if we, the backers, get the nicer looking special tiles, I worry that the presence of these paper maps might make the retail product seem a little trashy right out of the box.


April 15th, 2018, 7:48 am
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Denizen
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If Legend's map ends up being paper quality that curves a lot, that's not a good choice. On the other hand if there are a lot of different kind of locations, sturdy tiles we're used to is not going to be an option. Folklore Affliction first got negative feedback that their tiles are slim. On the other hand the amount of them didn't make it economical to produce any other way. I think by now people has gotten used to the idea. Legend's tile quality should at least be good enough not requiring weights in corners to stay flat.


April 15th, 2018, 8:46 am
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Denizen
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I don't know if it's only an English thing, but for many games with 'play mats' of paper, like card games etc, we normally iron them. works for posters and other things too. Simple and easy.. through I prefer card mats.

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If you want to see some SD related stuff I've made and shared, why not check out my thread:
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April 15th, 2018, 10:53 am
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Minion
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I've heard mixed things about ironing that sort of thing. As I've read, certain finishes will or won't take to the technique well, resulting in either the protective finish darkening in color, or the print sticking to whatever it's touching at time of ironing, even if done quickly and at a lighter temperature. Others, work fine apparently. At the very least, I'd be nervous about such a thing, and it doesn't strike me as a solid long-term fix, since you wouldn't be able to put the poster map back in the box without refolding it and effectively undoing that careful work.

I'm not opposed to the idea of using large CARDS as tiles, it's something I've seen several games do, and which I've been working on for my own project for months now. Cards under 4"X4" tend to stay flat reasonably well enough, any larger and the warping becomes much more troublesome and noticable. This is, of course, all dependent upon how you store them, as well as climate conditions like humidity -a factor that is honestly only somewhat within the power for many gamers to control. So even there, it's kind of a variable thing.

Depending on the size of this poster map though, perhaps they will consider selling double-sided neoprene style play mats that contain a different level/map on each side. I could see that being a really big seller for them, and pretty reasonable to manufacture without too much difficulty. I'm sure that a number of games would be willing to shell out a little extra (within reason) for a more premium replacement of the base map, and even more gamers would be willing to shell out if they could get brand new maps that way. I know I would at least give it some serious consideration, if I could carry two decently sized maps for the game that I didn't have to "assemble" from tiles in a single poster tube. I may not want to use those EXCLUSIVELY, but if they had different sections than the cardboard tiles, they'd certainly see use.


April 15th, 2018, 5:47 pm
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Denizen
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Ironing isn't that bad. But if unsure (or with some finishes etc), just put either a towel or something like it on top first. but yes, if you need to refold, you need to put the lines back in there and start again.

depending on the size of the poster (since campaign missions shown so far are small with only a couple of rooms), it could be like the Arena board, which was a fold up tile equal to 4 normal tiles though I can see this needing 6..

end of the day, not a deal breaker. through transport is a bit of a problem (which it always is anyway), what I used to do with trading card mats was attach them to a wooden board. They are often a problem but never something that means the whole thing is a waste.

neoprene like stuff, like you can buy them 'jigsaw puzzle rolling mats' is possible through I'm never a big fan.. not quite sure why.

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If you want to see some SD related stuff I've made and shared, why not check out my thread:
http://community.sodapopminiatures.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14638
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April 15th, 2018, 6:09 pm
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Minion
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I've been assuming that the "double sided poster map" contains more than 2 dungeons: it's not like the Arena fold-out, with one 4-tile-sized map on one side and one 4-tile-sized map on the other side. Rather, I've been guessing that the map will have a collection of smaller dungeons, since most of what we've seen in SDL can be played in shorter play sessions over smaller areas. This is partly due to the modular nature of Adventures and partly due to the change in movement / action rules that cause the game to decrease in scale. For example, the largest adventure map we've seen so far uses 3 dungeon, but only takes up the relative space of 15x11 squares, where a normal tiles is 12x12 squares. So if the poster is folded into 16x16 chunks, they could avoid having squares where the poster creases.

Of course, I could be very wrong with this, and we could very likely end up with creases making parts of the poster unusable... which would be very disappointing indeed.


April 16th, 2018, 2:06 pm
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