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 SDE Boss Tiers: Ranking Bosses/Minibosses in Classic Mode 
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Denizen
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Or alternately it might be WHY Gruesome George is so bad; yes, he's bad, but you can always respawn him over and over and over... and possibly get punished for it as Heroes draw multiple Keys, but how many can they use anyway?

And with full Mob even without a single Wound, GG Wave 2 6B STR isn't too bad either.

I dunno. I may have to test him out with the Grabby House to see if this unique respawning miniboss is OP or just a better opportunity for a Hero. It's also an opportunity for me to examine the idea I had for a miniboss bone wyvern based on a How to Train Your Dragon Bone Knapper toy, which I wanted to give Bone Mountain - he creates 4 Bone Piles when destroyed, and if 4 Bone Piles are within a Raise AOE he can be chosen to respawn. Being able to respawn should bring about a decrease in a miniboss's overall power... but how much?


Even if Wakey-Wakey makes Gruesome George worthwhile I'm not sure I see him rising in Ranks anyway, as it's a case of the spawn point giving him a unique niche, rather than anything upon his card. Synergy is nice, but the ranks are based in a vacuum, and even WITH that he's not exactly all that great, and may even end up hurting the Consul with a supply of Keys.

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August 7th, 2015, 6:03 pm
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Denizen
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I... need to eat some humble pie regarding Starfire, because I made a HUGE screwup in ranking her.

To wit, I thought that the Tail Sweep Ability had been errata'd away.

I'm not sure HOW I made this mistake, and man, does it make Starfire a killer equal to King Starfire - maybe a bit better, because of that increased Movement. I've been playing her (or had her played on me!) exclusively for the last five games, and she's quite strong after Looting just once or twice.

(part of that is influenced by the SDE 1.75 rules, though, as she'll usually get two activations her first couple of turns, making it easy to churn through some Loot draws looking for good stuff.

However, she's also whiffed on the Treasure draw three times out of five, which seems mathematically impossibru, but happened.

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August 18th, 2015, 2:52 pm
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Minion
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iamfanboy wrote:
TRENT
AFFINITY: SAPPHIRE
OFFENSE: STR 1W2R (3.33) Range 2
DEFENSE: ARM 1W2R (3.33) Hearts 6
Trent is TOUGH, both literally (he has Tough) and statistically - he's also Immune: Poison. He doesn't quite have the best Defense, but balances that with a decent Offense, and threatens geared-up Heroes with Decay (AP2) which makes them discard equipment. Overgrowth (Wave 3 AP2) isn't that good as it goes off his 2R WILL, but his last ability, Uproot (Range 4 Compel 2 AP1), compensates for his average Move 6 by bringing Heroes closer. His Virulent Ability (+1B STR against Poisoned Heroes) is hampered by the fact that he does not inflict Poison, so supporting him with the Old Growth Hollow, Pumpkin Patch, or Kaelly is recommended.


Don't know if anyone said this or not yet, but Trent's Uproot affects allies, not heroes.
It's actually one of his tricks as he's the only one who can move kingsprout.


August 26th, 2015, 6:42 pm
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Minion
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Also, starfire's a boy, glimmerwing's a girl :P


August 26th, 2015, 6:43 pm
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insider714 wrote:
Also, starfire's a boy, glimmerwing's a girl :P

Agreed - I don't know why everybody thinks Starfire is a girl. Even after he became king, people still make this mistake...
Is it a cry out for more female monsters?

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August 27th, 2015, 5:05 am
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insider714 wrote:
Also, starfire's a boy, glimmerwing's a girl :P


I was itching to correct people myself but just kept forgetting. XD

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August 27th, 2015, 8:52 am
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Denizen
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corrected, then - though if you'd've noted, I consistently used "He" in Starfire's entries, just my own mental processes goes female. :p

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August 29th, 2015, 3:01 am
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When I looked at the first page I was like "Where is Glimmerwing?" and then I remembered she was a mini boss. Thats how powerful she is! I honestly don't play glimmerwing as a miniboss. She is a strait up bossmonster even better than Forgotten King.

I also think you gave Salt a bit of a low score. We have run into salt on the first tile twice and almost party wiped both times. Both times we lost at least 1 or 2 heroes. Being able to apply cold and burning on multiple heroes is super deadly. And you can't outrun him either.


September 3rd, 2015, 12:16 pm
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Denizen
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LEGION3000 wrote:
When I looked at the first page I was like "Where is Glimmerwing?" and then I remembered she was a mini boss. Thats how powerful she is! I honestly don't play glimmerwing as a miniboss. She is a strait up bossmonster even better than Forgotten King.

I also think you gave Salt a bit of a low score. We have run into salt on the first tile twice and almost party wiped both times. Both times we lost at least 1 or 2 heroes. Being able to apply cold and burning on multiple heroes is super deadly. And you can't outrun him either.

In theory, Rank S is "Stronger than the model should be for a balanced game, but not so strong that he outright ruins a game," versus Rank SS, which is "Should probably be nerfed in some way because it is broken in all regards."

It's possible that Salt should be up there in S-rank. His damage output is potentially highest of all the Minibosses, as he's capable of 6+ Wounds per activation with two debilitating Status Effects, he's Immune: Status Effects making it impossible to weaken him, and he's got middling-high Attack/Defense stats combined with 6 Hearts. The Fly is helpful too. But then, what about models like Death, who I watched last week outright kill THREE Heroes with lucky rolls on Soul Scythe? It's a crazy game figuring potential damage against the sheer juggernaut that is Glimmerwing.


And I'm sad to say that what happened wasn't necessarily the fault of Salt, but the whole Classic game. S'why so many of us forum folk are working so hard on a rewrite of the rules in the Lootimeter Mode thread. The Consul is just plain stronger than the Heroes and has to play 'weak' in order to give the Heroes an even chance.

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September 3rd, 2015, 3:19 pm
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I played a game using the zombie spawner and George as a mini-boss. I didn't bring him on the board using wakey wakey and still... maybe not in the function of the big and mighty boss, but combined with his zom-pals, he's fun to play and an excellent first mini-boss. Not too hard, but with his ability to heal two wounds each round, fairly hard to kill. And he also benefits from the brain food action of the shamble priest ;)
So maybe he's bad, but I think he's a nice starter (and on his last wound has fairly good armor with 7B).

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October 11th, 2015, 6:18 pm
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In arcade mode George is a beast especially as the first miniboss.


October 12th, 2015, 11:38 am
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I was a bit unclear, I played him in Classic. It still was some work for the heroes.
In a quick Arcade mode -I wanted to try the Zombies- I played Sister, Paladin and Marie-Claude against the Stilt Town Crew with George as Boss. He's good enough for that... in Arcade :) It was close. He killed three heroes overall.

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October 12th, 2015, 11:45 am
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Goblin-King wrote:
insider714 wrote:
Also, starfire's a boy, glimmerwing's a girl :P

Agreed - I don't know why everybody thinks Starfire is a girl. Even after he became king, people still make this mistake...
Is it a cry out for more female monsters?


The gender confusion came from somewhere - it might have been a flavour text or an old description somewhere. Or it could have just been that people saw the eggs from the Dragon Clutch group and assumed that Starfire was the one who laid them.

I really need to get back into SDE and get up to speed with the forum ruleset so that I help work out who's hot and who's not in that play mode. Oh the perils of being in a different country from your game set...


October 12th, 2015, 2:05 pm
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Denizen
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Many thanks @iamfanboy!!!!!!

This was really, really helpful!! It was also very good to see that your rankings of the heroes were very similar to those made by Styfen on the BGG forums:
https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/190158/player-one-press-start-super-dungeon-explore-20-he.

Also curious how you would rate Beatrix and Scarecrow Jack!


November 24th, 2015, 3:05 pm
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Denizen
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Yeah, it's a little crazy that we ended up ranking them so similar - we disagree on some things, and I use Rank C solely as a repository for models which need some serious rebalancing, but overall we're on the same page on a lot of minis.

I don't own Beatrix or Jack (a choice between backing the KS or buying them was hard, I want that Witch Queen!), and haven't been able to find pictures of their cards yet. Until then there's little I can do to judge 'em.

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November 24th, 2015, 4:56 pm
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Denizen
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iamfanboy wrote:
Yeah, it's a little crazy that we ended up ranking them so similar - we disagree on some things, and I use Rank C solely as a repository for models which need some serious rebalancing, but overall we're on the same page on a lot of minis.

Well that you very much agree on most scores (or rate them 1 stronger/weaker, except 1) seems to point out that you guys are pretty objective in your assessment.
Atm I use both your reference scores to use a point system to balance hero teams so as a team, they have an average score.

iamfanboy wrote:
I don't own Beatrix or Jack (a choice between backing the KS or buying them was hard, I want that Witch Queen!), and haven't been able to find pictures of their cards yet. Until then there's little I can do to judge 'em.

Well perhaps I may be of help ...
Image
Image


November 24th, 2015, 5:16 pm
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Beatrix is pretty monstrous. The ability to lay down 2 status conditions on likely several, if not all of the heroes at once is a devastating opener. Putting hex and bane on a whole party can just crush them before the fight really starts, depending on how readily they can heal away the conditions (sometimes proper timing is needed, if the heroes have a hero withdrew as an activatable power or something). Couple that with the ability to generate ghosts (though often off your own models) and you can pile the suck o the heroes before you start exploding them.

Her drawback is that she really loses some punch if she doesn't have other minions to back her up (or be beaten into ghosts) when she comes out.


November 24th, 2015, 9:22 pm
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Denizen
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Oh, man, Beatrix looks super-aggro and a lot of fun. Her ARM stat is pathetic for a Boss, especially without intrinsic heals (3.17, lowest of all the Bosses so far!) but she IS a Witch and so can benefit from Grabby House's Homunculi - supported by a good ol' fashioned Shamble Priest summoning more. I'd say Grabby House is MANDATORY when using Beatrix, otherwise she's awful frail even with Immune: Status Effects.

Her movement is only beaten by the Death Spectre - 7 Fly is already great, but the Lance 8 Charge lets her get across almost an entire board before spending that movement if she's surrounded by Heroes. A canny Consul could keep her at a distance the entire time, pummelling the Heroes and creating more Ghosts all the time. It's a good thing that Offense Actions are clearly stated as "Only being targeted at an enemy model" because if she could target her own leftover monsters with that Lance to keep moving around...

No reason to ever stop using her Potions; that many red and green dice flying around will keep her well stocked. Her WILL without Potion use comes to a lowly 4.33, but that Range 8, combined with her Movement, makes her a great sniper. The Kitty Claws Ability, while cute and flavorful, is unlikely to damage most Heroes closing with her if they have any + Defense loot.

Curses! probably shouldn't come into play too often unless she's surrounded and needs to get out - Beatrix looks best sniping from a distance, but if she's surrounded by Heroes giving them Knockdown or Slow then Pumpkin Charging away seems like a solid idea.

What are the stats on the ghosts? Don't really need cards, but if they have a 3B attack and are Insignificant, that's a LOT more attacks going at the Heroes every turn that aren't to be ignored with the Mighty Monsters - and even spending the time to smack the Ghosts down doesn't do much good as Beatrix is so capable of spawning more.

So, yes. Highly mobile, highly offensive, frail for a Boss, but capable of being supported - a ranged WILL boss versus the melee STR bosses that dominate the game. I'd rate her pretty highly, but without seeing the whole package (explore cards, Ghosts, how many of her Treasures are Cursed) and actual testing on the battlefield, I'm not gonna place her anywhere yet.

But dizzam, now I really want her.


Jack Scarecrow looks like an interesting support Miniboss - one of what, two Monsters in the Consul's arsenal that can give an unconditional Heal effect to any nearby model, and it's a Wave1? He has a solid Defense stat and 6 Hearts. Flammable is interesting, as there is a fair bit of Fire in the Hero arsenal but not enough to make it a horrifying weakness. His controlling move is definitely gonna hit low-WILL Heroes, as well as his fellow monsters.

However, his offensive presence is low compared to so many Minibosses. His Sweep can probably catch two or three Heroes at a time, but Slow is a weaker Status Effect and he's got no way of buffing it.

If I already had a Miniboss on the table or a lot of high-Wound and durable Elites, I'd spawn Jack to support 'em. However, I probably want to be healing my Miniboss or Boss, not healing with said Miniboss, making Jack interesting but waste of Super! killing potential. He's not broken, just different. I like him, and in the right set of spawn points (or in the PvP rules) he'd do very well.

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November 24th, 2015, 11:31 pm
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iamfanboy wrote:
The Kitty Claws Ability, while cute and flavorful, is unlikely to damage most Heroes closing with her if they have any + Defense loot.


It should be noted that this ability, more or less, completely nullifies the barbarian's rage (in regard to using it on Beatrix). two red dice will bead one blue defense almost every time. raging on Beatrix is basically suicide.


November 25th, 2015, 12:21 am
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Usagi wrote:
iamfanboy wrote:
The Kitty Claws Ability, while cute and flavorful, is unlikely to damage most Heroes closing with her if they have any + Defense loot.


It should be noted that this ability, more or less, completely nullifies the barbarian's rage (in regard to using it on Beatrix). two red dice will bead one blue defense almost every time. raging on Beatrix is basically suicide.


An excellent point.

But aside from that, I like the fluff of it and who would want to have the steeds of the carriage be the deadliest thing about the character? But even with +DEF loot, some characters will think twice about getting too close....

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November 25th, 2015, 12:52 am
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