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 Young Heroes? 
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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I recently had a go at the free-to-play game on Steam called Dungeon Defenders II. For those who do not know or remember, the heroes of the first game are kids. By the second game they have grown up. Seeing the heroes cxhange like that was really cool and got me thinking - what would the kid versions of our favourite SDE heroes look like? Super cute I bet.

Who else thinks that a set of the core heroes (and their gender swaps) as kids would be awesome? I’m talking plastic, with proper plastic scenic bases, of course - not overpriced resin with bland, flat bases like the latest releases, and of course after Kickstarter fulfilment.

I’ll add it to my wish list, along with Disgaea themed minis and a Clockwork Cove level box :p


March 13th, 2018, 1:10 am
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Mini-Boss
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I've said it before, but I really want a create a hero set. You would get a bunch of individual pieces like heads, torsos, and arms. You could combine the parts in many different ways to create any kind of hero you want! While ND might not make one of these, I'd love for someone else to.


March 13th, 2018, 2:24 am
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Denizen
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Joined: February 11th, 2014, 10:03 pm
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Location: Camp Pendleton, California
eternaldream wrote:
I've said it before, but I really want a create a hero set. You would get a bunch of individual pieces like heads, torsos, and arms. You could combine the parts in many different ways to create any kind of hero you want! While ND might not make one of these, I'd love for someone else to.


I'm actively working my own hero/villain line right now...


March 13th, 2018, 3:48 am
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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That would also be cool, but the advantage of “fixed” pose kits is theft they often look more dynamic. Look at KDM armour kits - they look good but the poses are often more static. More fun to build though, I grant you.

Kids figure wise I was thinking of the small Royal Paladin in a smock and a wooden sword :) or the Ember Mage sat on the floor, tounge between her teeth, struggling to create a small flame :)


March 13th, 2018, 10:04 am
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Denizen
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Joined: October 29th, 2012, 8:56 pm
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Given the heroes are already chibi, I wonder how much tougher it'd be to make young hero sculpts. I guess we'll see with the pets with characters like Hey Lissin or Lumi from the way of fighter crossover.

Like, to me, Princess Ruby already looks like a kid due to her original sculpt being smaller than the others.

I reckon what products SPM develops after SDE:L drops may depend in large part to the success of SDE:L. I would assume that they'd ideally have all their products work with classic, arcade, and legends and I'm struggling a bit to see what would 'work' to have the kids do classic/arcade unless it's a built in hardmode?

I think it's a fun idea, but maybe too narrow for SPM to work with and it may just be if you want something like this they'd expect you to mod/create it yourself.


March 13th, 2018, 2:37 pm
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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Very reasonable response Sleepy. Remember though, with Legends there is far greater scope for NPC models, so anything is possible :)

I lack the sculpting talent to make something like this myself, although I know a number of people on here would be more than capiable. If anyone fancies offering a sculpt service, you know where to find me ;)


March 13th, 2018, 2:56 pm
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Denizen
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I think there are a couple of services that offer print per design chibis. These are the two I'm aware of -- I've not used any myself. I don't think either have 'children sized' options yet, but I think this is maybe in line with the type of service you may be interested in.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/he ... llectibles

https://www.patreon.com/capsule

I personally prefer the SPM/SDE style, so that's what I'm sticking with.


March 13th, 2018, 3:33 pm
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Minion
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Honestly, I think that trying to make them look any younger would be a terrible idea.

They already look like early to mid teens, at the oldest. Making them even younger REALLY narrows the audience the product will appeal to. If Hasbro, with their multimillion dollar marketing campaigns, knows it's nigh impossible to successfully sell a game that represents "kiddie" characters or imagery for over $20, how on earth could SPM hope to turn a profit doing this for a game that runs $80+ before add-ons?

Not to mention the fact that it alienates a larger audience. Once you produce 'kiddie' content for a product line, most consumers begin to associate it with kids. Monopoly is a fantastic example, because despite being a long and tedious game, one tends to envision KIDS playing it unless something prompts them otherwise. Monopoly is Monopoly is no longer thought of as a thing for adults, because a version exists for kids. Unless a brand is STRONGLY established, we're talking decades of exposure, hundreds of products, etc, its almost impossible to overcome this hurdle. And even then, it's kind of a roll of the dice.

Super Dungeon Explore is arguably SPMs single most valuable property at this point, and I'd rather NOT see them roll the dice with it for something that would only appeal to such a small niche intersection on a Venn diagram of gamers.


March 31st, 2018, 10:05 am
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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Don’t really see how young versions of the heroes would make it a kids game. From a narrative point of view, especially with legends, they could be there to get rescued, be setting off to save their parents, helping round up pets or just set dressing.

It was just an idea that sounded cute, not a replacement for the current figures nor a change in direction for the company...

Shan’t bring it up again, I shall just sit quietly in my corner and not discuss fun ideas while waiting for my long overdue toys...

Financial speculation and bitterness is apparently more appealing.


March 31st, 2018, 11:48 pm
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Minion
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
Super Dungeon Explore is arguably SPMs single most valuable property at this point, and I'd rather NOT see them roll the dice with it for something that would only appeal to such a small niche intersection on a Venn diagram of gamers.

Gotta agree with this. While I doubt SPM are as bad off as some are claiming, they are better off making releases that have the broadest appeal for when 2.0/Arcade launch. Alt-pose models of existing characters wont be a big draw for people when there are Warbands/Level Packs/Bosses to pick up that have more impact on their game.

I would like to see Hero packs, of about 5-6 Heroes in a box as opposed to single releases (better sell through than individuals too I would wager). But if they are going to do it and "I’m talking plastic, with proper plastic scenic bases, of course - not overpriced resin with bland, flat bases" then would like to see more of the world and its inhabitants explored than retreads of existing characters (would the kid versions use the existing Hero cards, or new ones...because wouldn't they be weaker Heroes as less trained/developed?)

If they are going to make more plastic Heroes (either for SDE or Legends), lemme see Celestial warriors and sorcerers, Freyjan kitty-knights, that Centaur cleric, Dwarf mages and rangers, Arcadian desert warriors and sand-shapers, some steampunk equipped Gnomes out of Clockwork Cove!


April 1st, 2018, 12:07 am
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Minion

Joined: April 16th, 2015, 8:22 am
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I think we all want those Danteire. A fuller, fleshed our world can only be a good thing.

I do kinda hope they do start a more regular, small release turnaround. A Clawtribe shaman and clawtribe spesr hunter with some tundra theamed things to hunt (like a mammoth with dire beavers and wolverines), a mummy’s tomb with Anubian warriors and scarabs, a ghost pirate ship crew or merlock/kuatoa/fishmen with sea monster! New tile packs would be great too.

Seeing as legends is going down the route of race and job, I’d even like to see the box set with a mix of jobs for a specific race - a mixed gender box of dwarves of different classes, or the same with riftlings or frayjans!

(As an aside, I hadn’t given it much thought, but I would have suspected the kid cards could come with slightly reduced power heroes, so people could almost use them to play hard mode - some people enjoy Ironman+hardcore+nightmare difficulty runs, so it’s just more options for people to use).


April 1st, 2018, 12:27 am
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Mini-Boss
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I remember the first level box for Caverns of Roxor, and how small the Deeproot Scout and Princess Ruby looked compared to the other Heroes. The Star Guild Sapper got handwaved for this, cause he was a Dwarf. I still like to headcannon the first Scout as a kid elf.

And maybe kid minis dont have to beHeroes. NPC kids are a staple to lots of tabletop RPG's and there are very few minis for NPC's in general.


April 2nd, 2018, 2:20 am
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Denizen
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Actually, I had maybe a good idea for this.

I agree /w Goli - it'd be cool to have a series of hero models that show a hero progressing, e.g. Legends Class C to XS. They're doing the art for this (supposedly) and doing this for the gear. I think Warhammer kind of had this in their model lines where the grunts > captains > heroes got more and more elaborate. I don't expect SPM to get to this level b/c I don't think there's a market/support for this yet (maybe ever). But if you look at it from a hobby/miniature standpoint, there may be folks that want the minis only and care less about the game. The question is how to make it profitable and not a cost/burden on the existing game.

Anyways, the models don't necessarily have to be kids/children, per se, but that was something I also agree was cool about Dungeon Defenders II is that they made it feel like a sequel with the same characters that also got facelifts instead of just a repackage with more different heroes.

I think we can also agree that this audience/market for this may be tough on its own b/c 1) Legends doesn't officially exist as a retail product and 2) how they gonna make the $$$.

What if the young heroes were PETS? Like squires/rangers in training? They could even have multiple sculpts/cards to show the difference b/w a C level hero and A level hero and cost the appropriate amount of loot to summon to balance them.

WHAT IF BABY KOBOLDS WERE CREEPS?!!?!! There is already a baby turtle that's a hero pet coming. The lava whirl baby flame gels and sorrows are already 'baby'ish' versions of the big flame gels.

It would not require a new ruleset, can be used in classic and arcade, and legends you can do whatever you want. Only PVP arena doesn't have rules for pets/creeps i think.

Anyways, I think if SPM were going to do something along these lines, Pet Parade or an expansion to Pet Parade may be the logical venue to explore.


April 2nd, 2018, 3:02 am
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Minion
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I think seeing more frequent small releases would be good. Honestly, I wouldn't blame SPM if they reworked things to get so.e of the new warbands pushed through assembly lines first -they're faster to produce (having far fewer components) and while they wouldn't bring in NEW customers, they would reinvigorate existing customers with the first of new content. They might also make Arena an easier sell, since those warbands could be used with it. I know it isn't ideal for those who don't yet have a core box, but at least this way we'd start getting something in hand.

I'm not against character growth and profession, I'm just not sure how well that will work visually without significant components. Whether it's by replacing one's miniature with a new mini that is now more appropriate, or some kind of psuedo-interchangeable bits... It's hard to make something that could be this small and still be customizable without incurring some hefty added cost for the end users.

I don't know how many people in this particular discussion are painters, but that's one concern that comes to mind: How quickly would players be leveling up or changing their characters? How much extra work would it be to paint the potential extra miniatures or components? If they made semi-modular minis (like Kingdom Death Monster did), it would almost be more complicated because there are a number of wildly different skin colors across characters in this franchise. A staff held by a pale caucasian hand probably wouldn't look right affixed to the arm of a purple rogue or perhaps a green shaman. I suppose you could try to make it look like every item is being held by gloves, and everyone wears the same colored gloves...? Yeah, no, that's just weird.

What if we focused less on the miniatures, and perhaps more on the card artwork? The card artwork tends to show a lot more detail, and is fairly cheap to produce by comparison -what if they worked the card art to better reflect the development and growth of characters as they took on classes and perhaps some form of 'rank' within a class? It could perhaps be a bit like ye olde Final Fantasy 'Job' system, which alters your character's appearance immediately. Perhaps when you rank up in a particular job, you could flip the card over to see additional abilities, higher stats, and artwork that reflects a more developed and mastered character? I imagine that if there aren't too many combinations of races and jobs/classes, they could produce a set of these to cover everything we currently have pretty cost-effectively. Maybe even two cards per race/class combo, so that players could have four 'ranks' within each.

I'm not saying anything of this to be a nay-sayer, I'm actually curious as to what sort of ideas or workarounds our creative types here might have for the challenge.


April 9th, 2018, 1:08 pm
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