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 What's the future of SPM after the Kickstarters? 
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Mini-Boss
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Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 8:15 pm
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So I know I'm not the only one who is a little antsy about the future of the game and company. There is a lot of hate being slung around on the Kickstarter and on the forums, which is why I haven't really been around too much. At this point there isn't much to say other than be patient. Still, I have my worries about the future of the game. When I got into Super Dungeon, I wanted to make it my one game. If I had to collect miniatures, I wanted to stick to a single game system. So far that's what I've done. I was hoping to continue buying into all the new expansions for years. With this last Kickstarter I'm starting to wonder. What is the status of the company? I hear a lot of cries for refunds, so that itself is making me anxious. There really aren't any news articles or updates for months at a time. If you consider other companies like Games Workshop, they have a pretty steady release schedule and news comes out regularly. Of course they are a larger company, but it still sets the standard.

I'm still on board though. After the last update with all the proofs, it's got me more excited than ever. I just don't want this to be the end of the game I love. Does anyone share my fears?


January 15th, 2018, 11:45 pm
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Your post could almost have been written word by word by me.

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January 16th, 2018, 1:37 am
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Mini-Boss
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Glad I'm not the only one. I want to do my best to help any way I can. I've introduced people to the game, run demos, volunteered at conventions, etc. Lately it's a whole lot of nothing. I volunteered at a convention a few years ago and had a blast. Met John and some of the other guys. They treated us all to dinner and drinks, and we all had a blast. I tried to volunteer at the same convention last year and nobody ever got back to me. I know these guys are dedicated and passionate about their product. I want to play in the world they are creating... but it's becoming harder and harder to keep everyone's interest including my own.


January 16th, 2018, 3:32 am
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I don't know a lot about the board game business, but I think SPM needs to heavily consider moving away from the 'Kickstarter as big huge preorder' format and into more regular releases like Testudo Tower and Dragonback Tileset. The more late Kickstarters they do, the less people will back them, the more this business model will cost them. I think they still have enough support to stay afloat, especially once Wave 1 reaches us and people are hyped for the game again. Not that my opinion actually means anything; what we need is word from SPM, but they are probably focused on the immediate future right now

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January 16th, 2018, 5:06 am
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I'm still hyped for the game... sort of. When I kickstarter games, I tend to put them on the back burner and forget about them until the time they are ready to ship. This KS has given me some false starts where I come back and get enthuastic about the game again. Only to find out the game isn't shipping yet. So back to waiting mode and go play other games.
I have no interest in playing with the FK rules anymore since I downloaded the Arcade Beta rules, so I rather not play the game until the KS finally deliveres (and I'm still pretty certain it will deliver - the question is only when).
I bought recently the new Roxor level box and Dragonback maps, so my level of interest peaked again after a long time. So I will dust off my Beta rules and cards and do some monster hunting again.
It's just that I really don't want to use the Beta stuff anymore. I want to play with the real thing...

So I'm with a mixed feelings about what to do with the SDE stuff right now. Sit on self or play with inferior Beta material (inferior in the way that it doesn't look as good as the real cards)...

I was pretty hyped about the Frostbyte Reach stuff that was teased, but that stuff seems so far away now (if it will ever happen). So my hype has faded a bit.

I'm not that upset about the delay though as I have kickstarted lots of other games that will be shipping during this spring, so I can put the SDE back on the back burner and focus on those projects instead.
I know I will be hyped about the SDE 2.0 when it comes out as my interest in the game peaks every time something "new" comes out! (saying new-Roxor, Dragonback maps and turtle boss as "new" feels a bit sad as they were released ages ago, but I got my hands on them only recently...)

I just got Mythic Battles delivered (12 days overdue from the promised delivery date! The bastards! :lol: ) so that will be occupying my time right now. Maybe it will tide me over until SDE deliveres...

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January 16th, 2018, 12:47 pm
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Reading the posts of true veterans here, specially the testimony of @eternaldream who met the persons in charge of this company translate the feel of most of frustrated backers and fans of Super Dungeon.

I have the same opinion of @ParisRokin: Better for the company avoid use the Kickstarter platform again and go straight to retail with more regular releases like Testudo Tower and Dragonback Tileset instead of KS big bundle deals.

Frostbyte Reach still locked in an eternal winter, frosted by preorder status.
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchr ... e+preorder
Sad to remember the update with tease picture of Hoarfang and the tittle "2016 The Year of Super Dungeon"...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/so ... ts/1456186

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January 16th, 2018, 12:53 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Is there supposed to be a livestream today? If so, could someone ask this question for me since I work all day? What are they going to do to win back our trust and keep us hyped for future releases?


January 16th, 2018, 3:18 pm
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Mini-Boss
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If they do a live stream this week it should be tomorrow.


January 16th, 2018, 4:34 pm
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Denizen
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I seriously hope SPM has learned not to rely on Kickstarters, and I also wish that their new marketing guy (the one whose picture was on the front page of the site for a while) would remember to update the site now and then.

The company feels like it's very passionate about the product but not especially passionate about stuff like marketing, deadlines, and other business stuff. Sadly, without the tightly run ship, no business stays afloat for the long term. I'm not a GW fan by any means, but they do know how to run a business and keep the hype driving. They have limited, targeted product lines that all inter-relate, and they stick with what they're good at. SPM, on the other hand, is growing a gigantic and unwieldy product line with less focus than a half-blind man with vaseline smeared on his glasses.

I don't want to prognosticate over the future of SDE, but I can tell you this - I just converted a huge steamer trunk into my SDE mini storage, and was only able to fill it halfway with what I have so far. So they better make a lot more stuff, because I have to fill that damned thing or I'm just going to feel silly.


January 16th, 2018, 4:56 pm
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I really don't be surprised if Super Dungeon have (more one) delay to reach the next GENCON event and follow the same steps of Rail Raiders Infinite.
I want the company make me bite my tongue and prove otherwise.

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January 16th, 2018, 5:49 pm
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Mini-Boss
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I'm depressed that John and Deke don't seem to be able to make lasting, informative statements. W
Every few months we get a snippet, then again it all vanishes.
I like the minis, like painting them and I am anxious to play again. I have about five unpainted minis plus ninjas here. Whenever I look at them, I just can't bring myself to start. As long as everything is afloat, I probably won't.
I will wait and I will wreck mordred and ymnaur and nightsong. I'll love painting them. Right now, I'll stick to assembling KDM or playing gloomhaven. These games are on my shelf. SDL isn't. Neither are legendary bosses or midnight tower, were, SDA

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January 16th, 2018, 7:52 pm
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At the worst scenery, backers will be eternally grateful to have at least received some digital files to print the game that was never physically delivered. :|

But wait a moment! No need to be a backer to have access to all of this digital content... You do not even need a Kickstarter account to download it. :roll:

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January 16th, 2018, 8:44 pm
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Denizen
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My sentiments match that of the original poster. I’m disappointed in SPM, but I’m staying the course on this project. I think SPM could read a few pages out of Steamforged Games book (Dark Souls board game) and Isaac Childres (Gloomhaven) in terms of production, planning, and rules focus. SD: Legends was too ambitious, with not enough pre-Kickstarter planning to meet it’s timeline.

I’ve managed to rally up some excitement by taking the PDFs to Staples and printing out the new cards, trackers and backpack tiles out so I can start playing/learning the 2.0 rules. I’ll make a separate post here after I get in a play through or two and let you all know how it plays.


January 29th, 2018, 7:36 pm
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Mini-Boss
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I also did the same, and printed out the Arcade cards. I have played a few games and really enjoyed myself. I love seeing what became of all the playtesting, since I did a lot of it.


January 29th, 2018, 10:07 pm
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Eternaldream, how many heroes did you play? And what was the approximate playtime?


January 29th, 2018, 10:20 pm
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I hope they will release an official statement themselves soon.

I decided to stay in, and I'm a 300$ backer (I believe they also already charged shipping?)

Hopefully they will update everyone soon.


January 30th, 2018, 8:45 am
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I know that when my group was playtesting the arcade rules we clocked in at, usually, 2.5-3.5 hours a game (it kind of depended on how actually focused we were mostly, we get distracted by shiny things easily).. We play using 5 or 6 heroes usually. I don't imagine the final version would have that much of a playtime difference.

Compared to the original arcade version, this plays way faster and, on an opinion level, way better as well.


January 30th, 2018, 9:00 am
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It pains me to say it, but my fears are now just apathetic acceptance.

When I first saw the SDE 2.0 Kickstarter, it was the first time I saw the game and I was intrigued. I was already into minis, so I bought FK and played an arcade game and was hooked immediately. I spent my whole quarter bonus and bought everything, I tried to get my then girlfriend, now wife to paint the miniatures with me. And of course I got a late pledge on the $300.

I don’t regret getting the pledge, but now it’s the same way a kid doesn’t miss a dollar if he’s been handed 19. Maybe because I’m looking at it through a negative sentiment: They either deliver me something, or they don’t. They already have my money and they aren’t getting another penny again unless it physically exists already and they can deliver it to me. No, I’m not supporting another Kickstarter from SPM.

My advice to SPM is the following:
1. Fire the guy who suggested you rewrite the rules. You could already have had another expansion going with the rules fixes right now. If he can’t be fired, he should step down. If he isn’t with the company anymore, good.
2. Assemble everything you have now and send it as it currently is. We can play with an unprofessional rules set and less than perfect cards.
3. When you have everything else, send that too.
4. When you have fixed everything, send that along too.
5. In the meantime, do something to show us that SDE is still a viable product. The most troubling thing of all is that we haven’t seen anything new. No Pirates, Clockwork Gnomes, other races, or other places. Yes, it would have been in poor taste to start another Kickstarter, but that was before Way of the Fighter (twice), Rail Raiders, and Relic Knights 2.

Right now, I’m worried that I’m in on SDE’s last release.


January 30th, 2018, 11:20 pm
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SuperHappyTime wrote:
1. Fire the guy who suggested you rewrite the rules.

But that rewrite was needed. My story is similar to yours: I started collecting SDE after backing Legends KS. My first buy was FK. It is nice thematically, minis are great, but rules... meh, they are not good. And arcade in FK is even worse. At least in my opinion. And I'm happy rewrite happened, even if it resulted in delay.

SPM did many mistakes during this campaign. There were communication mistakes, there wasn't enough planning. Parallel KSes were handled bad. But rewriting rules was a good decision for the game. If it is about to last it needs new, better rules.

Will it last after current KS? I hope it does, because Crystalia is a charming place and SPM definitely knows how to make great chibi minis. Also new rules are nice.


January 31st, 2018, 12:19 pm
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Minion
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[/quote]
But that rewrite was needed.[/quote]

I agree and disagree. Were the previous rules perfect? No. But a rewrite just stagnated the franchise a bit. I think an after- kickstarter erratta would have been the best bet, or at least, like many have said, if you were to rewrite the rules, getting minis and cards that were compatible with current product and THEN sending new revised rules afterwards would probably been, not only time efficient, but cost- efficient as well. :D


January 31st, 2018, 1:59 pm
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