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 Playtesting Super Dungeon Arcade 2.0 
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Denizen
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Great battle report @Sleepy Laughter! The pics really bring it to life and it’s great to see the Tusk Raider in action!

Also thanks for keeping this thread alive! I have had my face in the books writing my Legends campaign and haven’t had time to play Arcade. Do you mind if I link your report to Chibi Gamers?

I’ll take a closer look at your rules questions/concerns more closely tonight.


March 20th, 2018, 4:08 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Thanks. It's a lot more work to remember to take pictures, but I agree, it means a lot less writing, which was nice!

I'm looking forward to your work on your Legends campaign. I played another Arcade with my wife last night at normal difficulty and unfortunately she confirmed she absolutely hates Arcade 2.0 compared to FK. She doesn't like the Plot, Challenge, the MMC timer, Boo Booties, and the expectation that heroes will die as part of the base difficulty. She vastly preferred FK farming on tile 1 and then slogging through the rest of the points & killing the boss /w OP equipment....but it's been so long since we played FK, I think she also forgot how long it took to play and how uninteresting it was b/w Tile 1 and fighting the boss. She also said the game still feels very fiddly compared to a video game and she's rather do 'the same thing' in a video game b/c she felt we'd spend less time counting beans/counters. I don't disagree with this, since it's a common criticism of board games compared to their digital counterparts, but I'm also the one taking on all the 'work' of knowing the rules, meta, and gameplay mechanics while she just rolls dice and moves her models. I think Arcade is much less engaging unless you take part in managing the mobs and understand how all the parts fit together since in essence, each turn is a 'puzzle' to solve with the available heroes/actions in play.

Also, for some reason, except on my solo playthroughs, we've always been DEX starved, which makes her upset that her Glimmerdusk Ranger is not as tricked out as she usually is. I did review the loot and treasure decks compared to FK and there are a few more loot/treasure items in the decks, but it's the same makeup, and we ARE chunking through half the loot deck and seeing a significant number of treasure items so it's just really bad luck of the draw.

I'm going to consider to see how a playthrough WITHOUT Challenge, Plot, discard Boo Booties, and have her use a Pet maybe instead of a second hero (or maybe make her use a her that can control mobs into position for Sparkleburst) will do if I can convince her to give me the time. I had the the Outcast Succubus, but the positioning in the game was horrible, so I could never use her to Pull mobs into range of Sparkleburst and definitely not a typical experience. I'll have to remember to houserule tile selection and just stupid stuff out during my playthroughs with other people since my priority is fun rather than following the rules to a tee.

And yes, you can share the report to Chibi Gamers. Some of those folks are scary opinionated about SDE stuff so I'll mostly stick to lurking on that group.


Last edited by sleepy_laughter on March 21st, 2018, 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.



March 20th, 2018, 7:37 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Played another co-op tonight -- no pictures and probably no battle report since the game actually played relatively smoothly.

Rules questions that came up, though:
1) Can you Push/Pull/Compel Spawn Points? We had the Wards of Protection Plot and since I could not find a rule that prevented you from moving the spawn point, so we just pushed the spawn away from the protection crystals (which technically makes sense if you are allowed to move them) and then killed the spawn points. We never finished the plot as a result. It appears the rules technically allow you to Pull the spawn point AND Compel it...but Compel makes less sense thematically.
2) Verified that spawn points and models destroyed by Backlash or Fire still allow the heroes to draw Loot and Treasure. Only models that yield loot will not count towards loot when defeated by Backlash or Fire.
3) Some tiles have difficult terrain and structure in the middle (e.g. Von Drakk pumpkin patch with house!). Flying mobs can spawn and stay on top of the structure....surrounded by difficult terrain. Most DEX/WILL heroes can hit them with their ranged attacks. STR heroes it seems just have to hope they have enough movement to get close enough and/or have extra melee range/AOE that can reach them. This is mostly...commentary rather than a question.
4) Do monsters in Arcade use secret passages when determining the shortest route to the Hero with most wrath?
5) If a hero or monster is on top of a secret passage, does that count as LOS to all the other secret passage squares?
6) Was there ever a rule/clarification re: having monsters/heroes sit on secret passages to block passage in/out of them?
7) If a monster or hero has an active Aura effect and suffers Ice, does that 'shut down' the Aura? My assumption is no b/c there isn't a mechanic I'm aware of that removes buffs in play. Depends on if you consider Aura buffs to be channeled or not (thematically).


March 21st, 2018, 4:29 am
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Bottle Cap
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So I know this is "Arcade" but rather than start a whole new thread on Explore that may go no where I would like to say I played an Explore game last night and it felt great. 2.0 really seems on point on that front too.


March 26th, 2018, 1:10 pm
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Denizen
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Played another co-op tonight -- no pictures and probably no battle report since the game actually played relatively smoothly.

Rules questions that came up, though:
1) Can you Push/Pull/Compel Spawn Points? We had the Wards of Protection Plot and since I could not find a rule that prevented you from moving the spawn point, so we just pushed the spawn away from the protection crystals (which technically makes sense if you are allowed to move them) and then killed the spawn points. We never finished the plot as a result. It appears the rules technically allow you to Pull the spawn point AND Compel it...but Compel makes less sense thematically.
2) Verified that spawn points and models destroyed by Backlash or Fire still allow the heroes to draw Loot and Treasure. Only models that yield loot will not count towards loot when defeated by Backlash or Fire.
3) Some tiles have difficult terrain and structure in the middle (e.g. Von Drakk pumpkin patch with house!). Flying mobs can spawn and stay on top of the structure....surrounded by difficult terrain. Most DEX/WILL heroes can hit them with their ranged attacks. STR heroes it seems just have to hope they have enough movement to get close enough and/or have extra melee range/AOE that can reach them. This is mostly...commentary rather than a question.
4) Do monsters in Arcade use secret passages when determining the shortest route to the Hero with most wrath?
5) If a hero or monster is on top of a secret passage, does that count as LOS to all the other secret passage squares?
6) Was there ever a rule/clarification re: having monsters/heroes sit on secret passages to block passage in/out of them?
7) If a monster or hero has an active Aura effect and suffers Ice, does that 'shut down' the Aura? My assumption is no b/c there isn't a mechanic I'm aware of that removes buffs in play. Depends on if you consider Aura buffs to be channeled or not (thematically).


1) because spawn points have no movement or actions, they can not be moved by this method as a pull, compel, etc, can not allow a model to move in a way that would not be a legal move on its own turn.

2) The party may not draw loot cards for monsters that were destroyed during the Consul Turn (such as from Fire or Backlash) or that possess the Insignificant ability. Rewards for destroying spawning points or which result in treasure cards may be drawn as normal, regardless of the turn. So unless it draws a red treasure or is a spawning point, no you do not draw loot.

3) I feel like this was a thing and was addressed, I don't remember.

4) I don't know an official ruling on this, but we play they cant. Since they are not effected by negative effects such as difficult terrain or lava, etc, We as a group say they dont use the passages.

5) No, Line of sight is measured from the square the model is on to the square the target is on. EDIT: But movement and action points can be mixed, so you can use 1 MP to go to another passage, 1AP to attack, 1 MP back, and so on.

6) You can block the secret passages, yes. Its just like funneling the enemy through a door way. It sucks, its a cheap tactic, but can be done.

7) it does not shut down the aura, unless the aura is activated by a unique action. if a model is suffering ice, it can not activate its unique action. But once its activated it does not remove it.

Hope this helps.

in general, it sounds to me like (and do not take offense to this, as it is not meant to offend as we have all done it) you are trying to read the rules to your advantage. Which I think we have all done in arcade to help combat the hard encounters. But yeah, some of the questions you rose are questions we all asked during beta testing. I feel like creatures with fly can't end their turns on top of structures, but I don't remember where or when I read that. So good luck on that one, haha. But yeah, backlash also got big time nerfed in ARCADE. 1 damage this way per consul turn! Ouch!

Anyway hope this all answers and clarifies things.


March 27th, 2018, 1:42 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Thanks, dsdrew! And yes, I am reading the rules to my advantage, since that's what one does during Arcade with the lack of a Consul player. Also, looking to poke holes in the rules to differentiate b/w how something *is* written vs. *should be* written since I'm the only person in my group that bothers to read rules. This way we can appropriately houserule stuff with the understanding it's a houserule and not official. I really hated the previous 1.0/1.5 rules b/c there was so much errata that no one could keep straight what was supposed to happen so...trying to get ahead of it this time around.

For 1) re: push/pull/compel, can you actually find a reference in the rulebook? We played it this way b/c the rules for push/pull/compel says model and spawn points are models. There will eventually be spawn points that move (siege of the citadel) so I was thinking they'd want to put in something specific like they did for Critical Success not working or Push/pull/compel not working unless the model has movement points.

I think I'm ok /w 2), 3), 4), 5), and 6).

For 7) on Ice, I was re-reading the rulebook and now I'm not sure I've been playing Ice right.

So Ice reads (from Explore Classic 2.0 p 36):
A model suffering Ice may not use unique actions.

I've been playing they cannot use offensive or support actions, but they can drink potions.

But then on p 19 Potions:

Drinking a potion grants the model a free unique
action
, that does not cost any action points, of the
following type: support action, offensive action,
support action.

So based on the literal reading of Ice, that means heroes cannot drink potions, so it doubles down as the old school Choke.

And I was thinking this means that a Hero that is Iced is not prevented from drinking their potion or another hero's potion, but is not able to execute the unique action granted due to having Ice.

But what if another Hero wants to drink the potion from the Hero that is iced? Technically it seems this is still an option since Ice doesn't prevent sharing potions.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything with this. Most monsters don't deal Ice, but we've had plenty of Challenges that have, so not sure we even had the opportunity to play this wrong yet.


March 27th, 2018, 3:57 pm
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Denizen
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Because the potion “grants the model” a free unique action, I read it this way.

-Any model not suffering ice can drink any potion.
-Any model suffering ice cannot drink any potion.


March 27th, 2018, 4:05 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Thanks, dsdrew! And yes, I am reading the rules to my advantage, since that's what one does during Arcade with the lack of a Consul player. Also, looking to poke holes in the rules to differentiate b/w how something *is* written vs. *should be* written since I'm the only person in my group that bothers to read rules. This way we can appropriately houserule stuff with the understanding it's a houserule and not official. I really hated the previous 1.0/1.5 rules b/c there was so much errata that no one could keep straight what was supposed to happen so...trying to get ahead of it this time around.

For 1) re: push/pull/compel, can you actually find a reference in the rulebook? We played it this way b/c the rules for push/pull/compel says model and spawn points are models. There will eventually be spawn points that move (siege of the citadel) so I was thinking they'd want to put in something specific like they did for Critical Success not working or Push/pull/compel not working unless the model has movement points.

I think I'm ok /w 2), 3), 4), 5), and 6).

For 7) on Ice, I was re-reading the rulebook and now I'm not sure I've been playing Ice right.

So Ice reads (from Explore Classic 2.0 p 36):
A model suffering Ice may not use unique actions.

I've been playing they cannot use offensive or support actions, but they can drink potions.

But then on p 19 Potions:

Drinking a potion grants the model a free unique
action
, that does not cost any action points, of the
following type: support action, offensive action,
support action.

So based on the literal reading of Ice, that means heroes cannot drink potions, so it doubles down as the old school Choke.

And I was thinking this means that a Hero that is Iced is not prevented from drinking their potion or another hero's potion, but is not able to execute the unique action granted due to having Ice.

But what if another Hero wants to drink the potion from the Hero that is iced? Technically it seems this is still an option since Ice doesn't prevent sharing potions.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything with this. Most monsters don't deal Ice, but we've had plenty of Challenges that have, so not sure we even had the opportunity to play this wrong yet.


Holy cross nailed the answer to the ice.

And if you read in the arcade 2.0 rulebook, it says compel etc, can not be used to make a movement that would be illegal on their own turn. So you can't move through chasms, be forces through enemies, etc. Since the Spawn points have no movement points, they can not move. That's how I interpret it. A specific SPM response would be very helpful here.

And yeah, My friends and I have caught ourselves when playing going, "I feel like we read that with ourselves in mind, that seems a little cheesy" Sure enough we did. But then we read some where we read it and said, "There's no way that's how that works. Dam, that is how that works"

Hahahaha.

So yeah, Hope this all helps. This game is all about playing more and more to iron out the kinks, were still making mistakes.


March 27th, 2018, 4:23 pm
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Thanks, guys! That makes sense and I think I can make a case for it next time. I just thought it was so silly that an Arcade Plot could be circumvented by what seemed like an obvious loophole!

I do really want to have a situation where the heroes can make monsters fly, but then push/compel them over chasms, and then Fly wears off when they try to activate...maybe something for SDE: Legends, haha.

I think I'm closing on, if not past 10 Arcade playthroughs and still finding new things, but thankfully, everything I'm finding is very edgecase.

Once I stop finding 5+ new things I want feedback on every match, I'll work on tuning the game difficulty since I think it's clear from my playthroughs that the first few turns are trivialized with 0 monsters alive/nothing activating if the heroes are lucky. If they're not lucky, then I think it plays more as intended with the heroes struggling to kill the third spawn point b/f MMC12 in less than ideal situations. The part I'm still struggling with is ensuring the heroes aren't SO unlucky that they're loot starved as there isn't any real catch-up mechanic to 'keep the struggle going'.

I'm thinking about a match where 2/3 treasure chests were boo booties/bad things, the heroes constantly whiffed defense rolls by 1 star, and then whiffed key AOE's, and then got bad loot/equip when they did get equip. Those games are a lot less fun when you miss a lot, but it does feel good to win (since we haven't technically lost b/c I misplayed rules in the heroes favor...), but maybe never repeat that situation.

So..I think with the Ice clarification, I can maybe say I'll actually play all the status effects correctly :).


March 27th, 2018, 5:11 pm
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When it comes to all the secret passage stuff, I find that they were designed in a bygone era, for that bygone era. E.G. the original version of SDE. In that version, monsters were everywhere, and they all got to go. So having heroes able to split up and "skip ahead" wasn't as big of a deal. Under the current rules, though, and with the concepts added for but wholly unaccounted for in arcade, secret passages are just a mess. The best rules fix I have found is to just ignore them. Pretend they do not exist on any map segment at all. The Von Drakk tiles are still very usable and interesting without the secret passages and you don't have to worry about all these weird rules quirks in arcade mode.


March 27th, 2018, 8:22 pm
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Usagi wrote:
When it comes to all the secret passage stuff, I find that they were designed in a bygone era, for that bygone era. E.G. the original version of SDE. In that version, monsters were everywhere, and they all got to go. So having heroes able to split up and "skip ahead" wasn't as big of a deal. Under the current rules, though, and with the concepts added for but wholly unaccounted for in arcade, secret passages are just a mess. The best rules fix I have found is to just ignore them. Pretend they do not exist on any map segment at all. The Von Drakk tiles are still very usable and interesting without the secret passages and you don't have to worry about all these weird rules quirks in arcade mode.


I agree with this. I’ve handled it the same way.


March 27th, 2018, 9:01 pm
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Did anyone have a chance to review these (renumbered)? A lot of Walrus related stuff.

1) Assume Drag and Chomp, when it hits, will Pull 4 and then Wound the target so when the Wound resolves, no expendable minions are in range.
2) Assume Slow only halves the models Move for purposes of their activation and does not impact movement given by Angry Walrus or other effects.
3) Assume Knockdown prevents Angry Walrus from moving and removes the Knockdown token.
4) If Drag and Chomp misses the DEX attack, does the Tusk Raider still get to Chomp if the mob is in range? I was thinking yes based on how it was worded.
5) Can you Lance Charge over a Chasm? Based on the wording, the answer is YES and would also allow you to hit models Flying over a chasm
6) (related to Fly) What happens to a model with Fly over a structure or chasm that loses Fly? I can't find a ruling in FK or SDE 2.0. IIRC, I think in SDE 1.0 they suffer a wound and are placed on the board in the closest open square.
7) When placing a large base model from Charge, does only a single square of the base or the entire base need to be inside the Lance 6 AOE? I think the appropriate answer is YES, but based on how it's worded, it does not specifically say the entire model like it does on certain other abilities. This may matter as Charge is seen on other Consul models with large bases.


March 27th, 2018, 9:25 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Did anyone have a chance to review these (renumbered)? A lot of Walrus related stuff.

1) Assume Drag and Chomp, when it hits, will Pull 4 and then Wound the target so when the Wound resolves, no expendable minions are in range.
2) Assume Slow only halves the models Move for purposes of their activation and does not impact movement given by Angry Walrus or other effects.
3) Assume Knockdown prevents Angry Walrus from moving and removes the Knockdown token.
4) If Drag and Chomp misses the DEX attack, does the Tusk Raider still get to Chomp if the mob is in range? I was thinking yes based on how it was worded.
5) Can you Lance Charge over a Chasm? Based on the wording, the answer is YES and would also allow you to hit models Flying over a chasm
6) (related to Fly) What happens to a model with Fly over a structure or chasm that loses Fly? I can't find a ruling in FK or SDE 2.0. IIRC, I think in SDE 1.0 they suffer a wound and are placed on the board in the closest open square.
7) When placing a large base model from Charge, does only a single square of the base or the entire base need to be inside the Lance 6 AOE? I think the appropriate answer is YES, but based on how it's worded, it does not specifically say the entire model like it does on certain other abilities. This may matter as Charge is seen on other Consul models with large bases.


1-6 all look correct. I can’t verify 7 until I’m off work. Remind me on FB messenger in 3 hours and I’ll take a look.


March 27th, 2018, 9:43 pm
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Ok, found the rule for not being able to move spawn points.

Pg 29 classic 2.0 and pg 40 Arcade:

Control Effects allow one model to move another model.
A model that is moved as a result of a control effect does
not count as having been activated and may still activate
and move as normal during their own turn.

A model may never be moved in a manner that would not
be legal for it to move on its own. Difficult terrain and
other tile effects are treated as normal.


This also provides clarification for the Walrus movement during consul turn is still affected by difficult terrain so the Consul can move the walrus into lava with 1+ star and only into brambles on 2+ star so a defensive measure may be to keep the Walrus relatively away from bad stuff.

And i feel dumb b/c I was literally looking at this page in the arcade rulebook and somehow didn't see it. oh well. such is boardgame life.


March 27th, 2018, 11:10 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Ok, found the rule for not being able to move spawn points.

Pg 29 classic 2.0 and pg 40 Arcade:

Control Effects allow one model to move another model.
A model that is moved as a result of a control effect does
not count as having been activated and may still activate
and move as normal during their own turn.

A model may never be moved in a manner that would not
be legal for it to move on its own. Difficult terrain and
other tile effects are treated as normal.


This also provides clarification for the Walrus movement during consul turn is still affected by difficult terrain so the Consul can move the walrus into lava with 1+ star and only into brambles on 2+ star so a defensive measure may be to keep the Walrus relatively away from bad stuff.

And i feel dumb b/c I was literally looking at this page in the arcade rulebook and somehow didn't see it. oh well. such is boardgame life.


You can’t beat yourself up for missing a rule. We all do it. Eventually the words start blurring together after awhile.


March 27th, 2018, 11:18 pm
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SDE:A 2.0 Pet Parade Playthrough

My playgroup is going to playtest Pet Parade this coming week so thought I'd do an official solo playtest to make sure I remember all the rules.

I also decided to play an unbalanced, but still thematic, party!

Heroes: Scarecrow (STR/WILL AOE, Heal) /w Mr. Bitey (grants Berserk, 2 AP 2R STR), Twilight Knight (STR/DEX AOE, Potion kills Creeps) /w the Colonel, Marie-Claude (STR/ARM AOE, Bane, Tank, Heal/Remedy) /w Mr. Gruff (Knockdown)
Spawns: Pumpkin Patch (T1), Grabby House (T2/T3)
Bosses: Gruesome George, Beatrice
Plot: Essence Drain (Pet Parade)
Boss Spawn: MMC 6
Playtime: 2 hrs (including setup and teardown)

Image
Solo 3 hero Arcade Pet Parade. Jack Scarecrow, Marie Claude, and Twilight Knight against Pumpkin Patch, Stilt town Zombies, Gruesome George, and Beatrice!

Image
The Heroes start with the Pumpkin Patch Gangs flying over Difficult Terrain!

Image
Jack Scarecrow, Mr. Bitey, and the Twilight are able to clear the Curse Coven Gang. The first chest was a Boo Booty that the Twilight Knight's Lamplight potion destroyed.

Image
The Crypt Spider is unable to wound the heroes and is defeated by Marie Claude and the Twilight Knight. Marie Claude presses her luck and uses a secret passage to Tile 2!

Image
Jack Scarecrow and Mr Bitey defeat the Pumpkin Patch and unleash the Pet Parade Arcade Plot Essence Drain

Image
Rattlebones spawn...

Image
Marie Claude defeats the first Grabby House before it can spawn any zombies

Image
The Rattlebones lurch towards Marie Claude and Grab the Twilight Knight!

Image
And Gruesome George joins the party!

Image
The second Grabby House spawns the Stilt Town Zombie gangs. There are so many...

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Jack Scarecrow loots the second treasure chest and opens Perilous Pages. Luckily the Challenge doesn't include a trap!

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The Twilight Knight defeats the remaining Rattlebones on Tile 1 and summons the Colonel. Jack Scarecrow and Mr Bitey are Grabbed by a Rattlebones as they attack Gruesome George! The Rattlebones are set on Fire by Jack.

Image
The Zombies move forward, but are not able to reach Scarecrow. They turn their dead eyes on Marie Claude, but are unable to defeat her!

Image
Marie Claude is Grabbed by the Pudge and cannot move. She deals it many wounds, but is unable to defeat it as the Swampies take the blows! Jack Scarecrow sneaks by George and uses Harvest Scythe to clear out a swathe of Undead with a Critical Success. He retreats back behind the Champion. Marie Claude is finally able to summon Mr. Gruff.

Image
The Zombies continue to advance. George's static fills the air and he continues to lash into Jack, but is not able to defeat him. The Shamble Priest is also unable to wound Jack without his Prowlers for assistance. The Pudges are still not able to reach Jack, so they continue to attack Marie-Claude, but are not able to defeat her. A Pudge is able to poison Mr Gruff using the Champion bonus.

Image
The Twilight Knight with the Colonel's support, is finally able to defeat the heavily wounded Pudge's, but their Gross attack defeats Mr Gruff! Jack is finally able to defeat George with the aid of Mr Bitey and Champion. Although heavily wounded, the Heroes are in sight of the last Spawn Point.

Image
Marie Claude rushes over to the Grabby House and is able to defeat it while healing all the heroes. The final treasure chest is looted by the Twilight Knight. Beatrice arrives in fashion!

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Beatrice immediately sets about wounding the heroes despite their high defense and summoning her Ghosts.

Image
Beatrice then plans a Secret Escape and flanks the Heroes!

Image
The Heroes re-engage and although they are wounded by Beatrice and summon more ghosts, she falls to their multiple attacks.

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The Twilight Knight received a lot of DEX loot she was not able to utilize since she could not keep Wrath. Her Piercing Blade was instrumental in defeating the Pudges to avoid Expendable. She never actually got to swing that Battleaxe. The heroes only found 2 pieces of loot with STR (one was discarded for the axe).

Image
Marie Claude took the brunt of the attacks from the zombies due to Jack being out of range. She defeated both Grabby Houses in a single activation and became quite the terror herself once she equipped the Citrine Crystal Shard and Brain Souffle.

Image
Jack and Mr Bitey were the MVPs as he was the only hero with sufficient strength to consistently wound George and Mr Bitey actually dealt quite a few wounds himself. Jack was the target of the majority of the attacks due to his AOE, but his high defense and Marie Claude's potion were sufficient to prevent him from being defeated.


Rules/Issues:
1) I hadn't played George in a long time. Forgot he was immune to status effects. Didn't matter b/c I used Fire and his Tough canceled it out.
2) I have never played Beatrice or with Ghosts. Marie-Claude was invaded and I removed some status effects with Hearts I was not supposed to. This did not make a difference, but would've required a different order of operations.
3) I kept wanting to move the Creeps first. I think they are supposed to move last. As such, they can prevent large base models from moving optimally - the Rattlebones prevented the Pudges from moving.
4) Mobs with Grabby will move towards the hero with the most Wrath and release the one they're holding with no ill effect. I know I played this right, but I'm thinking in Classic the Consul would probably elect to keep the heroes Grabbed wherever they are
5) Used the secret passage to hit Tile 2 early despite not having ranged or high mobility heroes. Figured this was fair given the tougher tiles I picked.

Observations:
1) This was the first match I played where I was loot starved for STR equipment. I only got 2 STR Loot the entire match, and they were for the same slot. I had a lot of really lucky rolls (e.g. Marie Claude defeating a spawn point on a single activation with no STR equipment), but also a lot of misses since Jack with 2B2R STR (which is how much STR he ended with) was my highest offense hero until Tile 3 spawned. Tile 2's Champion was the only reason my party was able to defeat Gruesome George and the Pudge's with such low offense.
2) This party actually worked out ok defense wise. I got a lot of DEX and WILL loot so I was often able to defend, which was great b/c I was struggling to roll any potions.
3) I had really bad luck with Treasure and drew Boo Booty and Perilous Pages. But I was lucky in that I brought Twilight Knight to blow up the Boo Booty and the Pages missed hitting the heroes with a trap!
4) The Stilt town zombies played as I expected, low defense, high wound, low loot.
5) Gruesome George is still scary to fight. Due to my low offense and with some challenges that pushed his ARM even higher, I was able to deal the first four wounds ok, but then it took multiple turns to get those last two wounds!
6) Due to the low offense, I was heart and potion starved most of the match. The potions I did get were spent on Lamplight and Heal/Remedy pots. I was able to get STR treasure after the last treasure chest, which was fortunate b/c else I think defeating Beatrice would've been a slow fight of attrition.


Pet Parade Observations:
1) Mr Bitey is a beast. He has high starting offense of 2R STR, 2 AP, and gives Berserk. He dealt a critical success on his own and was like having an extra, mini hero on the board. I did not have to summon him, which was quite fortunate, b/c he is expensive. The biggest thing I had to watch out for was to not accrue too much Wrath.
2) The Colonel was actually quite cool. Unlike a lot of the other pets, he does not need to stay within range of your hero so he can stay relatively safe away from AOE's and just needs to move in, activate your hero to attack, and then retreat.
3) Poor Mr Gruff has ridiculous 3 ARM so he normally is immune to Pudge's attacks, but the Champion bonus did him in! Knockdown is pretty powerful in Arcade depending on how you interpret Regroup and he was able to wound a monster, but due to the difficult terrain, I didn't have many options for moving him to safety.
4) This was a low loot game due to killing the spawn points early, but also playing with low loot ratio zombies. I was more aggressive with equipping defense loot b/c I assumed my bad luck with STR would continue (and it did) so it took me a bit to get the loot to summon the pets. Unlike trading loot for treasure, you can't turn around and trade the pet in for more treasure if you don't like it. Instead, the pet needs to have impact on the board such to be worth the opportunity cost of using the loot or trading for treasure. Mr. Bitey I didn't pay for and he did awesome. The Colonel only did ok b/c the Twilight Knight didn't have as many opportunities to shine.
5) Essence Drain I think is much weaker than the regular Arcade Plot, but I think better balanced/easier to deal with. It spawns 6-8 creeps which you can help destroy with AOE, so they won't necessarily cost extra actions, but they can move pretty fast and impact the board. The regular Plot (the lurker or creeper or something) spawns 6-8 crystals that move a bit slower, but you have to move on top of them and use an action or maybe spend loot to get rid of them. Also, each crystal kills a princess coin whereas Essence Drain requires 3 creeps to kill a princess coin (but the creeps stick around). The strength of the Plot is absolutely related to the Creep you pick so maybe you pick a themed creep or at random.
6) Bosses that come with creeps only come with 6 creeps, which is maybe sufficient for 3 hero games. There is technically no cap on creeps so unless SDE releases creep specific packs (so you don't have to buy a bunch of bosses), get used to the idea of counter/proxies. You can have 3 types of creeps in a game (Challenge Creep, Plot Creep, and Boss Creep), I think? If challenge creep and plot creep are shared, I think that may be too confusing or maybe that's the point to make the plot creeps powerful when you get a pet challenge.
7) I drew 0 Pet Parade challenges. The next one was going to be one, but I basically didn't get to test these.
8) Creeps don't attack, but they also don't give loot, so they are generally not worth spending any time on unless they are doing something bad to you (like invading or Grabby).
9) Hero pets are definitely not created equal, but in general they should be giving you ~1-2 AP worth of 'stuff' which can help in then killing Creeps (b/c pets are usually stronger than creeps) or other monsters. Mr. Bitey was very noticeable. I felt the Colonel and Mr Gruff I could've gotten more mileage from in different circumstances.
10) I wasn’t wild about summoning pets at the end of the hero activation as that meant it had to survive 1 to 2 consul turns before it can provide benefit unless it’s a defensive pet. But I think this is necessary for Classic and means you have to plan ahead.


Verdict: Very positive. Based on this playthrough and even including one I did before where we only tried one pet, giving Pets to the Hero is like an official 'easy mode' expansion. The Pets always help and they are so darn cute and open up a lot more strategies I think they're worth the playtime. As for adding Creeps? As long as you also add Pets, they definitely feel balanced and help 'fill in the board'. I was a bit sad in 2.0 when the board started so empty compared to FK, but these help and feel 'cool' when a bunch of creeps (rather than crystals) show up to start doing stuff. They aren't super scary b/c they no longer attack (I always hated dying to rabid squirrels in FK...) so you can ignore them...until you can't.

Normally I hoard Loot to trade for more Treasure and then trade that Treasure for more Treasure, etc. With Pets, since you PICK your pet, you can pick something that complements you, doesn't use up slots, isn't as much RNG, and I think adds value/immersion. It's always fun when your pet helps out and it's sad when your pet dies, but the cost to bring them back isn't prohibitive (usually) until the boss fight when you can typically no longer accrue loot (which is appropriate).

From my end, I'm mostly worried about there not being sufficient guidelines for how many creeps you should have/use and at what point you need to start proxying. I foresee the tile pack creeps and maybe giri being used the most since that's what most folks have the most of. That means those creeps are less likely to be available for Hero pets, but I think that'll be ok once Pet Parade officially releases with its bajillion pets or you could start using Kobolds or the like.


April 1st, 2018, 7:22 am
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Denizen
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Joined: February 11th, 2014, 10:03 pm
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Excellent battle report @Sleepy Laughter! Pet Parade sounds like it would be great for parents playing with their kids because A- it’s easier and B- pets seem like a great, kid friendly theme.

Keep it up! Once I get ahead of this campaign I’ll post another battle report! Twilight Knight is probably going to be in the party too.


April 1st, 2018, 7:17 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Also note, Tusk Raider's Angry Walrus can kill your party's pets! Including his own (savage!) So that adds an additional layer of hilarity, especially if you have the demolition turtle pet that blows up and the Walrus blows it up in the middle of the party.


April 2nd, 2018, 4:03 pm
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Finished my coop arcade pet parade Playthrough with very positive feedback. I think Pet Parade qualifies as easy mode for arcade since the pets are consistently adding value and are usually going to be worth the loot they cost to summon and using them only adds time and depth to the game with virtually no con.

The Creep plots depend on the creeps you’re using and how many you have. Pet parade will have 12 creep counters and it’s balanced around 2 per hero or 2 per tile in most cases. tile packs have 12 but bosses have 6 creeps. So plan to use proxies or be limited to the creeps that you have models of or use multiple sets of creeps. There is no official rule I could find regarding how many creeps you add per game so you have to decide whether to limit by model or by soft cap.

As far as I can tell you can have multiple creeps invading a hero so this is a way to prevent more from spawning. Just let all the squirrels invade your pants and manage wrath.

I’ll write a more detailed report with what happened and insights later.


April 4th, 2018, 4:07 am
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Mini-Boss
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Co-op Pet Parade Arcade 2.0 playtest.

My Group's first time seeing which pets were available was at the match. They tend to pick heroes based on the model and did likewise with the pet. I did steer them away from Miss G Snorts based on the monsters we were fighting. We played with the Pet Parade Challenges shuffled into the main deck (drew 2 during the match, but they did not have impact) and only used Pet Parade Plots to guarantee we'd have something Creep oriented.

Heroes & Pets:
Scarecrow & The Colonel
Ember Mage & Mr. Chompers (start in play)
Calico Kate & Demolition Turtle
Ninja Cola & Fireflower

Spawns: Old Growth Hollow (T1/T2), Bramble Knight (T3)
Bosses: Bashful Boris, The Forgotten King
Plot: The Tracking Spell - Creeps spawn 2 per crystal on each hero within 4 of Start. Crystals may be removed when the hero rolls WILL/DEX vs 1 at a dungeon exit.
Plot Creep: Rabid Squirrels (Invader, -1W defense)
Boss Spawn: MMC 8
Playtime: 3 hrs (including setup, dinner, and teardown)

Turn 1: Scarecrow and Ember Mage clear out the Kodama Elites and kill some Mooks. Mr. Chompers kills a Mook. Heroes draw DEX treasure and loot (1R1G) so Ninja Cola starts the game OP. Lil Sprouts wound Scarecrow and Poison him.

Turn 2: Kate and Cola defeat the Mooks and defeat Lil' Sprouts enough to become King Sprouts. Fire Flower is summoned on Tile 2 in range of spawn point 2 and nestled by a Goddess structure. Fail to wound T2 Spawn. Demolition Turtle is summoned and makes its way towards Tile 2. King Sprouts attacks Cola, but misses, allowing Cola to move to Tile 2. Mooks reinforce King Sprouts.

Turn 3: Ember Mage and Scarecrow defeat T1 Spawn point and kill off some Mooks with Mr. Chompers help, but are unable to defeat King Sprouts. The Tracking Spell is in effect and 6 rabid squirrels spawn in the middle of T1 intent on getting in Scarecrow's Pants!. Ember Mage takes this opportunity to drop her Tracking Spell. Two Squirrels invade Scarecrow. King Sprouts eats one of his Mooks, hits Scarecrow and Mr. Chompers, and Kate with AOE (Cola defends and Sidesteps further into Tile 2) while Ember Mage is out of sight. King Sprouts attacks Scarecrow, wounding him, and pulls him into its embrace. Kodama Elites spawn on Tile 2.

Turn 4: Kate and Cola defeat King Sprout's Mooks, but are not able to finish him off. They are able to wound the second spawn point and defeat the Kodama elites. The party decides to not finish off the second spawn point so we can farm them for additional loot. The Fire Flower again fails to wound the spawn point. Kate discards her Tracking Spell. More Squirrels invade the Scarecrow's Pants (4). Ember Mage was not careful and is also invaded (2) as squirrels move towards the hero with most Wrath, but invade as soon as they are adjacent to a hero. Scarecrow has begun to name his Squirrels and vows to keep them for the rest of the match. King Sprout targets Cola, but is unable to wound him. The Kodama Elites respawn and the Bramble Knight Gangs spawn on Tile 3.

Turn 5: Ember Mage and Mr. Chompers (finally) finish off King Sprout and make their way to Tile 2. Kate (re)defeats the Kodama elites and resummons her demolition turtle. Bashful Boris spawns on the opposite end of Tile 2 (because Kate had inadvertently blocked the closest exit - I'll note that I think I'm playing this wrong). He is unable to move into range of Kate so he attacks Cola, who Sidesteps his attacks. Ember mage is unfortunately not able to avoid his Sweep Slow action. The Bramble Knight Gangs surround Kate and defeat her even with healing from Ember Mage's potion due to failing to save against the Grobbit's Massive Damage Attacks and the Frog Knight attacks. No plot squirrels spawn b/c they are all invading someone's pants.

Turn 6: Scarecrow (still with 4 squirrels in his pants) moves to Tile 2 and starts wounding Boris and summons the Colonel (this was not done previously b/c we never left him enough loot to summon a pet at the end of his activation since Kate would usually use Loot she generated to summon her turtle). Cola finishes off Boris and defeats the Frog knights. He also drops his Tracking spell. The Fire Flower finally wounds a monster and defeats a Billmen. Kate respawns on Tile 2 beside Ember Mage. MMC6 grants +1W STR, but the Grobbit is unable to wound Cola. The Challenge makes the monsters immune to wounds!

Turn 7: Kate steals some Loot from them anyways and moves into Tile 3 to get in range of the Bramble Knight, but is not able to get in range to defeat it. Scarecrow drops his Tracking spell, completing the Arcade Plot, but none of the heroes find Treasure. Scarecrow then starts wounding the Bramble Knight. The heroes loot the remaining treasure chests. The Grobbit and remaining Billmen regroup on Tile 2 and the Frog Knights respawn on Tile 3. The Ill Equipped Challenge wipes out 2 treasures and 2 loot from the heroes :(.

Turn 8: Cola and Ember Mage defeat the Frog Knights, Grobbit, and finish off the Bramble Knight. The Forgotten King spawns on the far end of Tile 2 again, targeting Cola and due to his high movement, he is able to get close, but not in range of Cola, so starts attacking Ember Mage (2 squirrels) and heavily wounds her. He curses the Heroes and only a single hero can activate.

Boss Turn 1: Cola goes to town on the Forgotten King and deals many wounds and rolls a lot of hearts and potions the heroes use to remove their status effects and heal the Ember Mage. The Forgotten King attacks Cola, but cannot wound him through his high dexterity. Cola chooses to NOT Sidestep so his allies will not be targeted. The Forgotten King then excecutes his Secret Escape Plan and looms behind the Ember Mage.

Boss Turn 2: Ember Mage and Mr. Chompers attack the Forgotten King, bringing him closer to death. Scarecrow joins the fray, but is unable to defeat the Forgotten King. The Colonel then commands Scarecrow to swing his scythe one more time and the Forgotten King falls.



Rules/Issues:
1) There is not a rule on max # of creeps that can spawn. In most cases we spawn based on the number of models you have available, but it'd be nice if there was a clarification re: how many creeps should be available for the purpose of plot creeps to ensure they have the expected/balanced impact. This is not addressed on P10 of Pet Parade.
2) If a challenge spawns creeps, you're supposed to use a different creep from the plot creeps. But these creeps don't have to be the same type, so you don't actually pick them before the match and as such, they can add a lot of variety/models to the board. This is covered on P10 of Pet Parade. Thus, we should've spawned creeps for one challenge card we did not.
3) If Demolition Turtle deals wounds, and then is removed, does it generate/take Wrath and then immediately discard it? We played it did and noted that the same thing would happen for its master due to Volatile.
4) If Demolition Turtle/its Master defeats models with Volatile, do the heroes get loot/credit? It's not Fire or Backlash that explicitly state you do not, so assumption is that you do get Loot.
5) If a Creep /w Invader starts its movement adjacent to a hero, does it immediately invade that hero or move away towards the hero with most Wrath? We played that it immediately invades b/c like, that's your fault for getting close to a rabid squirrel.
6) Is there a limit on number creeps that can invade a hero? I cannot find any ruling that says you can have at max 1 creep. Thus, Scarecrow kept all 4 of his squirrels until the end of the match and thus trivialized the plot b/c he effectively kept them from respawning and avoided generating enough Wrath to be targeted.
7) Pets activate after their masters so unlike my first Pet Parade playthrough, we actually played the pet gets to move right after it's summoned, which felt a lot better/makes sense. This seems to be supported by P7 Pet will activate immediately after its master and Summon Pet is at the end of the Hero's activation.



Observations:
1) It seems you ideally want 2x tile/2x hero for the plot creep so you don't 'cheapen' it. It feels like they're designed around tile pack creeps that can work for 6 hero games. 6 creeps is generally sufficient for a 3 hero game plot. There isn't an easy means of getting more boss creeps, but they selected Beatrix's Ghosts as one of the included Creeps and you can only get 6 of those easily. Wonder if they will have separate Creep packs or just expect us to keep getting Tile packs? Pet Parade as a product comes with 18 pets (6 from FK) and 12 creep tokens. So if you had Pet Parade, you can spawn enough creeps to do plots for 3-4 heroes and have enough to do most challenges, but ultimately, you can run out. For example, Tracking Spell with infinite squirrels is much more dangerous than 6 unless Scarecrow just sits in the dungeon exit to Tile 2 and collects them all as they run by.
2) Pets feel very unbalanced and for min/maxers, you may see the same pets over and over again. Different pets are better/worse depending on the type of hero you play, but I feel this is just like Heroes -- it's not designed to be perfect, it's designed to be fun and have variety.
3) Be careful where you summon your Fire Flower. They can potentially be used to destroy a spawn early in the game if you're lucky, but they can't move and if the Consul doesn't kill it, it may be stuck away from any relevant combat since you can only summon a pet not in play and it's generally not worth trying to kill it with Dangerous attacks if you have any just to resummon it.
4) Adding 1 pet per hero is like getting multiple easy modes. For example, the easy mode potion that gives each hero 1 loot...pets are generally worth multiple loot and don't take up a loot slot and the heroes start with 1 (or 2 in 5-6 hero mode) for free. Adding Creeps to the game does not balance them b/c they take the place of an existing Plot or Challenge card and are not always as strong (as something like Ill Equipped). Most Plots with Crystals that must be removed require move movement to get to and actions to interact with vs. Creeps since you can AOE creeps and they can come to you. Creeps generally move faster than Plot Crystals and they add depth to the game. But they can also prevent Arcade Gangs from moving if they happen to prevent large bases to get to where they are going.
5) There is a lot of added play and wait time for folks playing pets for the first time. B/c they're effectively playing 1.5 heroes per activation and vying on which loot should be saved to feed pets vs. trade for treasure/equipment. That being said, it was pretty easy for them to pick it up b/c they work very similarly to heroes minus having Master ability and not healing from hearts.
6) General consensus seems to be Loot/Treasure priority is: Equip heroes > Summon Pets > Trade for Treasure. I think this is the right way b/c hoarding for Treasure can take a few turns and may not pay off whereas the Pets do feel impactful/fun enough to spend loot on.
7) Demolition Turtle was the MvP Pet for highest # of wounds dealt due to blowing up (6+), but also cost/ate the most loot to be summoned. Fire Flower was weakest at 1 wound dealth itself and 1 extra missile attack granted to Cola. Colonel helped Scarecrow deal 3 wounds. Mr. Chompers whiffed a lot and also dealt 3 wounds total (including 1 Fire wound).
8) Heroes picked a particularly strong party (everyone except Cola had AOE) and I picked Cola b/c I needed to pick DEX to round out the heroes and I hadn't played him in awhile and didn't want to suck in case we were DEX loot starved (we had enough DEX loot and treasure that Cola had 2B3R2G at the end). In retrospect, I should've picked Angry Walrus and seen what havoc he'd wreak :).
9) Right now there are 7 Pets (6 FK + Mr. Bitey) and 10 creeps. Ghosts (6), Squirrels (6), Giri (6) - more if you did FK KS, Demo Turtles (6), Rattlebones (12) - more if you did KS or got an older version of Von Drakk Manor, Fire Flowers (12), Slimes (12) - more if you did FK KS. When Pet Parade releases, the number of pet models increase by 12 to 19, but total pets is 20 b/c Squigglies. Creeps stay 10 models but gets 11 profiles with squigglies until SDE:L bosses with creeps are released. SDE:L bosses will add models and Creep cards for Kodead, Nether Imp, Ghost Flame, Yowling, Waystone, and Forge Gnomes, pushing # of creeps of 16 models, 17 profiles. I really hope they consider releasing pet profiles for things like Yowlings b/c...how fun would that be?
10) Anyways, the number of creeps you have may limit the ones you may want to use for the Plot Creep, but you don't have to use a Plot creep and just rely on challenges, in which case, you can use whatever creeps of however many you have/want.
11) Since creeps replace a plot/challenge you'd normally get, they do not need you to play Pets to offset them.
12) Pet Parade almost seems a requirement to get the rules to play the new bosses of legends since they ALL have creeps. This means you can expect at least 3 types of creeps (plot, boss, challenge) and be guaranteed one (boss).


Feedback:
Everyone really enjoyed Pet Parade. The Pet models were a big hit. Everyone felt like the added time was worth learning to play/use the pets and it was nice to have a 'second chance' when your hero completely whiffed (which happened a few times). Everyone liked the Creep Plot, but also agreed it was significantly weaker than previous Plots and was trivialized by Scarecrow hoarding all the Squirrels in his Pants. I think what'll be telling is whether folks would prefer/consider playing without Pets next time now that they've had a taste.


April 4th, 2018, 10:15 pm
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