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 Rumor at a Con about SPM, 
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Denizen
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So I was at CaptainCon over the weekend and one of the vendors had a ton of SDE stuff on sale for 40% off. I turned to the person and said "wow, that's crazy, where were you before I bought everything in the product line?"

To which said person hit me with the following: "We are a partnered store with them and work very closely with SPM. They are currently running out of money and will be closing their doors in the next Six months, so Im trying to dump all their product before that happens."


So, the reason I post this here is for someone from SPM to weigh in on this. Was it someone just trying to stir the pot, or should we ALL just get refunds on Legends at this point. Because if you go out of business I don't want to lose my 300 dollars. With other posts talking about the same concerns of lack of updates, news, or new product really being released, what is your statement on this?

I am more inclined to believe this person was full of !SODA! rather than telling the truth. But please weigh in at your convenience so us end users know what is going on, thanks.

-DsDrew


February 5th, 2018, 4:01 pm
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Denizen
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That seems like a load of old poop.


February 5th, 2018, 4:41 pm
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Denizen
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Very disturbing if true. I’d take it with a grain of salt.


February 5th, 2018, 4:45 pm
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Mini-Boss
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It's time to the company openly talk if this is the truth or more negative speculation without reason beyond the delay. Like many of backers already requested refund I going to insert mine also and pray to receive the money back if the bankruptcy is the truth and never we going to see the tangible content of Legends' campaign. It let me to think the Sweetheart Candy is a trap to catch money before last breath of the company to pay the employees.
Way of the Fighter was underfunded just to recall, because they unlocked all SG without reach the requested amount of money during the campaign to did it.

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Last edited by Nephastus on February 5th, 2018, 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.



February 5th, 2018, 5:37 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Nephastus wrote:
It's time to the company openly talk if this is the truth or more negative speculation without reason beyond the delay. Like many of backers already requested refund I going to insert mine also and pray to receive the money back if the bankruptcy is the truth and never we going to see the tangible content of Legends' campaign. It let me to think the Sweetheart Candy is a trap to catch money before last breath of the company to pay the employees.
Way of the Fighter was underfunded just to recall, because they unlocked all SG without reach the requested amount of money during the campaign to did it.




I agree that the company should confirm or deny this rumour, but I think it is wrong to jump to new "conclusions" about things like the Sweetheart Candy. I for one am going to continue waiting patiently for the Kickstarter that I have paid for and not jump onto the Chicken Little bandwagon.

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February 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm
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At least the company could put available to backers the STL files of all presented sculps before close the doors. All we got from this campaign until now is digital anyway...

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February 5th, 2018, 5:56 pm
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Nephastus wrote:

At least the company could put available to backers the STL files of all presented sculps before close the doors. All we got from this campaign until now is digital anyway...


Again, you are saying things like "before they close the doors". You haven't even waited for them to confirm that this is happening! Stop fueling the rumour before they have had a chance to confirm or deny the truth of it.

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February 5th, 2018, 6:11 pm
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Spazzfist wrote:
Nephastus wrote:
It's time to the company openly talk if this is the truth or more negative speculation without reason beyond the delay. Like many of backers already requested refund I going to insert mine also and pray to receive the money back if the bankruptcy is the truth and never we going to see the tangible content of Legends' campaign. It let me to think the Sweetheart Candy is a trap to catch money before last breath of the company to pay the employees.
Way of the Fighter was underfunded just to recall, because they unlocked all SG without reach the requested amount of money during the campaign to did it.




I agree that the company should confirm or deny this rumour, but I think it is wrong to jump to new "conclusions" about things like the Sweetheart Candy. I for one am going to continue waiting patiently for the Kickstarter that I have paid for and not jump onto the Chicken Little bandwagon.


Good Analogy. Seems like a lot of people are convinced that the sky is falling. SPM reducing their prices for a mass inventory blowout would be a more compelling sign. I plan to stay the course. That said, they are losing fans & backers for every update that gives us a palette swap for existing models, but no production update.


February 5th, 2018, 6:32 pm
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I do not believe those rumors. I am quite sure that they will deliver all Kickstarters. I cant imagine that Paizo didnt check their financial status when they partnered with SPM/ND and the prices for the pledges of Starfinder seem to leave enough margin to have a lot profit from that left.

However, I can imagine that they might had and possibly still have a liquidity problem and are therefore really cautious about their next steps. But liquidity problems doesnt mean they are close to bankruptcy. I dont believe that they suffer from an accounting insolvency, I guess with all their goods and licenses they own, they are still a financially considered healthy company. The problem might just be the liquidity.

But maybe we are complete mistaken with those assumptions and the simply have an internal problem with some shareholders or maybe the chinese factory has severe problems and they have a hard time to get out of a deal or have to wait something out. Those problems would also be problems they would not make public.

So to panic now doesnt make it better. In case they really go bankrupt soon, it doesnt matter for us to ask for a refund, no one would see any money. Our best chance would then be to sit it out, it is less costy for SPM/ND to complete the kickstarter than to refund all or even some, because the game design is close to complete.

And one more thing about that rumor. If that would be true, they wouldnt tell it even to their partners. And to predict bankruptcy in six month sounds to me plain stupid, because if that happens, companies usually die pretty fast. When I check miniature market for example I recognize they already offer Way of the fighter and soon they will seel it as well. So there will come money in again.


February 5th, 2018, 6:54 pm
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Does america not have a service similar to Companies House in the UK?

If so it would be very easy to check if this is true


February 5th, 2018, 10:32 pm
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Mini-Boss
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That's disturbing... but still... grain of salt. Still, it would be nice for ND to post something about all the backers' fears in the updates. I know they had a few very well thought out apologies before. They don't have to lay out all their financial info, but at least ease the backers' fears about them not getting their product.


February 6th, 2018, 1:44 am
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What about a scenario where SPM folds, but ND continues? How separate are the two entities, legally/financially?

The Starfinder licenses are held by ND, not SPM. That's why the campaign was started using a completely different KS account (makes perfect legal sense despite looking suspiciously like an effort to distance themselves from the KS debacles under the SPM name).

Could that happen? SPM declares bankruptcy, the debts and obligations held under that name are defaulted upon, ND buys out their intellectual property for a song and dons a pair of sunglasses while calmly walking away from the explosions behind them?

What happens to the KS backers then? Almost certainly we'd be out of luck, our 'contract' being with the entity known as SPM. Conceivably, the entity known as ND could then publish Legends without KS backers ever receiving anything. The question would be whether ND calculated the PR hit would be worth the savings of not voluntarily honouring SPM's KS obligations.


February 6th, 2018, 3:25 am
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You know what, it is interesting that the recent Starfinder Kickstarter was not Soda Pop Miniatures. From what I understand, SPM is the design studio, while ND is the publisher. So I guess the actual designers aren't part of SPM? I don't know.

I did some digging on this rumor though. One of the main distributers of the game is Foam Brain Games. They have been the ones retailing Super Dungeon at conventions. I contacted them on Facebook to ask about this. They said that perhaps the reason the merchandise was heavily discounted is because its base game is like 3 years old and about to be outdated by the newer one. They assured me that nobody from their booths would say something like that, or would even have that kind of knowledge. Maybe it was another smaller retailer then? Who knows.


February 6th, 2018, 3:48 am
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Denizen
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eternaldream wrote:
They assured me that nobody from their booths would say something like that, or would even have that kind of knowledge. Maybe it was another smaller retailer then? Who knows.


I wouldn't put it past someone with a bunch of about-to-be-obsolete merchandise to lie and say the company is going out of business, rather than be honest and say "yeah this stuff will all be obsolete soon, so buy up"


February 6th, 2018, 4:16 am
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Hey All;

Not trying to cause panic.

It was something that a vendor said at a con which is why I choose not to believe it, but figured I would bring it up here so that SPM could weigh on it and properly defend themselves against such an allegation.

I for one do not believe they will be going out of business soon with all the projects they are not developing and are just co-signed to produce for. Their games are good games, and games that are far worse are still in business.

So I did not mean to start a thread that would take a dark downward spiral, more of, Hey this is what the word on the street is, can someone set it straight?

Anyway, I don't believe its true, I think its just a nerd who owns a nerd store trying to act like they are a nerd with an inside scoop that no other nerd has ever nerded before. Convention people/vendors are sometimes just mutants who like to act like they know everything. So this could just be her trying to be the "Know it all vendor"

Anyway, cheers and I hope SPM can weigh on this.

-Drew


February 6th, 2018, 1:21 pm
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Oh hey, this was posted in another thread, but thought I'd put it here too. It's on the Chibi Gamers Facebook group. It's from John Cadice himself.

"I'm here guys, We have been working through our log jam of projects. Needed to move the projects out that we could, as the SDE product got way out of hand in terms of size and complexity. Good news is, and i don't want to speak over my marketing guys, but we are moving very soon now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered. You guys have been so patient, and we want the best SDE for you. We are ramping up a ton of never before seen minis, monsters and heroes to herald the coming of the 1st wave. Rumors of our demise had been horrible to watch in some of the more bitter posts, we are a small team, carefully chewing before swallowing right now to do this right. We want this edition of SDE to be the core you play and bring people to for the next 5+ years"


February 7th, 2018, 1:01 am
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John Cadice himself wrote:
now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered.

Eeh... Has people around the world received their WotF SDE chibi miniatures???

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February 7th, 2018, 8:26 am
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Goblin-King wrote:
John Cadice himself wrote:
now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered.

Eeh... Has people around the world received their WotF SDE chibi miniatures???


I still haven't received my Way of the Fist set, despite being told all orders had been fully delivered! :cry:


February 7th, 2018, 10:30 am
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personally, I don't hold much stock in this.. if you believed every rumour at a con then you would be laying down with a strong conviction that the world really ended in 1974.

but as to the question of American company house.. America is basically (if we define American as the united states of America, which is only part of northern America) a collection of countries like the old USSR or European union. So it's very loosely defined in terms of keeping track of stuff.. however, there are SOME kinda state level databases..

So, after a bit of search I have found:
Soda Pop Miniatures LLC, registered location Issaquah, WA, United States. Classed as a Manufacturing industry, nec, nsk. Esitmated Revenue $0.182 Million. Credit rating of Medium (Moderate to low risk of failure)..
the slightly confusing stuff on Soda pop is they are Administratively dissolved in 2014, Registered Agent was John Cadice, with Governors being Christopher Birkenhagen, John Cadice and Dietrich Stella.
If you search via the Publishing arm (Ninja Divison LLC) they were administratively dissolved in 2016 (created in 2012) registered Agent Rosen Lewis PLLC, Governers being Cipher Studios LLC and Soda Po Miniatures LLC.

Administratively dissolved just means (when its an LLC) is that the state has taken away some rights and powers of them due to the entities failure to comply with business entity statue. Basically, the admins/lawyer didn't do there job right. It is a pretty bad thing, often companies that have gotten a bit lax with there lawyers don't notice and keep trading. And it turns out if they try to do something like fine investors, file documents, File a lawsuit, enter into a merger or asset sale, they can't. the most common reasons for this happening are failing to pay various taxes within required period, failing to file annual report in the required period or failing to maintain a registered agent or office for a require period. So again, there admin/lawyer screwed up a bit. Sometimes is the accountant cause a small LLC believed (wrongly) that they didn't need to pay franchise taxes or state income tax.

It's an iffy thing but not really a full danger sign.. but if they are STILL in that state and don't know it, they should look into it and deal with it ASAP.. if they DO know about it but choose do to nothing, Oh dear.. that comes under intentional failture to comply.. and is a sign that the admin/lawyers or maybe accountants need to get there arses kicked hard and get out of it else they are gonna have one HELL of a problem as after a few years, the company does NOT exist and the people in charge (or atleast are held liable) will have one hell of a debt and fines to pay.

Checking was done with the Washington Secretary of State website with general information from the white paper by Wolters Kluwer Corporate Legal Services.

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February 7th, 2018, 12:22 pm
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Minion
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Goblin-King wrote:
John Cadice himself wrote:
now that Rail Raiders and Way of the Fighter are fully delivered.

Eeh... Has people around the world received their WotF SDE chibi miniatures???


This is what upsets me the most. The actual words directly from those that work at SPM/ND is not accurate. I am not sure if it was intentionally misleading or unintentional poor communication skills. Either one reflects poorly.

The actual game of Way of the Fighter appears to be shipped to everyone for the most part (with some backers still have not received them). But the miniature master versions are still being made (looking at the most recent update).


February 7th, 2018, 4:16 pm
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