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 Playtesting Super Dungeon Arcade 2.0 
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Mini-Boss
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Usagi wrote:
Spazzfist wrote:
Holy Cross wrote:
I look forward to your feedback. Did you print out the dashboards and cards too? (Mighty monster , plot, challenge, boss fight etc)


I did the rules, MMC and backpack. Did not see plot cards, challenge cards, etc.

EDIT - I found them now. Do they add a lot to the game?


they are very much central to the function of arcade and making a game a replayable experience. Soooo...yes :P


Hmm.. maybe I will find a way to randomize them for now and then use them from my computer. Will print them another day.

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February 18th, 2018, 9:25 pm
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Denizen
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So by Tuesday I should have my 9th playthrough posted. The party has descended Dragonback Peaks into the Glauerdoom Moors, seeking repose in the grounds of a silent manor... -_-

I'll be implementing the "Hard Mode" cards in upcoming playthroughs.

Image


Also, I'll be tracking the party's movement through Crystalia (and possibly drum up campaign ideas) with this laminated Crystalia map:

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More to come soon...


February 19th, 2018, 6:29 am
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Denizen
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Map progress


February 19th, 2018, 9:09 am
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Mini-Boss
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You know what I'd like to see? A 16 bit rendition of Crystalia's world map. Something to make me think of games like Final Fantasy and the like. How cool would that be? Have little areas like towns and dungeons marked on it? That would be a neat addition.


February 19th, 2018, 11:54 pm
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Denizen
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That map progress is fantastic. And I love the idea of a 16 bit version of that map.

Ooh! Or an electronic version that you could update on your phone or tablet as you 'explore' the world on your kitchen table!


February 20th, 2018, 12:10 am
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Denizen
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eternaldream wrote:
You know what I'd like to see? A 16 bit rendition of Crystalia's world map. Something to make me think of games like Final Fantasy and the like. How cool would that be? Have little areas like towns and dungeons marked on it? That would be a neat addition.


That would be amazing! There has to be an online app for this!

InfinityMax wrote:
That map progress is fantastic. And I love the idea of a 16 bit version of that map.

Ooh! Or an electronic version that you could update on your phone or tablet as you 'explore' the world on your kitchen table!


Thanks! :D
And yes a tablet/phone app world map of Crystalia would be amazing! I’d love an old parchment style map personally.


February 20th, 2018, 1:12 am
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Mini-Boss
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So I finally got around to finishing the game which I started yesterday. It was a three hero game (Druid, Celestial Herald and Arena Champion) on the hero side, and for the Consul I chose Starfire as the dungeon boss, Iron Golem as the mini-boss and the spawn points were the Egg Clutch and the Claw Shrines.

I will fully admit, that even after setting up I looked at all the parts and I had to force myself to continue to play. It just seemed to similar to the previous betas which had failed to capture the interest of myself or my gaming group. But I will say upfront that I persevered and am glad that I did. I am happy to say that I think that the game is actually quite good, and it will be nice to be able to introduce others to a game without having to give them a caveat of having to play by a different set of rules in order to make it playable (in my opinion, of course).

I acknowledge that I made a few mistakes through the play of it, in the favour of both the consul and the heroes, so hopefully it balanced out! It was interesting to see how the strategies and "opening moves" which I was so used to playing in SDE suddenly changed. Instead of focusing on killing the first spawn point ASAP, I focused on killing minions to weaken the retaliation and to start earning some loot.

I managed to time it so that I killed the first and second spawn points right before the spawning on the MMC, and then realized that this brought out the mini-boss - right behind the druid. Oops!

There was one helluva brouhaha on the second tile, with the majority of the focus being on the Iron Golem. Once he was down, then it was crowd control and moving forward to deal with the final spawn point and dealing with the idols of Rage which had appeared based on a Challenge card.

Overall, the game was good. I had to be a bit creative with the cards as I did not print them off. Basically, I just kept my laptop handy and when a card was required, I would look up the file and then take whatever was the first card available on the file.

I missed the creeps, which make no appearance (that I saw) and I thought I would miss the Explore cards, but with the challenge cards, I found that they did the same kind of job.

A couple of questions:
-All of the challenge cards have fluff text about the Midnight Tower. Are they meant for all decks (all bosses)?
-Does the dungeon boss only use their unique attacks when indicated on the challenge cards?

So, I will print off the cards tomorrow and then will post again when I get a chance to replay.

Thanks Holycross for being the torch to light the way! I probably would not have tried this, were it not for your insistence that the rules were good. :)

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February 20th, 2018, 3:02 am
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Ninja Corps
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I'm speculating here, but it sounds like you may not have changed to the boss challenge deck when the boss appeared? I could be wrong. But, if you didn't, there's a separate deck for after the boss appears. If the boss has a unique (non signature) attack, it uses it when indicated, just like any other monster would, though.

Also, creeps only show up from pet parade plot cards. So, if you weren't using pet parade anything, creeps won't appear in the game outside of appropriate bosses.


February 20th, 2018, 4:56 am
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Usagi wrote:
I'm speculating here, but it sounds like you may not have changed to the boss challenge deck when the boss appeared? I could be wrong. But, if you didn't, there's a separate deck for after the boss appears. If the boss has a unique (non signature) attack, it uses it when indicated, just like any other monster would, though.

Also, creeps only show up from pet parade plot cards. So, if you weren't using pet parade anything, creeps won't appear in the game outside of appropriate bosses.


I did use the Boss Challenge cards, for example the Iron Golem came back with "Just a Scratch" and Starfire attacked the party with a unique action that they had to defend with their Will stat.

I was never a big player of the arcade mode, so can you please clarify for me what exactly is meant by "unique (non signature) attack"?

Thanks

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February 20th, 2018, 1:27 pm
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Spazzfist wrote:
Usagi wrote:
I'm speculating here, but it sounds like you may not have changed to the boss challenge deck when the boss appeared? I could be wrong. But, if you didn't, there's a separate deck for after the boss appears. If the boss has a unique (non signature) attack, it uses it when indicated, just like any other monster would, though.

Also, creeps only show up from pet parade plot cards. So, if you weren't using pet parade anything, creeps won't appear in the game outside of appropriate bosses.


I did use the Boss Challenge cards, for example the Iron Golem came back with "Just a Scratch" and Starfire attacked the party with a unique action that they had to defend with their Will stat.

I was never a big player of the arcade mode, so can you please clarify for me what exactly is meant by "unique (non signature) attack"?

Thanks


Anything with a blue/red button is ‘unique’ and the unique command prompt has to come up (either via mighty monster chart or boss fight challenge card) in for it to be performed.

‘Signature’ refers to the actions with a skull logo. Those are always performed either immediately after moving, or just immediately (if there is no move command.)


February 20th, 2018, 1:43 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Holy Cross wrote:
Anything with a blue/red button is ‘unique’ and the unique command prompt has to come up (either via mighty monster chart or boss fight challenge card) in for it to be performed.

‘Signature’ refers to the actions with a skull logo. Those are always performed either immediately after moving, or just immediately (if there is no move command.)



Cool, thanks. That would have made Starfire a whole lot tougher! ;)

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February 20th, 2018, 2:10 pm
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So it would seem that @Holy Cross feels that this current rules iteration is the best Arcade mode SPM has produced, which is very encouraging.

For others here who have done a few playthroughs, I'm curious to hear comparisons between this and the 1.5 rules from Forgotten King. Would anyone be willing to break it down by category? I feel like these would probably be the most useful areas for a lot of us to know about...

-Setup Time - How quickly will one be ready to play, from the moment they pull out the box?
-Game Length - How long does a game take?
-Complexity - How well does the game flow? Does it feel like there are a lot of mechanics to keep track of?
-Difficulty - I'm hearing 'brutal', but that can be a bit subjective... Perhaps someone could provide comparisons to some other miniatures board games?
-Table Space - With what sound like some extra components required for Arcade mode, how much flat real estate am I going to need on my table?
-'Fun' Factor - Probably the most subjective; but for those who have gotten through a few games, how enjoyable is this latest version compared to it's predecessor?


Any info is of course VERY much appreciated. I'm hoping things are an improvement all around, but I recognize that there may be pro/con trade-offs, as with many things.


February 20th, 2018, 2:51 pm
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Setup Time - Even with good organization, I would say that this one is going to take a while to set up (this will be made longer with a larger collection of models to choose from)
Game Length - WAY quicker than the FK rules. I would say 1.5-2 hours
Complexity - There are a lot of moving parts in this from the Mighty Monster Chart to different decks of cards, to hero movement and Consul movement and remembering all of the rules of what will trigger what to happen, etc.
Difficulty - I cannot speak to this one yet. It seems tough, but it is certainly feels like a different challenge from what was presented before.
Table Space - this has a big footprint - boards, hero cards, monster cards, treasure/loot decks
plot deck, backpack, MMC - there is a lot on the table
'Fun' Factor - The best rules that have been officially put out by Sodapop. By a longshot.

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February 20th, 2018, 3:55 pm
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Setup time has gotten fairly quick for me. Less than 10 minutes with monsters pre selected/staged.

Game length falls right around 2 hours.

Complexity. Your first play through will be a learning curve. I missed more than a couple of rules. By the third play through I was moving along smoothly.

Difficulty depends on your party. I found that heroes with cheap AoE make it easier (eg. Hearthsworn Fighter’s Cleave Attack) There are also six “hard mode” cards that can be added to ramp it up and 6 easy mode cards to help the heroes.

If you go back to the earlier pages on this thread I’ve posted pics of the table space it requires. It fits my 2x4 foot coffee table with the right space management. It uses the entire space though.

It’s definitely the most fun. I know I’ve said it a lot. It accomplishes this by the following ways:
-Time: it takes just the right amount of time to play.
-Tension: the game will typically keep the heroes on their toes. Challenged until the end of a game they may not win. Poor decisions are unforgiving and will quickly see the heroes overwhelmed.
-Consistency: Fast paced from beginning to end. Each encounter/wave of monsters feels relevant and threatening. Loot remains important and valuable until the end.

I’ll probably be playing today, in a Von Drakk Manor theme/setting. I’ll post pics/highlights by this evening.


February 20th, 2018, 5:36 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Where do you guys put the plot and challenge card that is currently active? Is the active challenge just whatever's on the top of the discard? How quickly do y'all typically take to resolve the plot (or do y'all feel it's not necessary b/f fighting the dungeon boss?). I was thinking the MMC or backpack could probably have a slot/space devoted to at least the plot card?

I'm only a little sad that creeps are no longer part of base Arcade. On one hand, tons of cute models. On the other hand, they were always insignificant and we hated wasting actions killing things that didn't drop loot. I haven't read through the new pet parade rules to see how this was addressed b/c I would expect the extra actions granted by a pet wouldn't necessarily make up for additional models to fight.


February 21st, 2018, 12:05 am
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I typically place the active challenge card on top of the challenge deck face up and the plot card far right on the Mighty Monster Chart. I always try to resolve plot cards quickly. They can be very punishing. Forgotten by the Goddess (heroes can’t heal) in particular -_-


February 21st, 2018, 1:43 am
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Here are my highlights from game #9. First the things I did differently, and my observations since descending from Dragonback Peaks:

-Having benched the Hearthsworn Fighter, I brought the Netherstrider Assassin into the party. (an ally of convenience, who wants to raid Von Drakk's treasure after being thwarted by the heroes outside King Starfire's treasure chamber) Too many AoE characters had made the game a bit easy. I'll be running the 'Balanced Party' +Kaelly next game.

-I used the Arena loot and treasure decks. These added an interesting spin on how the heroes 'leveled up'. I'm going back to the Forgotten King Loot/Treasure decks for the next game. Some of the cards felt a bit too powerful. (see the following pics)

-Including the Salt Pillar spawn point made loot and treasure easy to farm. (Sorrows being 1 wound, 0 armor elites). I'll be switching them out next game.

-I added a Hard-Mode card to the mix. It added a welcome extra challenge to the game. I'll be running two Hard-Mode cards next game.

-By the end I was down to my last Princess Coin, so the game was still very challenging.

Image
Board setup.

Image
Hard Mode Card.

Image
Plot Card.

Image
First tile is the toughest.

Image
The Death Spectre appears.

Image
After a long fought battle (and a hero lost) Kaelly defeats the Death Spectre.

Image
With one Princess Coin remaining, the heroes are able to defeat Von Drakk, with Ember Mage striking the final blow.

Image
Everything but the War Paws seems thematically fitting...

Image
Powerful loadout for the Glimmerdusk Ranger.

Image
The Ember Mage is loaded with red dice.

Image
I love Challenger's Moxy! Should Kaelly be this tanky though?


February 21st, 2018, 6:22 am
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I will never get over Nocturne just constantly dabbing. That shapeshifter is in eternal "touchdown Panthers" mode.

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February 21st, 2018, 7:57 am
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Minion
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
I'm only a little sad that creeps are no longer part of base Arcade. On one hand, tons of cute models. On the other hand, they were always insignificant and we hated wasting actions killing things that didn't drop loot. I haven't read through the new pet parade rules to see how this was addressed b/c I would expect the extra actions granted by a pet wouldn't necessarily make up for additional models to fight.


Wait, creeps aren't a part of the Arcade mode at all now? Like not even in the box? That IS a bit of a bummer, I particularly loved the squirrels in FK and the creeps included with Goro. The rest were all pretty cool/cute too. Are they only usable in Pet Parade now? Seems like a shame not to use them at all in Arcade now, as I'm understanding it?


Holy Cross wrote:
Here are my highlights from game #9. First the things I did differently, and my observations since descending from Dragonback Peaks:

-Having benched the Hearthsworn Fighter, I brought the Netherstrider Assassin into the party. (an ally of convenience, who wants to raid Von Drakk's treasure after being thwarted by the heroes outside King Starfire's treasure chamber) Too many AoE characters had made the game a bit easy. I'll be running the 'Balanced Party' +Kaelly next game.

-I used the Arena loot and treasure decks. These added an interesting spin on how the heroes 'leveled up'. I'm going back to the Forgotten King Loot/Treasure decks for the next game. Some of the cards felt a bit too powerful. (see the following pics)

-Including the Salt Pillar spawn point made loot and treasure easy to farm. (Sorrows being 1 wound, 0 armor elites). I'll be switching them out next game.

-I added a Hard-Mode card to the mix. It added a welcome extra challenge to the game. I'll be running two Hard-Mode cards next game.

-By the end I was down to my last Princess Coin, so the game was still very challenging.




I just want to say, I really appreciate the detailed notes and photos you include in your write-ups. It gives so much better an idea of what to expect -especially where you got a snapshot of the table overall. I was a bit concerned, because my table is just BARELY big enough for X-Wing, and admittedly a bit too small for Armada (owned it for 2+ years and haven't had an opportunity to play), so it's nice to see that it should actually still be a pretty reasonable size.

Also, it's nice seeing how other people's miniatures look painted... I'm still very new to painting, having just finished slogging through the painful mistake of prepping and priming the entire 1.0 core box before realizing that it would be a year long daunting task to finish painting the things. Everyone's look so different, whether they kept the art style from the cards, or diverged a little/lot, it's just cool to see.

I'm going to look at implementing my digital solution for the 2.0 cards, possibly the Mighty Monster Chart as well. That would let me use a lot less table space. Seems that having a turn/stage tracker might even be good too, a "high-level turn checklist" of sorts like one might see printed onto a few standard cards in some games.

Assuming I get the time to put that all together, and try it out this weekend, I'll make a point to post something similar here for others who might still be curious.

Thanks again!


February 21st, 2018, 1:06 pm
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Mini-Boss
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:

Wait, creeps aren't a part of the Arcade mode at all now? Like not even in the box? That IS a bit of a bummer, I particularly loved the squirrels in FK and the creeps included with Goro. The rest were all pretty cool/cute too. Are they only usable in Pet Parade now? Seems like a shame not to use them at all in Arcade now, as I'm understanding it?

Pets and creeps rules are only in pet parade, but pet parade adds them to both Classic and Arcade.


February 21st, 2018, 1:30 pm
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