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 NAS SDE Speculation 
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Bottle Cap
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I have a question regarding the abilities on the ninjas that they showed up. I´m not that familiar with names so bear with me a little bit.
The chunin (the mini boss), has a blue button skills that let the tile where he is is counted as Tile #3 for the purpose of the Territorial skill.
Does this affect only the mini boss or every enemy on the tile that he is?
I ask this because we did a play test with them and the one that was consul literally rap*d us with it.
Also, whats up with those 7 hearts that he has? If you normally struggle with a 5 heart mini boss, the Chunin can go toe to toe with a boss regarding health and damage.


June 26th, 2018, 3:30 pm
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According to the wording on the card, the Kitsune Chunin's New Territory action works for all enemies with the Territorial keyword.


June 26th, 2018, 3:47 pm
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Then there is practically no way to survive the second tile, with the amount of attacks that the consul can dish per turn at least 2 heroes will die in there. Given the +3 stars in attack and a blue one from the migthy monster.


June 26th, 2018, 3:51 pm
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(Support 1 AP) New Territory: Augment, The tile this model is on counts as the third tile for the purposes of the Territorial ability on monsters.

New Territory is a Support Augment unique action with no range, meaning it can only be applied to the model itself.

Technically speaking, you cannot 'buff' or target tiles. So the interpretation here is whether only the model with New Territory benefits from treating the tile it is on as the third tile *or* if all models with Territorial treat the tile the model with New Territory is on as the third tile. The use of the word monsters indicates that if heroes use the Foxglove potion from Tamamo No Mae, they do not benefit from it...but that'd only matter if the latter interpretation was correct or is the usual case of not always clear wording from SPM.

My personal interpretation when I first read it was that only the model with New Territory on it treated the tile it was on as the third Tile since this'd equate to a +2W or +1W buff in most cases for a mini boss for the cost of a single AP, which I thought was very balanced given the other 2 unique actions available to the Kitsune Chunin. A 1W2R attack that can be buffed to 3W2R I thought was plenty strong/appropriate for a mini boss.

Having that buff *and* considering the 1 AP support ability to *also* buff up to 12 other models on the same tile (range 12!) (or more if 5-6 hero game with all Kitsune Ninjas) with +1-2W doesn't make sense to me b/c it's obviously OP.

I think the ability needs clarification/errata from SPM if you want to play it as buffing everything on the tile. I think territorial is already a relatively nice and thematic, if wordy, scaling ability.


June 26th, 2018, 4:49 pm
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The one who played consul argued that it must be the tile for how it is written.
I argued that it was only for himself as the augment flag doesn´t have a range or aura effect as other abilities have.


June 26th, 2018, 5:00 pm
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Not saying it isn't OP, but the wording is fairly clear, it targets only the Chunin and makes it so that the tile he is on counts as tile 3 for the purposes of Territorial. I mean if they just wanted to give the Chunin +3W there are far less convoluted ways of wording that, i.e. this model counts as being on tile 3 for territorial. There's no reason to word it as the tile itself count as anything unless it's meant to be a more global effect.


June 26th, 2018, 5:09 pm
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@Imriel - I agree the wording is not clear and there would be much easier/shorter ways to just give the Chunin +2W or +1W on tile 1 or 2....but this *is* SPM we're talking about.

Ultimately, until SPM makes an official errata/clarification, it will be as with any board game - use whatever rules your playgroup is willing to accept. If the Consul is adamant that the Chunin buffs everything, then I would be as adamant that I would not play with him if he selects the Kitsune spawnpoint + Chunin mini boss under those circumstances.

It may be that SPM assumed most, if not all of the Kitsune ninjas would be dead by the time the first mini boss spawned thus mitigating the value of the buff, but I don't personally think the Kitsune ninjas need 'extra buffing' in classic, arcade, or FK given +1W on tile 1 and +2W on tile 2 is already plenty strong.


June 26th, 2018, 5:51 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
1) Awaiting confirmation as to whether these are repackaged vs. new production as that may have repercussions for SDE:L backers
2) Waiting to see if they'll bundle an upgrade pack for folks that already have everything and don't want to pay $5 + shipping for each pack separately.
3) Waiting to see how they handle the ronin that were part of the KS but are not (to my knowledge) part of retail. Assume they will get an upgrade card and maybe? they release them at retail?
4) Waiting to see if the repackaged NAS will be SPM/ND store exclusives or if folks can expect to see these at retailers (e.g. international customers)
5) Waiting to see how long it takes them to turnaround preorders for the kitsune clan box on 6/27 given the long turnaround for sweetheart candy not to mention Randy hasn't been mentioned being received nor start shipping.


1) These are all repackages.
2) There will be three upgrade decks releasing over the course of the rest of the year. If you want to save on shipping and order all three at once, that's not a bad idea, but it's not technically a bundle either. It will be a bit though.
3) Yes, those ronin will get cards in the last deck.
4) These will go to retail.
5) I don't do production. Just a rules guy. Not gonna touch timelines, not my thing.

Imriel wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the active spawn points are currently unplayable in Classic/Explore since they fail to list what they put in the spawn pool.


We intentionally left the spawning pools off of the explore madoushis. They're outlined on the arcade cards (they're both the same) and we felt it was clear from the contents of the boxes (they're the same as the current NAS boxes) and we wanted to fit the flavor text on at least one version of the spawning points (between arcade and explore). It is unlikely anyone new to SDE will be purchasing these. That said, we will likely change this thinking and list the spawning pools on both arcade and explore in future NAS stuff while cutting the flavor.

sleepy_laughter wrote:
Dark Kitsune mini boss is a bit odd. Lacks a basic melee attack, but all her special actions are melee. Of course, she can use Let Them Come for Wave 1 AOE instead of basic melee attack - maybe the intent is to make her vulnerable to Ice or maybe b/c it's a mini boss, the statline won't really change w/o equipment (so maybe only affects Arena?)

A bit confused by her arcade version only having 2W STR. Into the Reeds is an oddity, too, with red offensive action, but must be used on self to teleport to farthest spawn square? I'm hoping these won't have a ton of mistakes/typos given they're planning for folks to pay $$$ for the upgrade packs.

She seems modeled after the Kitsune Kunoichi, but she lacks the Territorial ability for offense.

----
Zenyo Ryu's A Feather for Each Eye seems relatively weak. It doesn't increase range or offense compared to basic attack so I'm not sure what the advantage of using it would be over 2 basic attacks. It seems his style is to do a lot of basic attacks b/w Wind of Blades and Storm of Arrows. Once you hit the breakpoint to deal critical success, I guess I'm not sure when the offensive action would be suitable to use (maybe spawn points?, but no increased offense...). Maybe if you have a buff that is on next action only like Fae Alchemist secret ingredient.
----
Tanchyo Oni's To the Sky doesn't indicate Augment or Dangerous, just adjacent model, so assume this is a Dangerous action as worded. Heavenly Toss on the Arcade version is very specific/gives idea on how to use the ability to isolate heroes for Kaiken attacks.
-----

All in all the clans feel very flavorful. Definitely looking forward to what the other clans end up having.


1) Explore Dark Kitsune has a missile basic attack and melee specials to represent her doing cool, close combat stuff with the giant ninja star once she gets close but throwing it when she's farther away. Doesn't really affect the rules much, just a bit of flavor.
2) The Dark Kitsune's Arcade version has 2W STR because she has 4 actions (most mini-bosses have 3). Yes she's missing territorial on purpose because her flavor is that she wandered away from the clan's territory.
3) To The Sky is not dangerous, it is only intended to work on enemies (as opposed to dangerous which would allow it to work on friendly models).

odinsgrandson wrote:
I'm really excited that they're making bosses. I think that Onryu and Onibaba are likely to become bosses as well.


Onibaba sure is! Here are her playtest stats:

ONIBABA
Oni Dungeon Boss
citrine/ruby

Move: 6
AP: 4
Melee: 5B 1R (Melee 1)
ARM: 3R
WILL: 4R (Magic 6)
DEX: 3B
Hearts: 9

SUPER

Abilities: Blood Drinker: When a model with Blood Drinker inflicts a wound, it may remove one wound or one status effect token from its card for every heart rolled.

(Blue 1) Feed, My Children: All other monsters may take a basic offensive action. This action may only be taken once per turn.

(Red 2) Devouring Horror: Melee 1, Brutal Strike, on a critical success discard up to one equipment from the target and equip it to this model.

(Red 2) Crippling Miasma: Magic, Wave 2, Bane

BOSS FIGHT CARD

Boss Fight:
Scavenger: The Consul selects up to two loot from the discard pile or backpack and equips them to Onibaba

Time Out:
Battle Without End: If no mini-boss is in play, spawn a mini-boss selected for this game adjacent to target Hero. The mini-boss immediately suffers three wounds. Heroes do not draw treasure for destroying this mini-boss.

Difficulty Rating:
Difficulty Rating 1: If the party is unable to beat this boss with the usual number of Princess Coins, they may add 1 additional Princess Coin the next time they face this boss.


As a mortal, Onibaba would lure stragglers from battles into her traps, finish them off, and sell their possessions. One night, however, she pulled a finely crafted mask from a dark and terrible samurai, and slipped it on over her face. In that instant, the dark power from within the mask touched the festering rot in her soul and consumed her. Soon the mortal hag was gone, replaced by an ageless, devouring horror that has stalked Kagejima’s places of slaughter ever since.


Also, all of her treasure is cursed. Here is an example:

The Monkey's Paw
Citrine
Cursed

As You Wish: After a treasure with As You Wish is equipped the party must immediately draw two treasure cards and equip them both. While an item with As You Wish is in play, all Heroes with at least one treasure suffer a wound when they achieve a critical success.

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June 26th, 2018, 6:15 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
@Imriel - I agree the wording is not clear and there would be much easier/shorter ways to just give the Chunin +2W or +1W on tile 1 or 2....but this *is* SPM we're talking about.

Ultimately, until SPM makes an official errata/clarification, it will be as with any board game - use whatever rules your playgroup is willing to accept. If the Consul is adamant that the Chunin buffs everything, then I would be as adamant that I would not play with him if he selects the Kitsune spawnpoint + Chunin mini boss under those circumstances.

It may be that SPM assumed most, if not all of the Kitsune ninjas would be dead by the time the first mini boss spawned thus mitigating the value of the buff, but I don't personally think the Kitsune ninjas need 'extra buffing' in classic, arcade, or FK given +1W on tile 1 and +2W on tile 2 is already plenty strong.


(Blue 1) New Territory: Augment. The tile this model is on counts as the third tile for the purposes of the Territorial ability on monsters.

It is intended that this action buffs the territorial of all monsters on the tile.

We playtested this pretty extensively and found it to be tough, but also certainly beatable for the heroes. Territorial is very good, it is meant to rival the mob ability of kobolds (which I would argue is still actually stronger). Of course, that does not invalidate your experience. SDE has a wide range of heroes and, particularly, tiles. More cluttered tiles are more difficult for Heroes. And often one or two area of effect rolls can swing the game. So if this ability was too tough on the party under the circumstances you were playing, I understand.

But the thinking for all of these NAS releases has been to make them tough. Some spawning points are less powerful, that's the nature of SDE. But, to be blunt, the people who are still sticking with us (thank you!) are probably very familiar with our games, and we felt that stronger spawning points that had new challenges would be more enjoyable (note the difficulty rating on Onibaba). Of course, that may not be your experience! So always feel free to reach out and let me know.

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June 26th, 2018, 6:25 pm
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exnato wrote:
I have a question regarding the abilities on the ninjas that they showed up. I´m not that familiar with names so bear with me a little bit.
The chunin (the mini boss), has a blue button skills that let the tile where he is is counted as Tile #3 for the purpose of the Territorial skill.
Does this affect only the mini boss or every enemy on the tile that he is?
I ask this because we did a play test with them and the one that was consul literally rap*d us with it.
Also, whats up with those 7 hearts that he has? If you normally struggle with a 5 heart mini boss, the Chunin can go toe to toe with a boss regarding health and damage.


Mini bosses are being given, on average, 7 hearts due to the introduction of critical hits in second edition. That makes it easier for the party to take them out, so we upped their hearts a bit so they didn't just show up and die so often.

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June 26th, 2018, 6:27 pm
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odinsgrandson wrote:
It is clear that some clans will have single spawn points, while others will use a double spawner.

I believe that all Chunin will be mini boxxes, and all Madoushi will be spawn points (although I'd love to see an oni as a spawn point sometime)

I think that this will be based on the minis that come in the box- if there is an even number of every different type of ninja (other than chunin) then it will be two single spawn points, and if there is an odd number of any of those, then it will become a double spawn point.

Clan Tora- Two Single Spawn Points
Clan Yamazaru- Two Single Spawn Points
Clan Ika- Two Single Spawn Points
Clan Ijin- Double Spawn Point


All of the quoted text above is exactly correct.

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June 26th, 2018, 6:34 pm
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That old lady boss means bussiness xD


June 26th, 2018, 6:42 pm
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ND_Justin wrote:
exnato wrote:
I have a question regarding the abilities on the ninjas that they showed up. I´m not that familiar with names so bear with me a little bit.
The chunin (the mini boss), has a blue button skills that let the tile where he is is counted as Tile #3 for the purpose of the Territorial skill.
Does this affect only the mini boss or every enemy on the tile that he is?
I ask this because we did a play test with them and the one that was consul literally rap*d us with it.
Also, whats up with those 7 hearts that he has? If you normally struggle with a 5 heart mini boss, the Chunin can go toe to toe with a boss regarding health and damage.


Mini bosses are being given, on average, 7 hearts due to the introduction of critical hits in second edition. That makes it easier for the party to take them out, so we upped their hearts a bit so they didn't just show up and die so often.


Thanks for the reply, I did figured that to be the reason since critical hits are both a blessing and a curse, but still it was a shock at first, plus in that game our Consul only spawned 2 heart monsters on the first tile and we didn´t loot AND he used the forgotten king tiles (the one with the lake and the ultra stretch path of walls with ivy all around)
It is a challenge that could be surmounted but the Consul was playing to do an overkill so it left a sour taste.


June 26th, 2018, 6:47 pm
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ND_Justin wrote:
sleepy_laughter wrote:
2) Waiting to see if they'll bundle an upgrade pack for folks that already have everything and don't want to pay $5 + shipping for each pack separately.

2) There will be three upgrade decks releasing over the course of the rest of the year. If you want to save on shipping and order all three at once, that's not a bad idea, but it's not technically a bundle either. It will be a bit though.

Will every clan get an upgrade deck (since I just completed my clan collection in the hopes this would be the case)? I ask this mainly because you say 3 upgrade decks. The pdf we got has 2 clans + some other miniatures, but shop's upgrade deck #1 only presents Kitsune clan with some other figures. Based on the above answers, yes every clan gets their upgrade cards, but will it be 3 or 6 physical decks in the end?

PS. The two huge Golden Statues would make a nice boss. At least Kickstarter backers got 2 of those.


June 26th, 2018, 7:53 pm
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@ND_Justin - thanks for all the answers, new info, and definitely hear you on production timelines ^^;;.

@Imriel - once again you are the right XD. That puts the Kitsune spawns in a new light for me and I will need to treat them with the proper respect when they hit the table or make sure I pick heroes that will have a chance.

I guess this may bode well for Consul and Arena players if all the NAS monters are tough!


June 26th, 2018, 8:12 pm
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@ND_Justin - in case you're still out there, Zenyo Ryu has a 2AP Offensive Action A Feather for Each Eye: Missile 5 Massive Damage

Is there something we're missing with this ability? Compared to Storm of Arrows or just basic missile attacks with a decent chance of critical success, at what point is it intended for this ability to add value? It seems very edge case.


June 26th, 2018, 8:19 pm
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Here is a full list of cards in the first NAS upgrade deck (it includes both Kitsune and Tanchyo):

1 Benkei Hero
1 Hanzo Hero
1 Karura Hero
1 Moon Princess Hero
1 Sun Empire Samurai Hero
1 Uzumaki Hero

1 Jorogumo Explore Boss
1 Jorogumo Arcade Boss
1 Jorogumo Boss Fight Boss
1 Spidersilk Kimono Treasure
1 Sting Treasure
1 Envenomed Blade Treasure
1 Many-Eyed Orb Treasure
1 Spiderweb Corset Treasure
1 Cocooned Hero Treasure
1 The Poisoned Gem Relic

1 Dark Kitsune Explore Mini Boss
1 Dark Kitsune Arcade Mini Boss
1 Jumbo Shuriken Treasure

1 Tengu Explore Mini Boss
1 Tengu Arcade Mini Boss
1 Raven's Feather Treasure

1 Tamamo No Mae Hero
1 Kitsune Chunin Explore Mini Boss
2 Kitsune Madoushi Explore Paired Spawn
1 Kitsune Kaiken Explore Minion
1 Kitsune Yajiri Explore Minion
1 Kitsune Kunoichi Explore Minion
1 Kitsune Oni Explore Minion
1 Kitsune Chunin Arcade Mini Boss
2 Kitsune Madoushi Arcade Paired Spawn
1 Claws of Kitsune Gang
1 Shuriken Storm Gang
1 Kitsune Mask Treasure

1 Zenyo Ryu Hero
1 Tanchyo Chunin Explore Mini Boss
2 Tanchyo Madoushi Explore Spawning Point
2 Tanchyo Kaiken Explore Minion
2 Tanchyo Yajiri Explore Minion
2 Tanchyo Kunoichi Explore Minion
2 Tanchyo Oni Explore Minion
1 Tanchyo Chunin Arcade Mini Boss
2 Tanchyo Madoushi Arcade Spawning Point
2 Tanchyo Oni Arcade Solo Elite
2 Tanchyo Kaiken Arcade Solo Elite
2 Arrows and Blades Gang
1 Arrow of Seeking Treasure

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June 26th, 2018, 8:36 pm
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@ND_Justin - wow, thank you! I think that greatly increases the value of the upgrade deck! I'm glad I preordered it :)


June 26th, 2018, 8:44 pm
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exnato wrote:
Thanks for the reply, I did figured that to be the reason since critical hits are both a blessing and a curse, but still it was a shock at first, plus in that game our Consul only spawned 2 heart monsters on the first tile and we didn´t loot AND he used the forgotten king tiles (the one with the lake and the ultra stretch path of walls with ivy all around)
It is a challenge that could be surmounted but the Consul was playing to do an overkill so it left a sour taste.


Yeah, sounds like everything was working against you. Those FK tiles are tough, we're not printing anything near that cluttered in second edition.

sleepy_laughter wrote:
@ND_Justin - in case you're still out there, Zenyo Ryu has a 2AP Offensive Action A Feather for Each Eye: Missile 5 Massive Damage

Is there something we're missing with this ability? Compared to Storm of Arrows or just basic missile attacks with a decent chance of critical success, at what point is it intended for this ability to add value? It seems very edge case.


Yeah, it is a lackluster action. It has its place if you have a bonus on your next attack, or you really want to do 2 wounds on a spawning point before it can spawn (you have a higher chance of doing 2 wounds with the single attack, just also a higher chance of doing 0 wounds).

But it's not about balancing individual actions so much as balancing the Hero as a whole. And the rest of Zenyo Ryu is really good! It can reliably make 5 attacks between Storm of Arrows and Wind of Blades, so its other option just wasn't going to be really stellar. It'll get used sometimes though.

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June 26th, 2018, 9:03 pm
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Thanks for the verification @Justin. Shop presentation should have a list like that to be clear it includes 2 clans! I hope Miniature Market adds that deck to their selection soon. Well at least when all decks are available. (I was just thinking whether to get extra Wolf Rider since it's only $7 with 10% discount code, but didn't figure out what else to order yet).


June 26th, 2018, 9:14 pm
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