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 "Lootimeter Mode" Now in ARCADE MODE (pg 31) 
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Mini-Boss
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Infernofury wrote:
Wich tweaks do you suggest if i want to play a 5/6 players (4+fonsoul or 5+consoul) game wich is challenging for both parts???



I would never play any game without these rules:

PRINCESS COINS: MORE COINS (Easy)
The Heroes start with a number of Princess equal to the number of Spawn Points.

PRINCESS COINS: LIMITED LIVES (Hard, Simple)
The Heroes start with a number of Princess Coins equal to the number of Spawn Points. Whenever a Hero dies, a Coin must be used to respawn it. If a Coin cannot be used, then the Heroes lose.


This prevents any player from dying early and then having to sit out for a long time, which was always my biggest problem with the game. It really allows the Consul to fight at full strength.


I might also consider using this rule:

POPPIN' POTIONS (Complex)
This rule is for visually representing the classic video game trope of healing items dropping from the monsters, which then disappear after a certain amount of time, instead of just giving the item to the Heroes.

When a Potion or Heart is rolled from a successful attack, place a token representing it in an empty adjacent square; the Consul chooses where the tokens go, and they may stack on top of each other. Heroes may pick them up by using the Scavenge basic action, but if any remain by the time the next Hero turn begins they vanish unused.


Bottled Creeps
The Consul can add one Creep to the board every time they roll a potion in an attack that hits.


This allows for more Creeps on the board (which can be surprisingly effective!)

Also, for a larger game, I like bringing an extra mini-boss to the table, so that there are two attacking the heroes at the same time.

Now, admittedly, I have never played a 5 hero game with Lootimeter rules. I was always of the mind that those games would be too long for my tastes. But if you try it, then let us know how it goes.

One thing you might consider, if the Dungeon Boss comes out too quickly, is having a THIRD stack of 16 cards in the Lootimeter, and use it as follows:

After 1st 16 cards - Mini-boss(es) arrive

After 2nd 16 cards - mini bosses can be re-spawned at a cost of 4 skulls.

After 3rd 16 cards - Dungeon Boss arrives and no more spawning allowed.

Let us know how it works!

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Want to enjoy a game of Super Dungeon Exlore in half the time that Forgotten King offers? Try Lootimeter Mode!
Sodapop Lootimeter Discussion thread
BGG Lootimeter discusson thread


March 17th, 2016, 8:27 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Thanks Spazzfist,

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_CI ... q32lwo5o0i -> printed :)

Have a good weekend


March 18th, 2016, 3:35 pm
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Minion
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Thank you! When i go back to italy in 2 weeks i'll try and i promise i'll report!! I've only fk so don'r expect to see anything strange XD


March 18th, 2016, 7:32 pm
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So after spending several weeks with the Wrath mechanic, Salaura and I decided to enjoy our new Dungeons of Crystalia tile set with a game of Lootimeter, using the Ninja spawn point, Beatrix, the new slime Creeps, and she went with an all-catgirl team in Codifier Kisa, the new Cat Burglar, and the Hero Chaos Kitty (her actual name escapes me).

And it was so much fun. It was... relaxing going back to something that is balanced well and gets to the Boss Fight in time to have fun with it.

I also had a realization that if a Hero = 4 Skulls, then dual Hero activations are just the equal of a Consul's 4 Skulls + Super.

I lost mostly because of the fact that there were TWO teleporters on their team, meaning Beatrix couldn't hit and run properly, but the Cat Burglar is actually pretty good on utility - the Shadow Crown made her dagger flurry really lethal. Carrying two healing potions was also very relevant. The dual teleportations (Salaura pulled the Shadow Crown and Candle from the first treasure chest!) meant that I couldn't do much to slow her down and she ripped right through the Dungeon.

I was less than impressed by the ninja, though the Yajiri are actually pretty solid - 2 attacks for 1 Skull is not to be ignored. I had high hopes for Feint, but it just didn't do the job properly. I probably should have picked a heavy hitter miniboss like Trent or Death, but I wanted to try lots of new things and Kaelly just didn't do enough.

Also, I think that Beatrix is welded to the Grabby House spawner. She wants her spoopy zombies to help her.

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Lootimeter Mode - A Fast, Fun, Fair Mode for Consul versus Heroes!
SDE Hero Tiers: Ranking Heroes in Classic Mode
SDE Boss Tiers: Ranking Bosses/Minibosses in Classic Mode
SDE Spawner Tiers: Ranking Spawn Points in Classic Mode


April 7th, 2016, 8:13 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Oh hey, I just wanted to pop in. I found your idea from your postings from the Beta forum. It's a really nice system for sure. Has it been updated at all for Arcade Mode?


April 7th, 2016, 8:14 pm
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eternaldream wrote:
Oh hey, I just wanted to pop in. I found your idea from your postings from the Beta forum. It's a really nice system for sure. Has it been updated at all for Arcade Mode?


If you mean Lootimeter, no, there is no arcade mode version of it yet that I am aware of. Pending how the rule rewrite goes I may help make one if anyone else is interested.


April 7th, 2016, 8:17 pm
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Huh, that's a thought. How would it work for Arcade Mode? Haven't touched Arcade Mode in a long time. A year? Longer? Not even sure where my Arcade Mode rulebook IS.

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Lootimeter Mode - A Fast, Fun, Fair Mode for Consul versus Heroes!
SDE Hero Tiers: Ranking Heroes in Classic Mode
SDE Boss Tiers: Ranking Bosses/Minibosses in Classic Mode
SDE Spawner Tiers: Ranking Spawn Points in Classic Mode


April 7th, 2016, 9:24 pm
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Mini-Boss
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eternaldream wrote:
Oh hey, I just wanted to pop in. I found your idea from your postings from the Beta forum. It's a really nice system for sure. Has it been updated at all for Arcade Mode?


Well, I have played several games of Lootimeter solo, when my regular game group is not available. So, as long as you are willing to think like a Consul and make the best move to take out the heroes, then that does allow for solo or even co-op play.

Failing that, you could adopt the Wrath mechanic from Arcade mode and apply it, so that the monsters will be more predictable as to which heroes they will attack. But, from when I have played this mode, I have found it a bit easy to direct attacks to the strongest hero by ensuring that they have the most wrath. sure, this is kinda thematic, as when playing a video game, they would not always make the smartest choices.

So let me ask you then, what is it that you enjoy about Arcade mode? Is it the co-op play? the ability to play solo? The cards? The gangs of monsters? Knowing what people feel to be the best part of Arcade, will help us to implement it to the Lootimter system.

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Want to enjoy a game of Super Dungeon Exlore in half the time that Forgotten King offers? Try Lootimeter Mode!
Sodapop Lootimeter Discussion thread
BGG Lootimeter discusson thread


April 8th, 2016, 3:16 pm
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I have started by Arcade games with my boyfriend. What makes us like it are the co-op gameplay mostly. What we didn't like was first the possibility to totally trick the game with the wrath system (but well, when we play MMOs together, there is almost always an aggro mechanics, so why not...), and mostly the cards. Those actions cards... There are way not enough "Unique" cards. It made me feel like "why are there unique actions written on monsters cards ? They use it once every 20 cards or so.... Pointless". So we didn't suffer any conditions, the monsters almost never buffed themselves...

That might provide you with a bit more statistics in Arcade mode :D


April 8th, 2016, 3:32 pm
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My first qustion when coming here also ws "is there an arcade version ?" :3 I think lots of players connect with the idea of sde as a coop game, but our first experiences with arcade are always long and tedious.
I'm not sure if arcade needs a lootimeter mode, but it would be good to try. In essence there shouldn't be much to change. There is a bgg variant which was shared here in order to make arcade harder as well ...


April 8th, 2016, 4:35 pm
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Chozo Tull wrote:
My first qustion when coming here also ws "is there an arcade version ?" :3 I think lots of players connect with the idea of sde as a coop game, but our first experiences with arcade are always long and tedious.


No disrespect intended! :)

But you have to consider that when you joined our discussion on Lootimeter mode, we were still developing things and working out the kinks. So, we were not ready to split our brain in applying it to Arcade mode as well. Things have settled down now and as such thinking about applying Lootimeter to Arcade mode is much more feasible.

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Want to enjoy a game of Super Dungeon Exlore in half the time that Forgotten King offers? Try Lootimeter Mode!
Sodapop Lootimeter Discussion thread
BGG Lootimeter discusson thread


April 8th, 2016, 5:35 pm
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Spazzfist wrote:
So let me ask you then, what is it that you enjoy about Arcade mode? Is it the co-op play? the ability to play solo? The cards? The gangs of monsters? Knowing what people feel to be the best part of Arcade, will help us to implement it to the Lootimter system.


I've mentioned on the boards before some of my limited experience with SDE, Classic mode is too much like an RPG for my group. We tried it, we found it way to easy for the Consul to win every time. When we play a board game we are looking for a true Co-op or a true Versus situation. Having the Consul "take it easy to make it fun for all" is something we do in RPGs, but in tabletop? Not so much. We have the same issue with Traitor games like Shadows Over Camelot or Battlestar Galactica, the traitor almost always wins. We are just too good at sabotaging ourselves.

So we are interested in Arcade mode for a pure co-op experience. I also have a lot of time where I can solo game, yes, I can play both sides. I do that with some games (even X-Wing...) but I always like it better when I don't have to, like Zombicide Black Plague. I can just play the game with a singular focus and that is more fun.

So for me solo and my group it is all about building Acade mode as a pure AI style game. There are no specific mechanics that exist in Arcade today that draw me to it. I like SDE and I want to play it solo/co-op. So fur us the closer the game is to Classic, the better.


April 8th, 2016, 6:11 pm
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Spazzfist wrote:
Chozo Tull wrote:
My first qustion when coming here also ws "is there an arcade version ?" :3 I think lots of players connect with the idea of sde as a coop game, but our first experiences with arcade are always long and tedious.


No disrespect intended! :)

But you have to consider that when you joined our discussion on Lootimeter mode, we were still developing things and working out the kinks. So, we were not ready to split our brain in applying it to Arcade mode as well. Things have settled down now and as such thinking about applying Lootimeter to Arcade mode is much more feasible.


No offence taken ! I've just seen that question asked here and over at bgg.
Overall I'd rather play classic. But I know the demand for arcade is there. I didn't mean that arcade was due though, that would be foolish - you're not the designers, it's not your job :)


April 8th, 2016, 7:01 pm
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGODDAMN YOU BOARD YOU LOGGED ME OUT AFTER I TYPED UP THE WHOLE GODDAMN POST AND NOW I HAVE TO REBUILD IT.

Co-op modes exist for X-Wing. Heroes of the Aturi Cluster is something my friends and I have been enjoying immensely, and the AI system is nothing short of brilliant.

Rules Change For Lootimeter Mode possibly. Even though most of Wrath Mode was naff, one thing I liked (borrowed from Arcade Mode actually!) is that Spawning takes place during Power-Up. Changing the Lootimeter Mode so that Power-Up is only after a Hero turn, and that spawning takes place during it, would reduce down time and completely remove the chances of spawning a Boss/Miniboss at the end of the Consul turn, so the Heroes don't get a free turn of beating it up.


Okay, Lootimeter Arcade Mode. May leave out some of my thought on why in this recovered post. Trying not to punch monitor.

The main problem is the Command Deck being too easy. Cutting it down to 24 would make it more consistent and keep pressure on. I say get rid of Lag, Respawn, Turbo, and Recover - Each of those does little to threaten the Heroes and the rest of the cards are far more interesting. If I'm wrong and those cards are necessary to give Heroes breathing room, then dropping 1 Hack & Slash, Combo, Griefer, Gauntlet, Rush, & Hardcore to include 2x Lag, Respawn, Turbo seems reasonable.

Keep the Lootimeter Deck as-is, with 16 cards to Miniboss and 32 to Boss in 3-4 Hero games. Spawn point destruction spawning minibosses is terrible, gives no real reason to destroy them.

Possible(?) change: damage seems to be fairly low from the monsters. If it is too low, then taking two cards from the Lootimeter for each Hero Wound inflicted seems like it would drive the game forward faster.

Possible change: Add sentence to Expendable to say, "Solo Elites may treat any Elite or Minion model within 2 squares as bonded for this rule." Don't know if it's necessary, as Solo Elites already have higher HP.

Delete last sentence from Spawn Command - with the impetus to destroy the spawners (see below), self destruction is counter productive.

Add sentence to Signature Actions: "If there are Spawn Points still on the board when a Boss activates, it performs its Signature Action one additional time per Spawn Point." Gives a reason to destroy the Spawn Points without being overwhelming.


These are mostly off the cuff and I may be hit and miss on them, and definitely need testing. Any thoughts?

_________________
Lootimeter Mode - A Fast, Fun, Fair Mode for Consul versus Heroes!
SDE Hero Tiers: Ranking Heroes in Classic Mode
SDE Boss Tiers: Ranking Bosses/Minibosses in Classic Mode
SDE Spawner Tiers: Ranking Spawn Points in Classic Mode


April 8th, 2016, 8:43 pm
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Minion
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Hi.

I really like the Lootimeter Mode and, since I almost exclusively play solo Arcade, I've tried to applied Lootimeter rules in my Arcade games with good results.

I use the Lootimeter Deck (obviously) as-is, with 16 cards to Miniboss and 32 to Boss in 3-4 Hero games.

PRINCESS COINS: MORE COINS (Easy)
The Heroes start with a number of Princess equal to the number of Spawn Points.

PRINCESS COINS: LIMITED LIVES (Hard, Simple)
The Heroes start with a number of Princess Coins equal to the number of Spawn Points. Whenever a Hero dies, a Coin must be used to respawn it. If a Coin cannot be used, then the Heroes lose.

I've revised the Wrath mechanic as explained in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5538
Maybe still not perfect, but it greatly enhances Arcade to me.

BOSSFIGHT: in my games, the Boss always performs Movement and Attack at his turn. But I keep drawing 1 Command Card every Consul turn to see if he performs his Unique Action too. I also play the Boss Fight Card and Timeout in Arcade.
In Lootimeter Arcade, if at least 1 Spawn Point remains, and until they are all destroyed, the Boss performs Movement, Unique and Attack every turn. He also gains 1 AP and Immune to all status effects. The remaining Spawn Point(s) really give full power to the Boss.

Unless I missed something, I play all other rules from the official version of FK, ie Expandable rule: only Minions with their designated Elite. No Expandable for the Boss.

I hope we can all make a Lootimeter Arcade as enjoyable as Lootimeter Classic.

Bye.

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Ideas for "exploration" in Super Dungeon EXPLORE viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5653
House-rules for SDE Arcade viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5538


April 10th, 2016, 9:40 am
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I've played around with this idea, in regards to the heroes moving forward. I built the Loot deck of 8 cards at first. Then I made it so that when you destroy a spawn point, you add 8 more Loot cards to the draw pile. Once all the Loot runs out, the dungeon boss spawns. A miniboss also spawns after each spawn point is destroyed after the first too. I like more minibosses, so I wanted a way to get more of them. Needs some more testing, but I could be on to something.


April 10th, 2016, 2:38 pm
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eternaldream wrote:
I've played around with this idea, in regards to the heroes moving forward. I built the Loot deck of 8 cards at first. Then I made it so that when you destroy a spawn point, you add 8 more Loot cards to the draw pile. Once all the Loot runs out, the dungeon boss spawns. A miniboss also spawns after each spawn point is destroyed after the first too. I like more minibosses, so I wanted a way to get more of them. Needs some more testing, but I could be on to something.


Sounds like an interesting concept, but I know, from experience, that 8 cards can disappear very quickly, especially once a miniboss comes out! I would be curious to hear your findings though.

_________________
Want to enjoy a game of Super Dungeon Exlore in half the time that Forgotten King offers? Try Lootimeter Mode!
Sodapop Lootimeter Discussion thread
BGG Lootimeter discusson thread


April 10th, 2016, 3:18 pm
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iamfanboy wrote:

Co-op modes exist for X-Wing. Heroes of the Aturi Cluster is something my friends and I have been enjoying immensely, and the AI system is nothing short of brilliant.


This looks absolutely awesome! Thank you for this!


....now back to our regularly scheduled SDE discussion....


April 11th, 2016, 2:30 pm
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Man, the more I see the discussion in the playtest forum, the more I keep coming back to this idea. I think it really is a great idea. The Wrath mechanic sounds good, but I think it is too much to remember. You're going to be going though Loot anyway, so there is less to keep track of. I hope SPM would consider this as a mechanic.


April 28th, 2016, 5:38 am
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eternaldream wrote:
Man, the more I see the discussion in the playtest forum, the more I keep coming back to this idea. I think it really is a great idea. The Wrath mechanic sounds good, but I think it is too much to remember. You're going to be going though Loot anyway, so there is less to keep track of. I hope SPM would consider this as a mechanic.


I know, me too! They have taken the dual activation and the starting Princess Coins from Lootimeter Mode, which are two of the biggest things, the only thing that they have not adopted is the countdown timer!

I am finding it hard to motivate myself to playtest the new rules (and I do mean "myself", because my group does not want to play with those rules anymore) because, to my mind, it is still so obviously flawed. Lootimeter has been so heavily playtested and has proven time and time again that it works. It is clean, it is simple, and it works.

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Want to enjoy a game of Super Dungeon Exlore in half the time that Forgotten King offers? Try Lootimeter Mode!
Sodapop Lootimeter Discussion thread
BGG Lootimeter discusson thread


April 28th, 2016, 2:55 pm
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