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 Legends Update Thread 
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Minion
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spm or ninja division? case realy, nd has been doing non-miniature based games for some years.


August 28th, 2017, 8:46 am
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Denizen
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growlley wrote:
seems like sodapop are a minatures company who cant make minatures anymore - as they announced way of the fighter will be shipping as two waves wave one the base game without minatures.
Or they simply want to deliver the core game as quickly as possible without making every backer wait for the miniatures to finish production.

The miniatures aren't required to play WotF. They are just an extra bonus for those who want to use minis instead of the cardboard cut outs that come with the base game. Might as well get to play the game right away.


August 28th, 2017, 4:38 pm
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Ninja Corps
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ND_nekodachi wrote:
growlley wrote:
seems like sodapop are a minatures company who cant make minatures anymore - as they announced way of the fighter will be shipping as two waves wave one the base game without minatures.
Or they simply want to deliver the core game as quickly as possible without making every backer wait for the miniatures to finish production.

The miniatures aren't required to play WotF. They are just an extra bonus for those who want to use minis instead of the cardboard cut outs that come with the base game. Might as well get to play the game right away.


Careful, there, that sounds like reasonable talk! ;P

I appreciate that they are shipping the game before the minis, myself. I'm looking forward to playing the game. I wouldn't die if it held until it all shipped at once. But I appreciate the effort and gesture on ND's part.


August 28th, 2017, 6:06 pm
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Denizen
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growlley wrote:
is it too cynical to sugest they are now going to produce them in the sde production run.

They said WotF minis aren't being manufactured in the same part of the world so would be hard for them to fold them into SDE's production.


August 28th, 2017, 9:24 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Imriel wrote:
growlley wrote:
is it too cynical to sugest they are now going to produce them in the sde production run.

They said WotF minis aren't being manufactured in the same part of the world so would be hard for them to fold them into SDE's production.


It is.

The Way of the Fighter minis were never confirmed in resin or plastic. The news of them being made in a different part of the world makes it more likely for them to be in resin- since SPM generally has card and plastic made in China, while their resin manufacturer is in Europe.

Likewise, the resin crossover minis that they had at Gencon were not produced alongside Rail Raiders (the crossover minis were almost definitely made in Europe alongside the resin Relic Knights minis).

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August 28th, 2017, 11:07 pm
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Minion
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odinsgrandson wrote:
Imriel wrote:
growlley wrote:
is it too cynical to sugest they are now going to produce them in the sde production run.

They said WotF minis aren't being manufactured in the same part of the world so would be hard for them to fold them into SDE's production.


It is.

The Way of the Fighter minis were never confirmed in resin or plastic. The news of them being made in a different part of the world makes it more likely for them to be in resin- since SPM generally has card and plastic made in China, while their resin manufacturer is in Europe.

Likewise, the resin crossover minis that they had at Gencon were not produced alongside Rail Raiders (the crossover minis were almost definitely made in Europe alongside the resin Relic Knights minis).


Correction: they confirmed all the miniatures would be resin. Even the Chibis:
https://www.facebook.com/NDSPM/posts/10155476956324459:0

That said, based on the testimony from those who bought the Taokashi chibis, I'll assume they'll be the same type of resin.


August 29th, 2017, 12:03 am
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Denizen
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ND_nekodachi wrote:
growlley wrote:
seems like sodapop are a minatures company who cant make minatures anymore - as they announced way of the fighter will be shipping as two waves wave one the base game without minatures.
Or they simply want to deliver the core game as quickly as possible without making every backer wait for the miniatures to finish production.

The miniatures aren't required to play WotF. They are just an extra bonus for those who want to use minis instead of the cardboard cut outs that come with the base game. Might as well get to play the game right away.



Didn't order the game ordered the minis , so now this the 3d product in a row this comapny has basically let me down on. The decision not to not ship the minis must have been made a while back so why not let people know then instead of waiting until the last minute ?

It will turn out they have been pushed back to share a slot with some other product but I didnt pay for that product to be made I paid for the one I ordered.

so now including postage costs etc this company has had over $400 from and I have had nothing to show for it in return. Just about reached refund time.


August 29th, 2017, 2:31 am
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growlley wrote:
ND_nekodachi wrote:
growlley wrote:
seems like sodapop are a minatures company who cant make minatures anymore - as they announced way of the fighter will be shipping as two waves wave one the base game without minatures.
Or they simply want to deliver the core game as quickly as possible without making every backer wait for the miniatures to finish production.

The miniatures aren't required to play WotF. They are just an extra bonus for those who want to use minis instead of the cardboard cut outs that come with the base game. Might as well get to play the game right away.



Didn't order the game ordered the minis , so now this the 3d product in a row this comapny has basically let me down on. The decision not to not ship the minis must have been made a while back so why not let people know then instead of waiting until the last minute ?

It will turn out they have been pushed back to share a slot with some other product but I didnt pay for that product to be made I paid for the one I ordered.

so now including postage costs etc this company has had over $400 from and I have had nothing to show for it in return. Just about reached refund time.


You make it sound like that if they didn't slit up the game and mini shipments, you'd somehow be getting what you ordered earlier. Like they have the minis, but they are not shipping them to spite you. Instead of the far more likely scenario that they have the game without minis ready to go, and don't want to have it eating up storage space while they wait for the minis, which will get to you no faster anyways, to get done.

You till get your game peripheral at the same time. But you seem to be complaining that people who ordered the main part of the kickstarter aren't suffering as much as you feel you are.


August 29th, 2017, 2:50 am
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Denizen
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no I don't care\mind about the pople getting their Game , I simple want what I paid for under the conditions agreed for that payment and that was the figures would be shipped with the game.

But your attitude well its all ok cos Im partiually alright jack - at least I got some of the stuff I paid for

You can apologise and white knight for them all you want but the truth of the matter is this company has really dropped the ball in how it treats its customers in the last year.


August 29th, 2017, 4:00 am
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Minion
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@Usagi. Yeah yeah. But this is not the main problem. As always it is with anticipation. With 300 SDE spectator pledges and 500 Elf miniature pledges, why not war before being at the brink of shipping that minis will be late ? Just that. And why not give a mini ETA ?
Just that.
Why wasn't it told before? Why can't we know when the miniatures will ship ?


August 29th, 2017, 9:07 am
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Minion
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found out what White knight means in this context at last.. it's a personal insult against people trying to be nice and.. something called 'trolling'.. I guess that's something to do with sitting under a bridge or something.. not up on modern slang terms..

So if you make a statement someone doesn't agree with which seams to be acting nice with someone, you are personally insulted... clearly off topic anyway..


August 29th, 2017, 9:11 am
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Minion
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I've realised that the SDE team's not very good with dates, the Spring 2017, the crossover heroes that supposed to had been shipped on 21st of August and now we have all Legends design and writing finished on the '31st September'. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It would be nice for late backers (like myself) get this about the same time as normal backers (the amount of normal backers that had asked for a refund...and still are is...describable, so that where the late backers pick up the slack).


September 9th, 2017, 9:07 am
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Minion
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> pledging just for minis whereas there is no "mini only" pledge and the core of the ks was a reworking of the core engine of a board game


September 9th, 2017, 10:37 am
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killseal wrote:
I've realised that the SDE team's not very good with dates, the Spring 2017, the crossover heroes that supposed to had been shipped on 21st of August and now we have all Legends design and writing finished on the '31st September'. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It would be nice for late backers (like myself) get this about the same time as normal backers (the amount of normal backers that had asked for a refund...and still are is...describable, so that where the late backers pick up the slack).


Haha, I had this impression from the Kickstarter and from the Forgotten King, that building out a quest campaign system for this was effectively done, and ultimately didn't SEEM like that much work (it never does from the outside though, does it?)

I think when April rolled around, and they hadn't begun production, and they weren't communicating effectively at all... I kind of took to the mentality of "it arrives when it arrives" and stopped holding my breath at all. I still look forward to the game, and the terrifying array of miniatures that it will include for my already burgeoning Super Dungeon collection; but what I've seen in the bits and pieces they've put out so far don't honestly seem like the greatest step forward to me -more like a sort of sloppy band aid to try and make it work. In my PERSONAL opinion, I still maintain that much of the key complaints about the pace and length of the game (one of my own biggest issues with it this far) would have been much better served by way of an app, and with proper project management it probably would have been faster and cheaper for them to focus efforts on that, and simply include the content needed to continue rules a la Forgotten King's "1.5" rules. That would have been much faster to produce, much more friendly to revising/correcting/updating the newer digital rules, and generally easier to balance in the future. But, that's my personal opinion on the matter. Having tried a number of board games that now use optional or required apps, the experience can be really slick.

As for the late backers comment -i don't know how late you were, I wasn't very late personally, but I was late. In my pledge manager, it indicates the see shipping waves as regular backers. Granted, I expect that I'll be at the end of that wave, but still, not too bad. Have you checked your PM to see if you're truly in a later wave? As I understand it, it's less about when you actually pledged, and more about whether you finalized your pledge manager on time. In the back end of things, it's really about whether you got your order finalized in time to be included with production, your initial pledge date is honestly less important when viewed from a process management and production approach.


September 11th, 2017, 5:10 pm
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Minion
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
killseal wrote:
I've realised that the SDE team's not very good with dates, the Spring 2017, the crossover heroes that supposed to had been shipped on 21st of August and now we have all Legends design and writing finished on the '31st September'. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It would be nice for late backers (like myself) get this about the same time as normal backers (the amount of normal backers that had asked for a refund...and still are is...describable, so that where the late backers pick up the slack).


Haha, I had this impression from the Kickstarter and from the Forgotten King, that building out a quest campaign system for this was effectively done, and ultimately didn't SEEM like that much work (it never does from the outside though, does it?)

I think when April rolled around, and they hadn't begun production, and they weren't communicating effectively at all... I kind of took to the mentality of "it arrives when it arrives" and stopped holding my breath at all. I still look forward to the game, and the terrifying array of miniatures that it will include for my already burgeoning Super Dungeon collection; but what I've seen in the bits and pieces they've put out so far don't honestly seem like the greatest step forward to me -more like a sort of sloppy band aid to try and make it work. In my PERSONAL opinion, I still maintain that much of the key complaints about the pace and length of the game (one of my own biggest issues with it this far) would have been much better served by way of an app, and with proper project management it probably would have been faster and cheaper for them to focus efforts on that, and simply include the content needed to continue rules a la Forgotten King's "1.5" rules. That would have been much faster to produce, much more friendly to revising/correcting/updating the newer digital rules, and generally easier to balance in the future. But, that's my personal opinion on the matter. Having tried a number of board games that now use optional or required apps, the experience can be really slick.

As for the late backers comment -i don't know how late you were, I wasn't very late personally, but I was late. In my pledge manager, it indicates the see shipping waves as regular backers. Granted, I expect that I'll be at the end of that wave, but still, not too bad. Have you checked your PM to see if you're truly in a later wave? As I understand it, it's less about when you actually pledged, and more about whether you finalized your pledge manager on time. In the back end of things, it's really about whether you got your order finalized in time to be included with production, your initial pledge date is honestly less important when viewed from a process management and production approach.


ND's problem has always been they're trying to be as big as CMON without the proper direction, management, or funding. Once CMON got investors, the sky was the limit. They were able to hire Eric Lang, produce various great games, (albiet, some were hit or miss, some were full on duds), wheras SPM seems like they're just picking up whatever they can in hopes of seeming like a decent gaming company; I never hear anything about these games, but I ALWAYS hear things about CMON games, and it's not tat I can't respect the effort, it just feels like, because ND isn't more discerning, they don't have a good grasp of gaming as a whole, let alone what makes up a good game. I mean, just look at their clearance sale. 45% off? Seems to me they're just trying to ditch the dirt. Shoot, they haven't even finished retail releasing NAS.


September 12th, 2017, 3:29 pm
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It's weird, because I would really like to jump on some of the stuff in this sale, but I just can't bring myself to drop money on it when I have no real idea of whether I'll have the new core set in time to plan games over THIS winter break, or if I'll have to wait for NEXT winter break.

I don't mean that in an impatient or angry way, just...pragmatic.


September 12th, 2017, 6:14 pm
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September 13th, 2017, 1:07 pm
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Minion
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Speaking of the sale, I assumed it was to make room in their warehouse for RRI and WotF. It's what I would do, anyway.


September 14th, 2017, 3:26 am
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Okay, so I've been really happy with the last few updates, which seemed really clear... But it seems like they just threw a big wrench of ambiguity into things.

"We continue to work on delivery for the 1st waves, as projects now shift to production. We will of-course, update you the moment we can confirm manufacturing has begun."

Before, they were talking about design. Then they talked about layout. Then it was proofing. Then it was production. If you've already completed design, layout, and proofing, and you're on to "production"... How does that NOT refer to manufacturing? They (the factory) have proven that manufacturing is ready by way of the proofing that has been approved by SPM, so what else could it possibly be intended to mean, right?

Which brings me to ambiguity. Because if they are "in production" by the standards outline, but have not started "manufacturing", what are we supposed to take from that? If I'm missing something here, I would genuinely like to be filled in.


September 16th, 2017, 3:05 am
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Yeah, I noticed the bit about "We will of-course, update you the moment we can confirm manufacturing has begun."

It sounds like they've told the factory to begin production, but the factory may have its own schedule/queue, and they haven't heard back that the physical products are being made yet.

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September 16th, 2017, 4:00 am
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