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 Turtle Shells and Bone Piles 
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Mini-Boss
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I'm probably being a bit dumb here but I was just thinking and checking while playing a game the other day about Bone Piles and mostly relating to Turtle Shells.. Basically, both are the same.. But Bone Piles seam less worked out then Turtle shells.

When a Turtle (Rocktop mostly) is taken out, it is replaced with the Turtle shell. The Turtle Shell is a Special monster which has no activation, no Movement, Cannot spawn, can take no status effects. But it as a defence of 1 star and 2 hearts. (side note.. it's not 8-bit or 16-bit, and doesn't have insignificant.. so I would take it as no loot count for it, but maybe the card should have had insignificant on it).. The only benefits of a Turtle shell is Crushers gain +1 Sapphire dice for every shell in range when it uses the Turtle Tremor special attack. They can also be thrown by Monsters with a Throw ability (like Crushers, Bombardiers, and Rollers)

A bone pile is a BIT like that, but of more use. Like Turtle shells, they are formed when certain monster is destroyed (in this case, many skeleton monsters like Bone Head, Dust mage and Dread Knight). They don't, however, have there own card to be treated like a monster in the same way as Turtle shells, but have no Activation, No movement, cannot spawn, can take no status effects. They have what works out as 1 heart point but can only be damaged by the hero standing on top and spending 2 movement points to stamp on them. Also, unlike turtle shells, they don't give direct use to any monster nor can be thrown BUT Dust Mages and Dust Coven Nercromancers are able to bring bone piles back to life as any boney create that might have formed them.

I'm wondering if, purely theory really, Bone piles should have a monster card like Turtle shells.. without an extra ability listed, this would mean they could be thrown and an ability would be added to allow them to be stamped on.. Thinking about doing a card for personal use (I'll share of course).. But at the moment, bone piles as tokens can be walked on.. rules do say you can stamp on and use movement to destroy them, but doesn't say you HAVE to.. you could just walk on them and walk off leaving them there. This kinda does stop the Bone pile being raised as if a model is on the same space, the Pile can't be raised..

Would making them a bit more in line with Turtle shells be a good thing, or a bad thing... any thoughts?

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July 18th, 2017, 9:17 am
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Ninja Corps
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One other thing is Shells block movement and if placed right form walls. While Bone Piles don't and are only potential respawn undead.

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July 18th, 2017, 11:44 am
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Mini-Boss
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For sure Bone Pile deserves a card like Turtle Shells with "Special" label as Turtle Shells have. To improve it, you may search for generic plastic bone piles to swap cardstock tokens. For instance, plastic death tokens from Arcadia Quest may works this way. Or something like this:
Image

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Last edited by Nephastus on July 18th, 2017, 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



July 18th, 2017, 12:07 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Already working on my own ^_^ need to get the right style after all.

But if you still have the option to stand on them, like normal, Design takes a bit more work.

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July 18th, 2017, 12:13 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Buy some extra Rattlebones and randomly dismantle them and paste the pieces into a small base.

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July 18th, 2017, 12:18 pm
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Minion
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Nephastus wrote:
Buy some extra Rattlebones and randomly dismantle them and paste the pieces into a small base.


or, if you've been collecting SDE stuff since the beginning, like me, and already have about 32 of them rattlebones... you can forego buying extras.


July 18th, 2017, 12:20 pm
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Mini-Boss
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thought about it.. didn't like the idea. Also it's lazy ^_^

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July 18th, 2017, 12:21 pm
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Denizen
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Dungeon Saga had resin bone piles that were specifically designed so you could stand on them.

https://bookkeepergames.files.wordpress ... g_1200.jpg

You might be able to find some for sale somewhere. They're pretty cool, but they're not part of the base game. They were an add-on from the Kickstarter.


July 18th, 2017, 5:10 pm
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Mini-Boss
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InfinityMax wrote:
Dungeon Saga had resin bone piles that were specifically designed so you could stand on them.

https://bookkeepergames.files.wordpress ... g_1200.jpg

You might be able to find some for sale somewhere. They're pretty cool, but they're not part of the base game. They were an add-on from the Kickstarter.


Nice, but hard to find it on the wild.

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July 18th, 2017, 5:23 pm
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Mini-Boss
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yeah.. not bad but not in the style ^_^

Been re-reading the Bone Pile rules... I don't think you CAN step on them.. The rules say about removing an adjacent one.. so they are solid... nothing is said about line of sight but might be solid in the way of movement... interesting.. but then, it says they aren't solid because if a model is ontop of one, I can't spawn... so.. they can't block ^_^

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July 18th, 2017, 5:41 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Sigh.. of course another problem is large base figures.. Sure, I can make them so 1 figure can stand on one bone pile, but what about when you have a large base figure standing on one? or two? three or four is easy enough for balance.. still working though.. Also roughed out the card. Will update as this might be a little fun project. As I do minor resin casting, one I made one clay template, it'll be no trouble to make a bunch.

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July 19th, 2017, 8:15 am
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Mini-Boss
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Looks like the company going to re-re-release an updated box of Von Drakk Manor equal of Caverns of Roxor with a big box, due the exhausted stocks on their web store and others web shops like Miniature Market and Coolstuffinc.

[Suggestion] Since both level boxes have the same price point, but Von Drakk Manor have lesser quantity of miniatures than Caverns of Roxor, a new release with a bunch of plastic bone piles with cards of "special" type like turtle shells make sense, however another good deal is to offer to owners of Von Drakk level box a little upgrade kit with these bone piles and it's cards, maybe with plastic treasure chests and boo booties as part of the kit, in case of that new miniatures come to be real.

But I don't hope it happening, because the company eliminated the plastic treasure chests and boo booties from the new core boxes Explore/Classic.

Anyway... the corrosion of the time acting day-by-day over the Super Dungeon, makes no difference insert any suggestions to improve it...

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July 19th, 2017, 12:25 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Proofing Cards.. Haven't drawn up the Bone pile art yet. Model still being worked on.. I got the basic which.. well.. not 100% ideal but not bad and a figure with normal small base can sit on it pretty well. Making a mould of Clay Prototype, I'll cast from this mould and work on refining it a bit more.

Anyway.. here is a look at the Card front and back so far.
ImageImage

Immune to Status effects seams a natural and kinda must have feature for this, Insignificant is not quite ideal due to the free activation but it's mostly there to show you don't get a loot card for removing it.. but it's possible I could add this to the new ability or remove it altogether as Special types aren't on the loot meter.

Had to add one new Ability: "Stamp!". Couldn't remember or fined an ability that would allow it to be removed via spending 2 movement points, so added it as this new ability. wording seams right for it..

Now the HUGE down side... As it has a card, and a crystal type, it's bound to affect the balance when it comes to some monster power-ups.. can't think of any right of the top of my head but I think there are some. Also, I need to double check for a feature which will stop it from being push/pulled etc.. while it might be interesting, I don't really think adding the ability to pick up the pile of bones and throw it at someone is a good bit.. it affects balance in an unknown way at the moment. Shouldn't be too bad as it gives pros and cons to both sides.. but unknown without testing.

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July 20th, 2017, 2:53 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Miserable Toad's Smooches is probably the closest thing to Stomp!
I would change Stomp! to:
Quote:
Stomp!: This model is immediately removed from play if an enemy model moves into an adjacent square and spends 2mo to stomp it, otherwise it can not be harmed.

If you don't want to match the style of Smooches you could do:
Quote:
A Model with Stomp! can not be harmed unless an adjacent enemy model spends 2mo to remove it from play.

It removes some grammatical ambiguities. Unless you want to be able to use Stomp on models that allow loot draws I'd move the parts of insignificant you want into stomp and get rid of the confusion all together.
(note: 2mo is the code used be the Super dungeon explore compendium card creator to make the 2 movement point symbol.)

Also don't forget that as a model, bone piles would need to be added to the Shallow Grave spawn point's, as well as any future spawn point to use bone piles, card in the same way shells are on the Rock Pile card


July 20th, 2017, 10:57 pm
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Mini-Boss
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sounds like a good change.. I'll remember to put the symbol in for movement (no offense to anyone but the compendium card creator still needs a bit of work.. it's nice though.. I didn't use it cause I was just wasn't happy with the results).. Also Stomp! is better then Stamp! ^_^

To tell the truth, I forgot about adding it to the spawning point... stupid to forget that and something was bothering me but I did forget ^_^;

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July 21st, 2017, 5:55 am
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Mini-Boss
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ManicMan wrote:
sounds like a good change.. I'll remember to put the symbol in for movement (no offense to anyone but the compendium card creator still needs a bit of work.. it's nice though.. I didn't use it cause I was just wasn't happy with the results).. Also Stomp! is better then Stamp! ^_^

To tell the truth, I forgot about adding it to the spawning point... stupid to forget that and something was bothering me but I did forget ^_^;

I didn't even realize it was Stamp!

I haven't had much luck with the card creator either.


July 21st, 2017, 10:05 am
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Denizen
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The card should have 0 health so it's untargetable, and Stamp! should have the text:
Quote:
Stamp!: An enemy model may remove a Bone Pile from play by occupying its square and spending (2MP) to stamp it into dust.

Something like that.

Insignificant is unneeded since you cannot activate a Bone Pile and Bone piles do not have a skull value nor are they 16-bit, so by the rules destroying them would make them worthless anyway.
You would need to add another rule that states that Bone Piles do not block line of sight as well. I suppose you could use Fly, but that would be kind of weird. I believe there is a keyword that makes models immune to compel effects but I don't remember what it is.

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July 27th, 2017, 12:23 am
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Ninja Corps
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Clawandbyte wrote:
The card should have 0 health so it's untargetable, and Stamp! should have the text:
Quote:
Stamp!: An enemy model may remove a Bone Pile from play by occupying its square and spending (2MP) to stamp it into dust.

Something like that.

Insignificant is unneeded since you cannot activate a Bone Pile and Bone piles do not have a skull value nor are they 16-bit, so by the rules destroying them would make them worthless anyway.
You would need to add another rule that states that Bone Piles do not block line of sight as well. I suppose you could use Fly, but that would be kind of weird. I believe there is a keyword that makes models immune to compel effects but I don't remember what it is.


Just say it's what it is, a token, not a model.


July 27th, 2017, 12:49 am
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Mini-Boss
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.... would you believe, just treating it like a token... erm.. never crossed my mind..
the idea though, was more to make it in-line with other SD bits of the type, mostly Turtle Shells ^_^;

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July 27th, 2017, 9:39 am
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Ninja Corps
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ManicMan wrote:
.... would you believe, just treating it like a token... erm.. never crossed my mind..
the idea though, was more to make it in-line with other SD bits of the type, mostly Turtle Shells ^_^;


I didn't catch up on the whole thread. I thought the goal was ti give them a card and a 3D representation, but not to actually alter the mechanics of that particular element. Because they have a subtle, but important, difference from the shells with one being a model and the other being a token.


July 27th, 2017, 12:01 pm
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