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 Should I buy SDE 1st edition bundle? 
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Bottle Cap

Joined: July 27th, 2017, 3:47 am
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I am wanting to get into this hobby with my daughter....should I wait for Legends?


April 13th, 2018, 5:17 am
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Denizen
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Joined: February 11th, 2014, 10:03 pm
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Location: Camp Pendleton, California
That’s a tough call because Legends wave 1 is “right around the corner” but no one knows how soon.

I’d say buy 1.0 or FK if you can get a good price, but print out the free PDFs for 2.0 so you can play those rules.


April 13th, 2018, 2:23 pm
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Minion
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I highly recommend Forgotten King. Not sure what "bundle" you're looking at, but Forgotten King by itself is $100 on their online store, and contains everything you'll need to decide if you'd enjoy the game before you go and get a bunch of expansions. Plus Forgotten King is not being remade as part of the 2.0 stuff and SPM has promised full compatibility for all the components.

If you buy 1.0 and later decide to buy more stuff, you'll notice that all of the loot and treasure cards have different backs. The included Blue dice are also slightly lower quality, with a higher chance to have stars looking slightly off. Also, 1.0 requires assembly, which can take several hours with super-glue before you can play the game. None of these problems are deal-breakers, and the game is still fun: but if you're just getting in now and open to getting more stuff in the future, then Forgotten King is definitely the better starting point.


April 13th, 2018, 2:53 pm
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Denizen
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Joined: April 16th, 2014, 6:41 pm
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I would skip 1st edition and wait the new release so that you won't get "duplicate" monsters. I would consider Forgotten King depending on price and start playing with printed 2.0 rules.


April 13th, 2018, 3:25 pm
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Denizen
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I prefer 1.0 rules to FK, but I have to admit that the recommendations here are spot on. Do you want a ton of super glue on your fingers? Do you want cards that you can't use with the new versions? Do you want tiles that don't have adequate iconography to use with the newest rules? Then 1.0 is fine. But do you want tiles and cards you can use with 2.0? Do you want minis that are already assembled? Then get Forgotten King.

Although I have to admit that I'm super OK with duplicate monsters, since SPM is releasing alternates so you can make your spare kobolds into frost kobolds or whatever.


April 13th, 2018, 3:34 pm
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Mini-Boss
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At this point-of-view, ND/SPM imposed to itself a trap to block the entrance of newcomers into Super Dungeon. The task of release at retail the core boxes ASAP must be priority. Barely you can find 1st edition from scalpers and Forgotten King... well... not sounds interesting to a newbie hear about the need to print some PDF to enjoy the game he/she thinks to purchase.

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April 13th, 2018, 3:51 pm
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Denizen
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Joined: February 11th, 2014, 10:03 pm
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It’s definitely not an ideal situation to print PDFs, and not a situation that SPM desires right now. Unfortunately is the best way, right now, to get the best SDE experience.


April 13th, 2018, 5:05 pm
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Denizen
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The question should really be FK now or wait until SDE:L for ??? time and ??? $$$ (not sure they have a retail MSRP yet). SDE 1.0 is really just buying minis that will be reprinted since much of the game content was replaced with FK anyways and FK has far fewer components that are replaced by 2.0. FK will unlikely have any more copies printed in its current incarnation since the rules are replaced by 2.0.

Also, FK is listed on the online store, but is out of stock, but I think it's on amazon for $107 prime shipping, which is quite good considering how big/heavy the box is.

We don't know the SDE:L 2.0 classic or arcade MSRP, but they will have fewer minis than SDE 1.0 or FK in terms of entry point.

I highly recommend FK for the minis, but not the ruleset, and there is some work you need to do to use the SDE 2.0 rules so you'll have to decide if the additional effort will be worth the time vs. just waiting.

FK comes with:
5 heroes
2 single spawn points, 7 monsters + 1 spawn, 16 models total -- 2 alternate profiles available
1 linked spawn point, 12 monsters + 2 spawns, 14 models total -- 2 alternate profiles available
2 mini bosses, both can be played as heroes
1 dungeon boss
6 pets - compatible with Pet Parade, but need to use the new profiles
6 creeps - compatible with Pet Parade, may also be used as a pet
*Treasure chest and boo booty models
6 double sided dungeon tiles compatible with 2.0 - SDE 1.0 tiles are a diff. size and don't have proper tile effects
Counters compatible with 2.0 -- the only things you are missing are activation counters (I use keys) and Immobile (new, official status effect - I use skulls in arcade b/c there are many options) - SDE 1.0 counters are not compatible
Loot deck - mostly compatible with 2.0, there are minor balance changes
Treasure deck - mostly compatible with 2.0, there are corrections and minor balance changes (pets are no longer treasures)

*These are not included in 2.0 - counters are used instead

To play FK /w 2.0 classic you need:
1) SDE 2.0 classic rules
2) SDE 2.0 classic Mighty Monster Chart (MMC) & backpack
3) (opt) Add/update to 2.0 Classic loot cards
4) (opt) Add/update to 2.0 Classic treasure cards
5) Use proxy tokens for Immobile (crystals) and Activation (i used keys)

You can play 3 to 5 hero classic games. 6 hero games require you use a mini boss as a hero, but you also need 2 mini bosses.
Pets and creeps are not used. This is the lowest effort to use 2.0 rules, but is pvp.

To play FK /w 2.0 Arcade you need:
1) SDE 2.0 Arcade rules
2) SDE 2.0 Arcade Mighty Monster Chart (MMC) & backpack
3) (opt) Add/update to 2.0 Arcade loot cards (2.0 Arcade loot is based off FK loot)
4) (opt) Add/update to 2.0 Arcade treasure cards (2.0 Arcade loot is based off FK loot)
5) Use proxy tokens for Immobile (crystals) and Activation (i used keys)
6) SDE 2.0 challenge & boss challenge cards
7) SDE 2.0 plot cards

You can play 3 to 5 hero arcade games. 6 hero games require you use a mini boss as a hero, but you also need 2 mini bosses.
Pets and creeps are not used. This can require quite a bit of printing for the challenge and plot cards, but is pve, and some folks have digital solutions rather than print stuff out.

Pet Parade is two parts - pets and creeps. To play pets you need:
1) Pet Parade rules
2) Pet cards

Pets make the game easier for the heroes at the cost of increasing play time. But pets are super cute.

To play Pet Parade Creeps you need:
1) Pet Parade rules
2) Explore Consul Plot Card
3) Arcade Challenge Card
4) Arcade Plot Card

Creeps add a lot more flavor to the game, especially for Arcade Plots, and can add a lot of minis to the board and thus can extend play time, but appear to be balanced around having 12 creeps (as per tile packs) per plot and challenge so 6 squirrels may often be insufficient to cover all the creeps you may normally need except in some 3 hero/tile games.

Still, there must be something to be said about trying to avoid and/or defeat the squirrels so they don't invade your pants.
===============================================

for me, to print the arcade MMC/backpack, core cards, pet parade cards on nice card stock cost ~$50 (b/c i wanted free shipping) at staples. Other folks have been able to do it much cheaper for ~$20. So that's an added expense if you print, but it can also be a nice project if you want to do something together.

===============================================

Waiting on SDE:L will most likely:

1) Wait an unknown amount of time for a product with no set release date for ks delivery or retail (assume SPM will share dates once they can guarantee them)
2) Let you pick SDE Classic or SDE Arcade to better fit what you want to do -- TBD if this will cost less than FK due to lower # of models.
SDE Classic and SDE Arcade only let you play their specific mode out of the box, but you can still print all the preview rules out to play the other mode same as FK.
The big difference is you'll have fewer models and thus can't play 5-6 hero games w/o getting more minis/proxies and wont' have pets/creeps
6 heroes (1 more devoted hero, no mini bosses that can be played as heroes)
3 spawns worth of monsters (-1 spawn worth of monsters, but they will also have alternate profiles)
1 mini boss (cannot be played as hero)
1 dungeon boss (Arcade Boss has Daemonus, so actually 2 models :))
Treasure chests and boo booties are now counters
No pets or creeps models
**Don't have to print anything extra, but you CAN still do so to play the mode you didn't purchase and Pet parade.


April 13th, 2018, 5:25 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: February 10th, 2018, 4:35 am
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Id pickup Forgotten King, wait for the 2nd edition.


April 13th, 2018, 7:20 pm
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Consul
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Depends on what this bundle actually contains, but short answer: NO.
Basically you can't use your 1st ed stuff if you plan to use it with the pending edition.

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April 14th, 2018, 9:17 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: June 10th, 2015, 6:05 am
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As others have said it really depends on what is included in this "bundle" and how much it costs.

As a parent who has been sat waiting for the new edition for a nearly a quarter of my son's life... I would say if your daughter is interested now and you think you guys would enjoy it... get whatever you can get your hands on. If you're going to make one single purchase to test the waters... then it realy doesn't matter which one it is bewteen first edition and forgotten king (IN MY OPINION). If the two of you love the game then you won't mind shelling out for FK or for Legends or 2.0 or whatever the heck eventually is on shelves. If the choice is "Buy first edition because it's what I can find" vs "Wait another year and lose my daughter's interest all together" then definitely do the first one. My little gaming buddy has all but lost interest because we've had to wait so long for new models at this point. We play every now and then because we love the game so much, but he's lost interest in defeating the kobolds for the 19th time etc.

I don't know your financial situation... so I don't know how much would be considered "a lot" but I have to say... first edition rules were fine, the models are great, the tiles are attractive... it's what my son and I fell in love with, so there's no reason why you and your daughter wouldn't have an excellent time with it... it's just you have to go into it knowing that if you want to continue purchasing... you will need to replace the cards etc as people have outlined.

I wouldn't normally post when I'm basically echoing other people's comments... but in this case I just wanted to emphatically say that playing this game with my son is the most fun we have ever had since he grew out of wanting to play with toys with me... First edition, and then the FK kickstarter were both worth every single penny to me and I will always cherish the memories of our games together. Hopefully when this current kickstarter is eventually fulfilled I can grab his attention again and we can recapture the magic, but who knows... If you have a chance to have a blast together with some old kit right now... go for it :-)

If you're a painter... the models in FK are MUCH nicer to my eye... they are larger and better proportioned with wider surfaces and more characterful sculpts.

Also worth mentioning is that if you pick up First Edition the models might require assembly with superglue. plastic/poly cement won't work on them. I'm not sure if you are looking at new or used games but it's something worth considering if you are new to the hobby. They are pretty easy to assemble but there are a few tricky customers like the boss, Starfire.


April 14th, 2018, 10:35 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: February 22nd, 2018, 6:28 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
for me, to print the arcade MMC/backpack, core cards, pet parade cards on nice card stock cost ~$50 (b/c i wanted free shipping) at staples. Other folks have been able to do it much cheaper for ~$20. So that's an added expense if you print, but it can also be a nice project if you want to do something together.


Semi-random question, I found card backs for the loot/treasures, but not for plot/challenge cards. Did you make your own or just leave backs blank and sleeve them?
Thanks!


May 8th, 2018, 3:54 pm
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Denizen
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I personally do not like sleeved cards b/c I feel it adds unnecessary bulk and makes it harder to shuffle, but I did want a uniform look for my decks that are combined FK/2.0.

I sleeved my loot and treasure cards and put the card stock in with the FK loot/treasure it replaces and for the ones I didn't have a corresponding card for I used a SDE 1.0 Loot/Treasure card.

I did not back the challenge or plot cards and left the back blank since these are completely 2.0 cards. You only have one plot per game (unless you use hard mode) so backing the Plot deck didn't make much sense.

For the challenges, you don't go through them very fast, either (especially if you mow through monsters like we do) so I didn't back them.

In a 3-4 hero match, we usually only get 5-6 challenges (boss spawns MMC8-9 or earlier) and then maybe 2-3 boss challenges.

Unlike HolyCross, I did not have a helpful Staples person and had to handcut all the cards myself, so handcutting that many cardbacks was too tedious for me.

Technically someone could take the PDF content and transfer it into a card printing software to appropriately print it double sided, which would make the most efficient use of the materials released, but SPM has said they don't intend to do this (but they also didn't say whether they'd block someone from doing it).


May 8th, 2018, 6:20 pm
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