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 Is Super Dungeon worth investing in? 
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Bottle Cap

Joined: May 6th, 2018, 8:45 am
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Hello happy nice (hopefully) community! I'm a semi new player in Super Dungeon Explore. I got the first edition of the base Super Dungeon game almost 2 years ago, and for a long time I had no interest in it after the first time I played with a friend. Well I just pulled it out and played it with that same friend earlier today, and it was a blast! So I came to see if Soda Pop was still supporting the game, and from what I've seen it looks like they are, but the work they are putting into the game is not very good I think? So I wanted opinions. As someone who has a interest in the GAMEPLAY specifically (when it comes to modeling, I already do Warhammer 40k, so I got no need), is it worth investing to get expansions and warbands for Super Dungeon? Maybe even the Forgotten King set? I'm just curious what peoples thoughts are!


May 6th, 2018, 8:55 am
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Consul
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Unless you have the chance to get a good deal on multiple items or REALLY need something to play right now, I would suggest waiting a bit.
As you may or may not know Super Dungeon Explore is moving from it's second set of rules to it's third (confusingly enough called v.2) via a kickstarter which has been caught in some sort of development/production limbo for a significant amount of time.
The new rules are not compatible with the materials in the original version!
The new rules has been released for testing purposes, but my take is that only a relatively small amount of dedicated players has really played the new version through and through.

For what it's worth I can only recall people saying the new rules are good.

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May 7th, 2018, 2:00 pm
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Minion
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I actually enjoyed the Super Dungeon Forgotten King Rules... in Classic mode. Arcade wasn't much fun. I've been part of the playtesting for SDE 2.0, and I have to say the rules are much improved. At first I was concerned about Legends having such different rules than Explore, but having played it I can say that they made the right call.

Basically, I agree with Goblin-King. SDE Forgotten King was fun, but waiting until Super Dungeon 2.0 comes out and Super Dungeon Arcade comes out is your best bet for maximal gameplay fun.


May 7th, 2018, 2:14 pm
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Denizen
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I’m a fellow 40k/SDE player. It has been worth it for me to pick up warbands and Forgotten King. The expansions add variety to the game that you’ll want if you play regularly. Fighting kobolds every game will eventually lose its novelty.

-I highly recommend using the 2.0 materials/rules. They’re free to download on the SDL Kickstarter update 118. They make the game faster and more fun.

-If an RPG version interests you, let me know. I’ve built a full campaign module from the Super Dungeon: Legends beta ruleset. (15-20 hours of gameplay, broken down into 6 interconnected adventures). I’m working on a second module already, though this will be a 6-9 hour campaign, broken down into 3 adventures.


May 7th, 2018, 3:07 pm
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Denizen
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I don't know how available all the expansion stuff will be once 2.0 comes out, so it might be worth jumping on whatever you can grab now, if you think you're going to want to play it later. Do like Holy Cross said and check out the 2.0 rules. All the FK stuff and most of the expansions you can get right now will be compatible.


May 7th, 2018, 4:13 pm
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Minion
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I think it is really great, gameplay wise. While we wait for Arcade rules 2.0, I would suggest trying to find the Arena Box. I find the PvP to be an absolute blast. We event played a 3-way game this week-end, which is not supposed to be a thing. Well, it was awesome, really tight from start to finish, with me snatching a victory with 3 points against 2 for both my adversaries.

Take this advice for what it is though. I'm a big fat fan of the game, especially with the 2.0 rules that are coming. 8-)


May 7th, 2018, 4:26 pm
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Denizen
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sproutchu wrote:
I think it is really great, gameplay wise. While we wait for Arcade rules 2.0, I would suggest trying to find the Arena Box. I find the PvP to be an absolute blast. We event played a 3-way game this week-end, which is not supposed to be a thing. Well, it was awesome, really tight from start to finish, with me snatching a victory with 3 points against 2 for both my adversaries.

Take this advice for what it is though. I'm a big fat fan of the game, especially with the 2.0 rules that are coming. 8-)


You didn't download the new rules already? SPM gave us those rules in January.


May 7th, 2018, 4:53 pm
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Minion
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Holy Cross wrote:
sproutchu wrote:
I think it is really great, gameplay wise. While we wait for Arcade rules 2.0, I would suggest trying to find the Arena Box. I find the PvP to be an absolute blast. We event played a 3-way game this week-end, which is not supposed to be a thing. Well, it was awesome, really tight from start to finish, with me snatching a victory with 3 points against 2 for both my adversaries.

Take this advice for what it is though. I'm a big fat fan of the game, especially with the 2.0 rules that are coming. 8-)


You didn't download the new rules already? SPM gave us those rules in January.


Indeed I did! But for someone getting into or back to the game, needing to find the PDF, THEN all the cards and print them, and cut them, and maybe sleeve them (because cardstock you print at home DOES NOT SLIDE AT ALL... !SODA! :D), it may be more interesting for the whole thing to be professionally printed then to chase after all the necessary components.

But yeah, for myself, I did it. No way I was gonna wait any longer!


May 7th, 2018, 5:59 pm
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Denizen
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I echo playing with the 2.0 preview rules to make sure you're both still fans of the gameplay b/c it DOES change things. I think most of us that post on the forums think these are largely positive changes, but that's not the case for everyone (in which case, you will less likely see their opinions here b/c they'll be doing other things :)). Which game modes y'all prefer will also impact which expansions will/will not have value.

I think the warbands and level box expansions are worth the $$$ b/c you get a bunch of minis and can use them in Classic (hero vs consul), Arcade (co-op hero vs AI consul), and PVP Arena (pvp hero & monsters vs hero & monsters). If you're interested in SDE Legends, the former campaign system and now light roleplaying system, this'll give you lots of minis to use with those adventures.

We only have 4 beta SDE Legends encounters released and they currently use:

Heroes
Kobold Warrens - Classic 1.0/2.0
Rock Pile - Caverns of Roxor 1.0/2.0
Bramble Knight - Forgotten King
NPCs (not released)
Kaelly the Netherstrider (expansion mini boss/hero)
Monach Tvar (expansion mini boss/hero - not released)
Kobold Ogre (Classic 1.0/2.0)

Even Holy Cross's homebrew adventure uses minis from multiple expansions (Von Drakk, Mistmourn Coast)

The boss expansions I think are worth it b/c Bosses can make a big impact on the game, but neither creeps nor Bosses are used in PvP Arena and Creeps have a much smaller role in SDE 2.0.

I do NOT think the single hero and mini boss expansions will be worth the $$$ to most folks unless you play enough or like the mini/hobby enough to justify the cost. A lot of the product has been out for awhile so you can find a lot of it discounted online if you can't find it at your FLGS.

Price comparisons (~online prices):
$60 Level Box (Von Drakk/Roxor) - 3 heroes, 3 spawning points, 1 mini boss, 1 boss - Roxor 2.0 ~$50 - note that Roxor 1.0 is online for ~$50 but does not come with 2.0 compatible cards. There are 3 different sculpts, too.
$50 Ninja Ambush - 3 heroes, 4 spawning points, 2 mini boss ~$40
$40 Masterclass large hero (Tusk Raider) - 1 hero
$40 PVP Arena - 1 hero, Arena tile (4), loot deck, treasure deck, tokens ~$32
$40 Warband - 1 hero, 2 spawning points, 1 mini boss ~$30
$35 Iron Golem - digital SDE game, 1 mini boss ~$25
$30 Masterclass large mini-boss (Mistmourn Warg) - 1 mini boss
$30 Tile Pack - 6 tiles (double sided, 12 tiles), 12 creeps/alt pet
$25 Boss expansion - 1 boss, 6 creeps/alt pet
$20 Masterclass small hero (Twilight Knight, Takoashi girls) - 1 hero
$20 Plastic large base hero (Deeproot Wolf Rider) - 1 hero
$15 Kunoichi Candy/Ninja Cola - 2 hero/alt mini boss ~$10
$15 Brave Mode Candy/Cola - 1 hero, 1 pet ~$10
$13 Single Plastic Hero/Mini-boss - 1 hero/alt mini boss ~$10

I would not recommend buying any 1.0 expansions (Fireflow Denizens, Rocktop Gang, Caverns of Roxor 1.0) since no upgrade decks are available and you'll have to print/play your own or buy Roxor 2.0.


May 7th, 2018, 6:32 pm
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Consul
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sproutchu wrote:
Holy Cross wrote:
sproutchu wrote:
I think it is really great, gameplay wise. While we wait for Arcade rules 2.0, I would suggest trying to find the Arena Box. I find the PvP to be an absolute blast. We event played a 3-way game this week-end, which is not supposed to be a thing. Well, it was awesome, really tight from start to finish, with me snatching a victory with 3 points against 2 for both my adversaries.

Take this advice for what it is though. I'm a big fat fan of the game, especially with the 2.0 rules that are coming. 8-)


You didn't download the new rules already? SPM gave us those rules in January.


Indeed I did! But for someone getting into or back to the game, needing to find the PDF, THEN all the cards and print them, and cut them, and maybe sleeve them (because cardstock you print at home DOES NOT SLIDE AT ALL... !SODA! :D), it may be more interesting for the whole thing to be professionally printed then to chase after all the necessary components.

But yeah, for myself, I did it. No way I was gonna wait any longer!


This is a big part of why SDE is dead to me right now, despite the rules being available.
No way in heck I'm gonna go through all that hassle when I've paid good money to play with professionally printed components.

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May 7th, 2018, 9:40 pm
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Minion
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I can understand the feeling. I did it partly because I like to PnP stuff, so why not do it for a game I love? But not everyone is up to it and I can see why.

Playing with the new rules and cards made me feel very confident in the 2.0 version however, so there was a nice boon to it!


May 7th, 2018, 11:40 pm
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Ninja Corps
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If all you have is the very original super dungeon explore, a whole lot as changed and is changing more. Some people have talked about stuff, but I havn't seen a real breakdown of what all the thigns they are talking about mean for someone who only has the perspective of the original game.

So, the original game is just a one versus many dungeon crawler (a solid game in it's own right). A while back, a new base set called Forgotten King was released. This drastically altered how the game worked in many ways. It also created what is called "arcade mode" which is a fully cooperative version of the game (the consul runs on an AI). This iteration of the game (technically the "current" version) has it's ups and downs. The biggest down is that the game length became very, very, long in many cases. Upwards of 5 or 6 (or more) hours for a game. This version also rendered basically all of the cardboard components of the original obsolete. So, the loot and treasure decks, the hero and monster cards and even the tiles were not _really_ compatible with the forgotten king era rules. You could jury rig some things to work still, but it's not really that great.

The most recent kickstarter for the game was originally designed to introduce a campaign version of the game. However, there was a fan lead outcry for "this is the best change you will have to fix the heck out of all the problems in Forgotten King". So, they listened to that (for better or worse, opinions differ). Instead of making a campaign version (referred to as "legends") and making small rules updates to the Forgotten King rule set, they set out to create a fully updated and completely revamped "version 2.0" of, basically, everything. This has lead the the kickstarter taking much longer than originally planned (again, opinions differ on weather or not this was worth it or not). But it has resulted in a drastically different set of rules for all the modes of play. To drop my own opinion here, I do think all the version of the rules for 2.0 are by far the best versions so far.

All the different versions (or "modes) of the game that exist now are:
Classic - This is the version of the game that is the "original" version of one player playing the consul and one or more players playing the heroes
Arcade - This is the fully cooperative version of the game. Only players playing heroes versus and automated dungeon
Legends - This has become a fully fledged light role playing system. Characters are created from whole cloth and a GM runs them through the game. Not necessarily in the role of the consul, trying to beat the heroes, but in a more traditional "arbiter of the world" role, like traditional tabletop RPGs.
Arena - This is a PVP version of the game. Each side choose a mix of heroes, mini bosses and monster spawns and then has a battle against another player using all this.
Pet Parade - This is less it's own specific mode, and is instead an expansion that can be added on to Classic and Arcade which adds pet companions for the heroes and "creeps" for the consul which tend to be less significant, but annoying, monsters that are often part of some sort of plot the heroes have to deal with (plots for the consul being a new part of the game introduced in the 2.0 versions).

This is a brief history of the game up until now. Most people in these forums consider 2.0 to be the current rule set. But, it's not available in retail. We are still waiting for the kickstarter to deliver on that, physically. As was stated previously, the rules and printable versions of all the printable components are available for free now. The only thing not available, that I know of, are tiles to play on.

So, should you invest in it? Short answer (in my opinion) is yes. Long answer is that certain components are being re-released with new rules.

This includes the new Classic rules box, which will have the Kobold/Rex/Starfire minis in it as well as some of the original heroes. What it will have that you don't have yet are new versions of all these minis (they aren't just reproducing the ones in the old set) so you will at least have different looking versions of the same minis if you get this. It will have rules-compatible treasure and loot decks as well as new decks that did not exist in the original version (the plot deck and things like that). It will also have updated cards for the heroes and monsters, on top of that is will have classic-mode versions of all the monsters that come in the Arcade base set as well as multiple "alternative" profiles for the kobold spawn point. What that means is that it will have the traditional kobold cards, similar in flavor to what you have now, as well as frost kobolds and dark kobolds, if memory serves. They use the same models, but change up fairly drastically how they play. So you get a lot of variety out of one set of models. It also comes with all the other basic components like tokens and some token creeps and chests, dice, tiles all that stuff. It's a full base set for playing Classic mode.

The next base set coming out is the Arcade base set. That will have entirely new stuff to you. The models in it Are the Midnight Queen as the boss and a thematically related mini boss and spawn points (that I can't specifically remember off the top of my head). These will be new minis to everyone. It will also include all the basic components for play. The treasure and loot decks will be different from the Classic version loot and Treasure decks (I believe, someone can check me on that if I'm wrong). These decks will be cross compatible with each other though. It will include the arcade versions of the included boss, mini boss and spawns (heroes use the same cards for any version of the game) as well as the Arcade versions of all the minis you already have, as well as the alternative versions of the kobolds in Arcade format.

As for stuff out now. The Forgotten King base set is a good investment. It has a lot of very good minis in it. It comes with tiles and all the base components for the game. The monster and hero cards included are going to be compatible with the 2.0 version. Almost all forgotten king era cardboard is compatible with the 2.0 version in fact. Some heroes and monsters are receiving minor tweaks for things that just don't work anymore. But those are relatively few. As such, anything from forgotten king era on is not necessarily a bad idea to get. It mostly comes down to personal preferences, budget, space, all that. There really isn't such a thing as an objectively "bad" add on for the game. Some people may like turtles more than zombies. but both defiantly add to the games diversity in a positive way.

The biggest stumbling block you may have is finding updated versions of what you already own. However this site http://sde.invarti.com/library has up-to-date versions of all or almost all the heroes (definitely all the ones you have) as well as Classic mode versions of nearly all the monsters (that have had stats released). So that is a good resource for players trying to catch up with the rules and stats and stuff.

TL;DR: Once you familiarize yourself with the moderately confusing history of the rules versions of the game I believe it is fully worth investing in. What you invest in will be largely up to your personal tastes, but there is no wrong path.


May 8th, 2018, 12:03 am
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Denizen
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So apparently 5 of the 2.0 classic tiles have previews. Haven’t figured out which update have them yet. This is with tile effects and not just art.


May 8th, 2018, 12:28 am
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Mini-Boss
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
So apparently 5 of the 2.0 classic tiles have previews. Haven’t figured out which update have them yet. This is with tile effects and not just art.

Update #118 had 8 Dragonback peak and 8 Midnight tower maps, making the 4 double sided tiles for each of the starter boxes, Explore/Classic and Arcade. #119 had 2 pet parade maps.


May 8th, 2018, 1:49 am
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Denizen
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Imriel wrote:
sleepy_laughter wrote:
So apparently 5 of the 2.0 classic tiles have previews. Haven’t figured out which update have them yet. This is with tile effects and not just art.

Update #118 had 8 Dragonback peak and 8 Midnight tower maps, making the 4 double sided tiles for each of the starter boxes, Explore/Classic and Arcade. #119 had 2 pet parade maps.


thank you, Imriel! I literally had the PDFs on my computer, but never actually went through them -.-.


May 8th, 2018, 3:05 am
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Bottle Cap
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Usagi wrote:
Almost all forgotten king era cardboard is compatible with the 2.0 version in fact.


Thank you, Usagi! For newer players, it's really tricky terrain, and this post is so generous for people hoping to navigate it. The almost here raises more questions for me though. I know that there is some errata here and there on character abilities, but is there anything obvious to avoid? I was thinking about getting Von Drakk's tiles, for example.


May 8th, 2018, 4:53 pm
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Denizen
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@Lucern - there isn't anything obvious I recall with any of the core boxes. Most of the errata I'm aware of are things like support actions being printed as offensive actions (which often make them OP). These you can rationalize b/c there is no attack icon to indicate which dice to roll (e.g. Arena Champion, Codifier Kisa), which isn't FK/2.0 specific, just a misprint. FK has 1 treasure printed as FK only when it's just a general treasure (corrected in the Arcade 2.0 treasure deck).

Some like Twilight Knight and Deeproot Wolf Rider have potions that have different effects in Arcade that aren't printed on their cards and only exist in a KS update. I've added these to the SDE wikia when I find them. Twilight Knight's potion was updated from FK > 2.0 and you can see it on the Resin Twilight Knight on the SPM store now.

I spend most of my time looking at the heroes so if you have questions, the forums are still a good place to ask for help. Ninja Scott said that Ninja Justin should be reviewing the forums/communicating again and they already answered some rules questions that came up recently for Arcade.

Finally, searching the forums is really helpful (especially for me) b/c there are a lot of answered questions that may be years old :). That's how I found out some info for when I was not actively engaged I the SDE community.


May 8th, 2018, 6:26 pm
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Bottle Cap
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I hope after this is all said and done they take some time to go and clean up those erratas.

For instance some of the FK arcade cards incorrectly declare elite/minion (frog knights) or didn't include an affinity (will-o-wisps if I remember correctly, not that it matters that much).

I would like to be able to get an updated Deeproot Wolf Rider card, or make an "official" ruling on Scarecrow's "fixable" and Royal Warden's "Tax Collector" that don't quite make sense in 2.0

for what it is worth FK errata: https://ninjadivision.com/wp-content/up ... 7-2015.pdf though it doesn't include things like the wolf rider in arcade it does cover things like missing ranges and what to do with bone piles in arcade (ah memories of opening up cards and reporting some of these. that warm fuzzy feeling of being the first to point out errors)


May 8th, 2018, 8:25 pm
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Denizen
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The FK alt profile monster cards seemed to have corrected those issues. Hopefully SDE:L will be less riddled with errors, but we've already seen that SPM's quality control is not pristine, but still largely playable. It would be nice if they'd release PDF's of digitally corrected cards so fans can print these out to fix the retail product.

Royal Warden/Calico Kate's ability still 'work' in 2.0. Scarecrow just ignore fixable (I'm not sure it added much value to start). Deeproof Wolf Rider's potion errata is only relevant in Arcade -- I think everything's on the SDE wikia since it can be a chore to search the SPM forums and KS comments.

I think the FK errata came out maybe before the Wolf Rider and Twilight Knight errata was given in the FK KS updates?

Either way, I think it'd be nice for SPM to rebalance all the heroes that got nerfed pretty hard by the SDE 2.0 status effect changes and at a minimum release digitally corrected cards rather than just an errata list. Most of this may just be reducing the cost of actions that only inflict status effects or correspondingly increase their offense.


May 8th, 2018, 10:09 pm
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Ninja Corps
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lucern wrote:
Usagi wrote:
Almost all forgotten king era cardboard is compatible with the 2.0 version in fact.


Thank you, Usagi! For newer players, it's really tricky terrain, and this post is so generous for people hoping to navigate it. The almost here raises more questions for me though. I know that there is some errata here and there on character abilities, but is there anything obvious to avoid? I was thinking about getting Von Drakk's tiles, for example.


Aside from errataed content and a handful of things that don't work 100% with new rules, I was mostly referring to things that just don't exist in the 2.0 rule set like explore cards. They just will have no official use in the 2.0 ruleset, so aren't compatible.


May 9th, 2018, 12:04 am
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