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 PVP Arena Destruction Scenario discussion 
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Minion
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Joined: January 19th, 2013, 10:34 pm
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I played a couple games of Arena the other day. We played the destruction scenario several times and due to a couple issues, found the results unsatisfying each time.

One issue was that of the two win conditions, either destroy the 2 spawners, the mini boss and the hero, or destroy 15 skulls of monsters, destroying the monsters was arguably the only real path. Getting loot is key and killing the monsters gets loot. If you deviate from that to kill their hero or spawn points, it will take several turns to do so and you aren't getting loot for doing it. It meant the games were fairly non interactive. We would just activate our heroes each turn and race to kill minions. The random luck of loot draw will do a lot to determine the winner. The miniboss would hardly ever show up as well and neither of us were going to spawn more minions. After thinking about it more, I think just the win condition of destroy the 2 spawners, hero and miniboss at least once each would have made a better experience for us. Then I'd feel good about using the spawn action to make minions. The miniboss would show up and you'd have to decide when to tackle the hero. Early at the expense of loot before they've looted up? or later when your hero is stronger but so is theirs.

The other issue we found was that treasure buffing spawnpoint minions can be a reward that is way to strong. It becomes to much a king maker. I got +2 RED ARM which nearly shut out any attacks my friend could make each round. He couldn't get loot to counter it and just guaranteed I was going to win. It wasn't a satisfying victory. I'm wondering if limiting it to just loot on the spawn point would be sufficient? It's nice that the upgrade can only come at the expense of a turn by going to the shop, so I think that should remain but then it starts making shopping complicated.. like maybe you have to decide to shop for your hero and miniboss and draw 3 treasure, or you decide to equip your spawn point and draw 3 loot instead? I dunno.

What are other peoples experiences with this scenario?


April 16th, 2017, 8:46 pm
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Minion
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Joined: January 19th, 2013, 10:34 pm
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Overthinking things more, I feel there needs to be more incentive to activate the minions once the heroes have looted up a bit. If we look at just actions taken (which equal attacks and generally how many wounds you can do in a round), 4 skulls will give you 4 on average, so the idea of minion activation is to get an extra action over the hero who has 3 actions. But once the hero gets loot, the value of the heroes actions becomes so much greater.

A quick idea could be that each loot you equip gives you another skull to activate for minions.. or a more balanced way might be that each loot your opponent has equipped gives you another skull to activate (when you activate minions).


April 16th, 2017, 9:54 pm
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Consul
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Joined: June 20th, 2012, 8:00 pm
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Location: Sønderholm, Denmark
I wonder if perhaps the game would simply be better without heroes? Or without loot?

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April 16th, 2017, 10:22 pm
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Minion
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Joined: January 19th, 2013, 10:34 pm
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heh. I'm sorry Goblin-King, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not ;)

DId it sound like I was trying to strangle the fun our? or was that a genuine suggestion?


April 16th, 2017, 11:00 pm
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Consul
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Actually I was being serious! :D
Heroes get kinda overpowered when geared up.

It's like in Warcraft 3. It's all about the heroes. Bring army - get slaughtered by hero.
But if you agree to just park the hero and use the units you build it becomes a whole other (better imo) game.
I think something good could come of a hero not getting loot in arena.

But I'm just theory crafting now :)

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April 16th, 2017, 11:12 pm
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Minion
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I hear ya. A game of just minions could be pretty good. I think even streamlining the movement and attack options down to very simple yet asymmetrical actions would be cool. Like some kind of asymmetrical army building Chess game I guess. Ever play the app Hero Academy? A lot of really good elements there.

I've spent so much time painting all my heroes and minibosses though, it would be a shame to not have a use for them (^_^;

Thinking about the bonus skulls for loot an opponent equips, It might even be enough that it's a one time skull addition. That a player would give their opponent an extra skull token they would bank and choose to use when they activated minions. Treasure could add two or three or something like that. Just another variant I can wish I could playtest. The games we played only went to turn 7 or 8 I think at most.

An alternate (or maybe even supplemental) rule for the extra skull activations could be that a player can't choose the same activation/spawn/shop option twice in a row. So no back to back hero activations. This is not my ideal solution though as it's just forcing the players to use all their models. Encouraging them to do so would be more fun as an experience I think.


April 18th, 2017, 4:44 am
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Ninja Corps
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Joined: May 26th, 2012, 6:17 pm
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Goblin-King wrote:
Actually I was being serious! :D
Heroes get kinda overpowered when geared up.

It's like in Warcraft 3. It's all about the heroes. Bring army - get slaughtered by hero.
But if you agree to just park the hero and use the units you build it becomes a whole other (better imo) game.
I think something good could come of a hero not getting loot in arena.

But I'm just theory crafting now :)


That is an idea I used demoing over the weekend at Sakura Con. I ran destruction but with no loot or treasure (just explaining the item slots) and reduced the goal to destroy the spawn points. Made the game very smooth and fast, especially when dealing new players. The back and forth of the Rock Tops vs Lava Flames was more then enough to enjoy the game.

-ape2020

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April 18th, 2017, 11:21 am
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Bottle Cap

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I ended up equipping with the Champion's Belt onto my ninja's spawning point. (For those who don't know, Champion's Belt is +2 Actions)

That was broken. Totally broken. I ended up getting about 20 actions/ round. I whittled down my opponent's defenses through sheer number of basic attacks. I sacrificed a lot of stuff to get it, tho.


May 11th, 2017, 7:28 pm
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Minion
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I haven't had a chance to play Arena. Since I'm in the UK getting a copy isnt happening. But the above discussed issue were my biggest concern. I really thought the whole point of the custom loot decks were to balance these issues out. But that apparently isn't the case. Be nice to play a SPM game without talk instantly turning to homebru amendments. SPM count yourself lucky your miniature are so nice i'd still buy your stuff If it was just a collectable!!

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May 22nd, 2017, 9:51 pm
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