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 Is Super Dungeon worth investing in? 
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Denizen
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Joined: December 11th, 2015, 1:39 am
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To elaborate on what Usagi is saying, you can be confident in any purchases of FK or later. Even if parts don't apply, you can still use the rest. That's not true with 1.0 - original Roxor, original Von Drakk and original kobolds/Starfire are absolutely not compatible with 2.0. Reprinted Von Drakk and reprinted Roxor definitely ARE compatible, though, so just make sure you're getting the right one and you'll be fine.


May 9th, 2018, 4:58 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: February 26th, 2017, 5:31 pm
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Thanks
Usagi wrote:
lucern wrote:
Usagi wrote:
Almost all forgotten king era cardboard is compatible with the 2.0 version in fact.


Thank you, Usagi! For newer players, it's really tricky terrain, and this post is so generous for people hoping to navigate it. The almost here raises more questions for me though. I know that there is some errata here and there on character abilities, but is there anything obvious to avoid? I was thinking about getting Von Drakk's tiles, for example.


Aside from errataed content and a handful of things that don't work 100% with new rules, I was mostly referring to things that just don't exist in the 2.0 rule set like explore cards. They just will have no official use in the 2.0 ruleset, so aren't compatible.


Thanks Usagi, as well as InfinityMax and sleepy laughter. I'll have a small army of skeletons and fire flowers on their way shortly. I had read somewhere on these forums about some of the secret passages in Von Drakk being problematic (in Arcade, maybe?), but it's good to know that though things like this may not be ideal, the tiles still work fine.


May 10th, 2018, 3:44 pm
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The secret passages (for any mode) undermine the core concept of the game where you go from Tile 1 > Tile 2 > Tile 3 and rely on high mobility champions to 'skip ahead' to pick up treasure chests or kill spawn points b/f monsters have time to react (in 2.0 anyways -- in FK, you'll likely get creamed unless you can get in and get out in 1 activation).

With Secret Passages in Classic, it opens up some cheesy strategies like hit and run and then block the secret passage to avoid reprisal or just always being in danger of being flanked. In Arcade, Monsters don't use/pay attention to secret passages so the heroes can somewhat abuse it -- which can be thematically fun, but also trivialize the game so it's not fun.

Some folks just don't play secret passages at all to avoid this and there's only 1 tile that has areas you can only reach by secret passage or fly/burrow. I play secret passages and it hasn't been a 'problem', but my group acknowledges that they can be easy to abuse.

I was on the fence with the tile packs before I got them b/c I felt like they weren't necessary, and they aren't, but they definitely help set the mood of the game since I like to fight monsters that are themed (same color if possible) and on a corresponding themed tile.


May 10th, 2018, 4:57 pm
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Ninja Corps
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
The secret passages (for any mode) undermine the core concept of the game where you go from Tile 1 > Tile 2 > Tile 3 and rely on high mobility champions to 'skip ahead' to pick up treasure chests or kill spawn points b/f monsters have time to react (in 2.0 anyways -- in FK, you'll likely get creamed unless you can get in and get out in 1 activation).

With Secret Passages in Classic, it opens up some cheesy strategies like hit and run and then block the secret passage to avoid reprisal or just always being in danger of being flanked. In Arcade, Monsters don't use/pay attention to secret passages so the heroes can somewhat abuse it -- which can be thematically fun, but also trivialize the game so it's not fun.

Some folks just don't play secret passages at all to avoid this and there's only 1 tile that has areas you can only reach by secret passage or fly/burrow. I play secret passages and it hasn't been a 'problem', but my group acknowledges that they can be easy to abuse.

I was on the fence with the tile packs before I got them b/c I felt like they weren't necessary, and they aren't, but they definitely help set the mood of the game since I like to fight monsters that are themed (same color if possible) and on a corresponding themed tile.
Yeah, the secret passages were designed for the FK ruleset. They were a good and fun idea when the game worked that way. But these days, with 2.0, they just don't really mesh. You can technically use them, but they are horribly unbalanced. It is 100% possible to completely ignore them and the tiles are still just as usable as any other tiles. They are actually pretty interesting ones in many cases while still ignoring the passages. The Von Drakk tiles (at least from memory) tend to have a lot more shrines on them that can be a lot of fun to try and push monsters off of and use against them (or, try to hold while the heroes work at pushing you off, depending on mode and side you are on ;P).


May 10th, 2018, 11:49 pm
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Oh my goodness! I thank you all so much for all this Feedback! I was honestly expecting a quick one or two answers, but the extensive conversations are honestly super helpful~!
I just wish I was able to reply back earlier! :lol:
But in the time since I last made this thread 10 days ago or so, I ended up going for it, and I bought Forgotten King to play with my buds, and it was a lot of fun! I have not yet tried to try and combine sets, but like Usagi pointed out in a very large post of his, it looks like I won't be able to directly, but I did look into the updated rules for the heroes. All in all, I'm quite happy with my choices! My only wish is that I had a local community to play Super Dungeon more often! :D
But now the questions is, where do I go from here? Now I'm curious more on peoples personal opinions on what are the best warbands and sets to obtain after forgotten king! And I'm also extremely excited for the 2nd edition of the original set! The models look sweet!
I will be replying to new things from here on out every night, so if anyone has more tips on what to get, and/or questions for me, let me know!

-With sincere thanks, LeiShen


May 17th, 2018, 7:27 am
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Oh boy, personal opinion stuff! :P

As far as war bands go, a couple I really like are the Silt Town Zombies and the Claws of the Wyrm. The models in both of those are very cool looking I think. They also both have pretty outstanding spawn points when it comes to a unique feel. The heroes in both of them, admittedly, are pretty niche and not really playable in every game setup. The Dragonblade hero (claws of the wyrm) can be so-so to devistating depending on what the consul is playing. Survivor Marie-Claude (silt town) can be very strong, if she gets the right gear. Bad gear makes her difficult to do much with as a melee hero with not the best attack stats to start with (though, she does live up to her "survivor" name on defense). The mini bosses are pretty cool too. Ser Sharpclaw (claws of the wyrm) is a pretty vicious mini boss. Has a tendency to be a little like a glass cannon, but can be devastating when it comes to status effects. As a bonus, he also has a "dark hero" persona in the form of the Wyrm Claw Templar. I don't think that card is included (though I could be totally wrong on that). There are numerous mini bosses that have hero versions, and vice versa. You can find most, if not all, of them on sde.invarti.com. Gruesome George (silt town) is an interesting mini-boss. He's not top tier, but he's a fun finesse piece. Play him just right, and he can be pretty crushing.

I also recommend the Ninja Ambush warband. It's main drawback is that it doesn't really mesh, thematically, with anything else in the SDE world yet (it is a crossover set from the Ninja All-Stars game). It's main advantage is that within the single set, you find a LOT of diversity as each spawn, mini-boss and hero has a special ability that is basically "choose one of six special abilities for this to be at the start of the game" and what you choose can drastically change how they are played. So, there is a lot of diversity in a small package.

Expansion bosses are, really, all good. Tetsudo Tower is probably one of the better ones on the field. He's a definite challenge to beat and fun to play as the consul at the same time. However, Beatrix is just adorable as hell too. The big thing with bosses is that when the new wave of 2.0 stuff starts releasing, there is a MASSIVE amount of new bosses included in that material. Essentially doubling the number of dungeon bosses in the game. Some of them specifically designed to be "hard mode" bosses as well (they will have difficulty ratings that could afford hero groups a handicap). However, when, in what order, and how rapidly they hit retail successively is really anyone's guess.

I previously talked about what a lot of the yet-to-be-released 2.0 stuff will be, and what it will add. So, I won't repeat myself on any of that. The new rules are great. But they are also currently available to anyone who wants them without owing any of the new base material (so long as you are willing ti print out the required materials as well in some capacity). But, I would recommend the new base sets once they release, still. :P

Overall, there's nothing I would say "avoid this one" for. I have, over the years, bought everything out there and i have and continue to use it all. It doesn't hurt to ask what any particular set, hero, (mini)boss or anything like that is like, specifically, before getting it. Some are subjectively worse or better than others. But you are unlikely to buy something and go "well, this was a dumb purchase" at any point.


May 17th, 2018, 3:32 pm
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Denizen
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I am 'making' my local community out of my co-worker/friends. Also just going to FLGS and getting involved in the community can help find folks that are also interested but don't play...yet!

I personally recommend investing time in at least reading the 2.0 classic/arcade/pet parade rulesets so you'll be familiar with upcoming changes. There's no reason to not keep playing FK b/c you enjoy it, but I think a lot of playgroups did realize there are some shortcomings/improvements (largely play length) that could be made and the 2.0 rules address that. Depending on how finnicky your playgroup is, you can houserule/steal the parts that make the most sense/relevance for your group to keep having fun.

The level boxes, ambush ninja box, and warbands are the best bang for buck of minis/game. The Level boxes notably get you extra bosses to play with and are generally the best value.

My personal preference is Von Drakk > Caverns of Roxor b/c Von Drakk has 3 shapeshifting models that you don't get any in FK. Roxor's turtles are best in Classic b/c you can use the Throw mechanic. It's not as cool in Arcade b/c no Throwing shells at people.

After you've collected at least 1 warband, if you prefer pvp, only have 2 players, want to make more use of your mini bosses, then Arena gets you the arena tile and rulebook. Its rules are also closer to the 2.0 ruleset.

My preference for warband is stilt town (bonus pet) > claws of wyrm (bonus alt hero for mini boss) > emerald valley (strong hero, cute monsters and mini boss) > mistmourn coast (same sculpt as roxor for salt pillar minions, but the trolls are awesome looking)

I usually leave the single expansions to buy based on what your group wants b/c these are usually the weakest mini to $$ ratio, but there are a lot of options as a result. I usually do Heroes > Bosses > Mini bosses b/c heroes are used all game, Bosses are the culmination of a match, and there are just so many mini-bosses and they don't always have a big impact on the game. Note a lot of single expansion heroes/mini bosses have an alt profile so those are multi use :).

For tile sets, I personally prefer crystal dungeon > von drakk > dragonback peaks. The creep models are rattle bones > slimes > fire flowers for me, but you wont really use them in 2.0 unless you play pet parade, which has mixed feedback based on the folks that post on the forum recently. I'd probably pick up a tile set rather than 2 single expansion heroes if you've played a lot b/c for me, it adds more immersion to play with themed tiles, but obviously...you can always just make your own 12x12 tiles if you're so inclined. Gameplay wise, it often won't make a huge impact unless you play with really tough tiles and/or want to specifically have chokepoints.


Last edited by sleepy_laughter on May 17th, 2018, 6:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.



May 17th, 2018, 5:29 pm
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Denizen
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I guess things to avoid from my end would primarily be single hero/mini boss expansions that you're not like omg, must have. A lot of heroes got nerfed in 2.0 due to status effects being removed at end of activation so those heroes, unless you absolutely love them, may not see/get a lot of play as your collection expands.


May 17th, 2018, 5:30 pm
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I basically agree with sleepy_laughter. The thing to avoid is getting a completion bug. If you don't think you want a thing, don't get it. I've passed on several models or sets because I just didn't think they went with what I needed, and I don't regret it at all (though if SPM decides to re-release the original Candy & Cola, even with a resculpt, I AM IN).

I like the Von Drakk level box a lot. I have had a blast painting them. Kobolds and dragons are awesome, but wait for 2.0 and don't get 1.0 because you won't be able to use them unless you can find the conversion cards.

Basically, Super Dungeon is almost as much about the theme as it is the gameplay, so pick stuff you want to play. Ghosts look fun? Grab Beatrice and her entourage. Not a fan of rock-shelled turtle monsters? Pass on Roxor. There's a lot available, and a lot more coming, so you can afford to cherry pick. Especially if you paint, you probably want to ease into this thing.


May 17th, 2018, 5:43 pm
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InfinityMax wrote:
Kobolds and dragons are awesome, but wait for 2.0 and don't get 1.0 because you won't be able to use them unless you can find the conversion cards.


This isn't necessarily true. The 2.0 rules will have one paired spawn of kobolds. But, it will come with 3 different versions of kobolds on the cards (fire, frost and shadow). If you get the original box, that gives you 3 paired sets of kobolds. one for each version. Though, unless you are painting them differently, you won't need more than 2 sets, as that's the most hat can fit on the map at the same time, in a large player game. You would also have 2 young dragon spawn sets for their 3 profiles in 2.0 as well. Another advantage is that the sculpts are different between the two sets of the same monsters. Disadvantages are cost, of course. the original set can be a bit expensive, but comes with a LOT of minis. The other disadvantage (to some) is assembly. the original set did not come assembled and requires a lot of gluing. But, ultimately, like anything else it comes down to personal preference on how you want to go.


May 18th, 2018, 12:33 am
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Denizen
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OK, yes, but you can't play 1.0 with FK unless you get the card upgrades, which were apparently the most expensive thing Soda Pop ever produced because they're out of print and crazy hard to get. And the question was about what to buy now, and if you buy 1.0 now you won't be able to use anything in the box except the dice.


May 18th, 2018, 2:31 pm
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Denizen
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InfinityMax wrote:
OK, yes, but you can't play 1.0 with FK unless you get the card upgrades, which were apparently the most expensive thing Soda Pop ever produced because they're out of print and crazy hard to get. And the question was about what to buy now, and if you buy 1.0 now you won't be able to use anything in the box except the dice.



Most card upgrades are available for free.

Either at SDE.Invarti.com

or, in the downloads for the arcade and classic mode from the legends kickstarter, you get copies of all the cards.

Is it ideal? !SODA! NO. But it is playable and everything is usable. It just takes more personal investment than not at this point of having to print and cut cards.


May 18th, 2018, 4:42 pm
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Denizen
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I think all the SDE 1.0 cards have replacements in SDE 2.0 anyways and those should be used over the FK upgrade versions, imo. Also get alt profiles. Either way you're printing something.


May 18th, 2018, 4:52 pm
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