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 NAS SDE Speculation 
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Denizen
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Future of Ninja All Stars - all the links to NAS, SDE Arena, SDE 2.0 Explore, SDE 2.0 Arcade materials from the announcement
Bringing NAS to SDE - includes the link to Kitsune Clan Warband and Preview materials for Kitsune and Tanchyo upgrade pack.
NAS SDE Upgrade Pack 1

This thread should focus more on speculation on what we think the existing NAS models will do when ported over to SDE (we'll see how long it takes them to release all the new materials/products. It's ND/SPM, so we could still be talking about this through next year :lol: )

Current speculation:

1) Awaiting confirmation as to whether these are repackaged vs. new production as that may have repercussions for SDE:L backers
2) Waiting to see if they'll bundle an upgrade pack for folks that already have everything and don't want to pay $5 + shipping for each pack separately.
3) Waiting to see how they handle the ronin that were part of the KS but are not (to my knowledge) part of retail. Assume they will get an upgrade card and maybe? they release them at retail?
4) Waiting to see if the repackaged NAS will be SPM/ND store exclusives or if folks can expect to see these at retailers (e.g. international customers)
5) Waiting to see how long it takes them to turnaround preorders for the kitsune clan box on 6/27 given the long turnaround for sweetheart candy not to mention Randy hasn't been mentioned being received nor start shipping.

Gameplay speculation:

1) Active spawn points. I am very pumped about this!
2) Madoushi as the spawn points? I guess this makes sense b/c they are the magic wielders. I had originally though they'd use the Oni as 'statues' of spawn points when I was considering how I'd port NAS to SDE in a homebrew campaign. I'll be interested to see if all the clans will follow this pattern (Tanchyo certainly seems to).
3) Active spawn point in Arcade is tagged with Solo to indicate it is a Solo Elite (assumption). Wondering if as an active spawn point it will remain immune to critical success (as written, they will stay immune).
4) Territorial and Retribution seem to be the 'clan' abilities. I like the flavor, although it is yet ANOTHER rule to learn.
5) Kitsune have paired spawn point. Tanchyo has solo spawn points (yay for more solo spawn points!). I think Tanchyo is maybe the only spawn point that can do this b/c it comes with 4 yajiri and 2 kaiken whereas I think? maybe the rest come with 3 yajiri and 3 kaiken. The interesting thing is that the Tanchyo Kaiken end up being pretty beefy elites!

For folks that are NAS and just looking into SDE with the crossover, what mechanics/cool things from NAS do you hope make the port to SDE?

I admittedly know very little about NAS (beyond awesome models) and what's in the NAS SDE Ambush crossover box so I'm interested in learning more!


June 5th, 2018, 2:20 am
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Mini-Boss
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If I'm not mistaken, the active spawn points are currently unplayable in Classic/Explore since they fail to list what they put in the spawn pool.

I understand why they did it, but I think I would have preferred the Chunin as Elite and Oni as mini-bosses, even if for no other reason than to keep them the same as the shrine ninja. Alternatively, for Arena, the Chunin should be the Hero and the Characters the Miniboss.

Tora can also split in two as they have four Kaiken.

Am I the only one really disappointed by the card border? I would have preferred the clan patterns be used, i.e.
Image


June 5th, 2018, 4:40 am
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Just based on the new SDE: Kitsune clan by itself, I'm a little confused as to why the product contents list in the SPM store doesn't match with the product picture. They also don't seem to match the original NAS package picture. The SDE version doesn't have the "sergeant" shown in the pic, but I think he's included.

I don't understand why there are 13 minis shown (14 in NAS), but only 10 actual minis listed in the contents.

As someone who's never officially started NAS, I'd like to know what we're getting now and how it compares to the older versions :)

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June 5th, 2018, 4:50 am
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Denizen
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OMG, the clan border would've looked real nice, but it's also out of place, I think, for what SDE currently has.

I agree, the preview cards have that issue of not listing what's in the spawn pool, that seems really obvious to me, too, but this is ND/SPM and they seem to miss a lot of this stuff regularly. That's why I referred to the Arcade spawn points.

It does kind of feel weird with the chunin as the mini boss and the Oni as elite, BUT, I am glad they did this b/c this means you can have more Oni on the board, which feels more 'monstery'. Mini bosses just don't get as much play, imo, and this means you can mix and match chunin as desired, too, although the clan synergies seem to be pretty strong with the first two released.

In terms of what expansions they could do next, as I'm learning about this, I guess they could do more from the Sun Empire?

Also STING (treasure from Jorogumo):

Hunter: A model with Hunter may reroll a single dice when making offensive actions which target spider, gnoll, or orc models

Is this a spoiler/hint for new/upcoming gnoll models? I don't think there are currently any gnolls in SDE? I would've expected goblins, too, if they were going to riff off lord of the rings/hobbit.

Also...Cola is no longer the only Kitsune!

Dark Kitsune mini boss is a bit odd. Lacks a basic melee attack, but all her special actions are melee. Of course, she can use Let Them Come for Wave 1 AOE instead of basic melee attack - maybe the intent is to make her vulnerable to Ice or maybe b/c it's a mini boss, the statline won't really change w/o equipment (so maybe only affects Arena?)

A bit confused by her arcade version only having 2W STR. Into the Reeds is an oddity, too, with red offensive action, but must be used on self to teleport to farthest spawn square? I'm hoping these won't have a ton of mistakes/typos given they're planning for folks to pay $$$ for the upgrade packs.

She seems modeled after the Kitsune Kunoichi, but she lacks the Territorial ability for offense.

----
Zenyo Ryu's A Feather for Each Eye seems relatively weak. It doesn't increase range or offense compared to basic attack so I'm not sure what the advantage of using it would be over 2 basic attacks. It seems his style is to do a lot of basic attacks b/w Wind of Blades and Storm of Arrows. Once you hit the breakpoint to deal critical success, I guess I'm not sure when the offensive action would be suitable to use (maybe spawn points?, but no increased offense...). Maybe if you have a buff that is on next action only like Fae Alchemist secret ingredient.
----
Tanchyo Oni's To the Sky doesn't indicate Augment or Dangerous, just adjacent model, so assume this is a Dangerous action as worded. Heavenly Toss on the Arcade version is very specific/gives idea on how to use the ability to isolate heroes for Kaiken attacks.
-----

All in all the clans feel very flavorful. Definitely looking forward to what the other clans end up having.


June 5th, 2018, 5:18 am
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@Worship - i'm pretty confident it's a typo. If you look at the Arcade Kitsune spawn points in the preview PDF, it lists the spawn point models (which they really need to have a solution for the explore spawn points, imo).

The Tanchyo spawn points reinforce this.

My expectation is that the SDE NAS warbands will have the same models as the NAS clan boxes, but the NAS card pack and box will be swapped to SDE box and SDE card pack.

*Edited for clarity*
Buying the (repackaged) minis will only get you SDE cards for the minis you're buying. So if you buy the Kitsune clan warband, you will only get the SDE cards for those minis. If you just buy a ronin mini, you only get the SDE card for that ronin.

The Upgrade pack includes no minis, but will include SDE cards for the Kitsune clan warband and the listed ronin.

No one NEEDS to buy the Upgrade Pack or if they wonder what's in it, there is the free print and play (see first post /w link)
******

In terms of adding NAS clan boxes to your collection, my expectation is you'll have these options:

1) buy the retail SDE rebox from ND/SPM when it's available. You'll get the models + SDE cards. Expect $40 + shipping (sounds like $8+ in the US, add intl/customs, etc.). individual small minis seem to be $15.
2) buy discounted NAS clan boxes/individual models from retailers now. Buy the upgrade packs ($5 + shipping) or print and play (cost varies). in the US, at least on amazon, clan boxes have been $20-$35 including prime shipping for quite some time and I usually use amazon as a baseline. Individual minis usually $5-15 depending on demand.
3) buy secondhand NAS models (demand may have increased!) and buy the upgrade pack/print and play.


Last edited by sleepy_laughter on June 6th, 2018, 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



June 5th, 2018, 5:25 am
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
OMG, the clan border would've looked real nice, but it's also out of place, I think, for what SDE currently has.

A bit out of place, but less out of place than using a faded tinted version of the bridge and shrine picture:
Image

Quote:
It does kind of feel weird with the chunin as the mini boss and the Oni as elite, BUT, I am glad they did this b/c this means you can have more Oni on the board, which feels more 'monstery'. Mini bosses just don't get as much play, imo, and this means you can mix and match chunin as desired, too, although the clan synergies seem to be pretty strong with the first two released.

By making the Chunin the mini-boss, they can make Tanchyo and Tora 2 single spawners. By making the Oni elite, we can utilize both Oni models. As I recall, only one mini-boss can be in play at a time in the new rules, so 2 of the same Mini-boss would be a waste. I just think it's weird that in Arena, the squad leader can't start in play.

Quote:
Is this a spoiler/hint for new/upcoming gnoll models? I don't think there are currently any gnolls in SDE? I would've expected goblins, too, if they were going to riff off lord of the rings/hobbit.

If I'm not mistaken, Gnolls were mention as part of the halls of the Lich King/Frostbit Reach level box.


June 5th, 2018, 5:44 am
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This is wonderful news - something to play while waiting for the legends to come, though I would still like some new boards and not proxying the treasure/loot deck :D

btw - where did you get pdf to the first wave of all the upgraded cards :O I tried to find the files myself but couldn't locate them anywhere.

I'm also hoping we get few more bosses to play around but not sure what other miniatures there are to suit bosses.


June 5th, 2018, 7:10 am
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Nekrah wrote:
This is wonderful news - something to play while waiting for the legends to come, though I would still like some new boards and not proxying the treasure/loot deck :D

btw - where did you get pdf to the first wave of all the upgraded cards :O I tried to find the files myself but couldn't locate them anywhere.

sleepy_laughter's first link has all the pdf files. The last link on that page is the upgrade cards.


June 5th, 2018, 7:43 am
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I really have to second the idea of new boards/tiles for this. I have the official crossover kit they made a couple years ago, and I'm reasonably happy with the models (although the fact that some of them are one solid piece of plastic with their model is a little annoying to me). What it didn't include, was any tiles or landscape for the group. Heck, if they'd included that it would have justifiably been a complete level pack at that point.

I'd really like to see something official we can use to get that Ninja All Stars authenticity in our locale. I mean, the backstory they've written explains that some of the heroes of SDE explored further out and discovered the Ninjas, so it only makes sense that we have a bit of that setting to work with, no?

I don't have the original core game, but I know a lot of folks here do -for those who DO have it, is the original board a single folding piece, or is it split like SDE tiles? Do the individual spaces appear to match size with SDE? Does someone have a photo of JUST the board on its own (without any other pieces or accessories nearby)?

---EDIT---
Actually, I found some images over at BGG, looks like the board is its own folding piece, which is ideal. I see it uses corner dots instead of lines (not sure if that was intended for different use in NAS) but it's easy enough to defer where they would connect for lines. Might have to do something about those rooftops, since not all characters would be able to access those , and I'm not sure if the ninjas will/should have an extra ability to access them without breaking the game balance. But... Looks like I need to start watching for a cheap copy of the game here. Bracing for an even larger backlog of unpainted plastic now, haha.


June 5th, 2018, 1:12 pm
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
---EDIT---
Actually, I found some images over at BGG, looks like the board is its own folding piece, which is ideal. I see it uses corner dots instead of lines (not sure if that was intended for different use in NAS) ....

The NAS boards use center dots rather than corner dots, it was an attempt to obscure less of the artwork. Hopefully, the promised arena additions will include rules for the board.


June 5th, 2018, 3:34 pm
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I will make a guess that Samurais and a future release of Shrine Maidens as possible minion creeps.


June 5th, 2018, 3:42 pm
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akai wrote:
I will make a guess that Samurais and a future release of Shrine Maidens as possible minion creeps.

hopefully pets too.


June 5th, 2018, 4:34 pm
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They've been talking about having monsters as spawn points for a good long while now (the Siege of the Citadel spawn points will behave this way). I'm not at all surprised that they've decided to go this route for the ninjas (they also found a pretty thematic justification for it all).

There are quite a lot of cool NAS characters that will be added to SDE now, and I think that's pretty great.


Who will become what?

I'm really excited that they're making bosses. I think that Onryu and Onibaba are likely to become bosses as well.

I think that most of the creature ronin will end up as mini-bosses

Most of the other ronin and clan heroes are likely to become heroes.


But- there are also the Ijin. They just seem more evil than most of the other heroes, and it stands to reason that the ijin heroes could end up as a boss and mini boss.

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June 5th, 2018, 6:38 pm
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Minion
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So. Wait, I'm confused.

If a monster is a spawn point, isn't the a stationary monster?
Or is it a regularly moving monster that basically happens to produce smaller monsters? If that's the case, it almost just makes sense to use minibosses as the spawn points, since they're bigger enemies anyway.


June 5th, 2018, 6:44 pm
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Active spawn points are not immobile. This means they are privy to control effects and count as monsters but are still immune to critical success.

Mini boss don’t spawn until later and generally you don’t want the spawn point super high defense or offense for balance reasons imo.

We’ll see if other clans use the oni as spawn points or if they will also use madoushi.


June 5th, 2018, 8:30 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
....Unlike the upgrade card pack, it will not include the SDE cards for the ronin/individual models, which will be included with those individual models, but those appear to be included in the print and play PDF...


Really? So unless we can print good quality cards, we have to buy the individual minis again to be able to get the SDE cards?

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June 6th, 2018, 3:05 am
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@worship - you have to print the card, buy the upgrade pack, or buy a reboxed model. Another option is buy the card from someone that bought thebupgrade pack butbdoesnt want the ronin.


June 6th, 2018, 3:18 am
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On the discord there was a question of porting the NAS tile to SDE.

This is a homebrew draft/prototype.

Image

Image

Basically trees/high bamboo & buildings > structures

Rice paddies, fence, trees at the edge > difficult terrain

Rather than make the roofs terrain, which I think would require some complex rules for LOS and movement, I opted to instead focus on the high grass and homebrew a tile effect, Cover.

Models in Cover gain Stealth except when targeted by models with Fly. Cover does not block LOS and gives advantage to melee focused warbands and since the tile is 20x20 vs 24x24 as per Arena (30% fewer spaces), this might be a nice change of pace given NAS brings active spawn points that can take advantage of Cover and traditional SDE spawn points can do likewise.

Unlike Arena it's not a mirror, but it can be rotated to change the 'balance'.

Other options to juice it up is to include player placeable blessing goddess, champion, and sentinel models to further shift the board dynamics (which I really want in SDE Arena either at placement or as a Treasure!).

Elevation I didn't have a good way to handle since there isn't space for chasms and one way walls that confer combat bonuses I think is more complex that I'd want to get into for a homebrew.

I don't play Arena so I don't have experience how helpful/useful this'd be, but hopefully NAS folks that want to try SDE Arena can make use of this b/c it should basically 'fit' with the art.


June 6th, 2018, 5:17 pm
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Worship wrote:
sleepy_laughter wrote:
....Unlike the upgrade card pack, it will not include the SDE cards for the ronin/individual models, which will be included with those individual models, but those appear to be included in the print and play PDF...


Really? So unless we can print good quality cards, we have to buy the individual minis again to be able to get the SDE cards?



No. The $5 upgrade pack contains all the cards for the first wave stuff, so you can just buy that. It is cheaper than re-purchasing the minis, even if you only want one hero card. While the upgrade pack doesn't list all of the cards that it contains, it does include a picture that features pretty much all the cards for the ronin heroes, etc.

I'm not exactly sure what sleepy was trying to say before, but if you already have the NAS minis, then grabbing the upgrade deck is a good option (unless you'd prefer to print them).


Edit- it looks like the $5 pack contains all of the cards for the first wave of re-releases. This (unfortunately) does not include all of the cards from the PDF, but does include more than just the Kitsune box set.

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Last edited by odinsgrandson on June 7th, 2018, 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.



June 6th, 2018, 6:20 pm
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Ah, Ok. I see the confusion.

If you buy the (repackaged?) minis, including the kitsune clan SDE warband, you will get the new SDE cards with the minis.

If you buy the upgrade SDE pack, it will include the cards for the kitsune warband AND the ronins, but will not include any minis.

I failed to include context in my earlier statement so I'll fix it.


June 6th, 2018, 6:35 pm
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