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 Legends Update Thread 
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Denizen
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
I don't think it's for any lack of 'want' on their part to make this happen. I get the distinct impression looking at their other projects in the last couple years, that this is not only the biggest project they've undertaken, but that what they're trying to deliver is far bigger than they were necessarily prepared for when they started.

That said, I do think they're making a real effort to deliver here. As far as I know Rail Riders Infinite is all shipped worldwide (please correct me if I'm mistaken there), and it sounds like Way of the Fighter is as well (aside from those miniatures people ordered... Which I gather will be produced at the same time as Super Dungeon 2.0 is -that's purely an assumption, and nothing else. At this point, Ninja Division is potentially working through final touches of their StarFindet models for approval (haven't looked at the KS, just estimating development time there) -Super Dungeon hasn't needed new modeling work in quite some time, so that shouldn't be a negative impact that I can imagine.

So, with SPM's other projects winding down, it's time to buckle down and focus on getting this one out. Doing a couple resin models each month to bring in some extra scratch and maybe go towards keeping the lights on might irritate me at some points, but ultimately it's not a bad strategy; I just hope that whatever they roll out next isn't anothef $40 oversized piece. I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing a decent sized new boss though, if that was $40 I might bite.

Resin strategy aside, I think we're at the point where it's kind of "s___ or get off the pot" for SPM. And while I can't read John all too well, Deke clearly doesn't want to let this franchise of it's parent company die. He might be a little over-excitable at times, but I don't see him letting this project come to an end if he can make it happen, it's a passion project for him, and I think he feels some level of conviction about delivering to his fans. That's just my take, I'm going to try and be optimistic that we might see some good things in the near future, maybe some things to get really get excited about. Fingers crossed.



Dude.. you could learn well to say more with less.


March 13th, 2018, 4:23 am
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Minion
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What you don't see in those posts, is how many times I typically write and rewrite specifically to trim it down already. My career requires me to write in a way that leaves absolutely no room for misinterpretation or oversight. That's not a thing you easily switch off.

Also of note, every time you point this out I lose interest in improving or even maintaining the level of brevity that's already here. Nothing against you personally, but you've already made it clear you just skip over most of my posts... So there's really no impact or benefit from where I'm sitting.


March 13th, 2018, 4:38 am
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On a semi-unrelated note, I'm currently studying abroad, and had hoped to come home around the summer to the Legends products arriving. While I'm naive as to think that that will happen (maybe it will, though seems unlikely), at the very least, I do hope that the pre-order for VDay Candy doesn't take forever to come out as well.

Especially as when the model arrives and I assemble it right away, I have a "special container" that I bought a few months ago and was in the process cleaning off the rust and some of the old paint. Was mainly for storing the Takoshi University crossover minis, but I'm now going to use it for any loose SDE minis. I won't say what the container is quite yet, as I'm definitely excited to share pics in the appropriate thread (or make a new one) once I get back and follow through with giving it the new paint job.

Also, RE:TheHandsomeDan
I know you mentioned about them (possibly) needing to raise extra money through the new $40 mini. I realized how perfect of an opportunity it would be to make crossover cards for their existing Ninja All-Stars (Heroes and Ronin), as that way, they don't need to create new minis from scratch. Maybe they could charge a $1 for each card, have a discounted option for buying all the cards, and mainly allow people to buy both the individual minis and the new cards to go with them. I don't own Ninja All-Stars, so I wouldn't buy these Ronin figures. HOWEVER, if they came out with those cards, I would definitely pick up some that I'd really love to play with as heroes (or maybe even mini bosses).


March 13th, 2018, 10:37 am
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Denizen
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i'll just point out again that $40 for the tusk raider is a comparable price to what other companies charge for a Figure of that size in resin, and they are often bigger companies.. If they are doing it to raise money, it's a loss leader.

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March 13th, 2018, 10:45 am
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Minion
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ManicMan wrote:
i'll just point out again that $40 for the tusk raider is a comparable price to what other companies charge for a Figure of that size in resin, and they are often bigger companies.. If they are doing it to raise money, it's a loss leader.


Already discussed in detail why it is in fact <I>not</I> a 'loss leader's as you stated. Probably just last page still.

As for the cards idea mentioned by a previous user... I really like that actually. Ninja All Stars already had a pretty big crossover product sold, but they could fill in more characters from that franchise with cheap card packs for it; or they could move to add support for a variety of other titles like Rail Riders Infinite... God I want to use those in SDE.


March 13th, 2018, 11:33 am
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
ManicMan wrote:
i'll just point out again that $40 for the tusk raider is a comparable price to what other companies charge for a Figure of that size in resin, and they are often bigger companies.. If they are doing it to raise money, it's a loss leader.


Already discussed in detail why it is in fact <I>not</I> a 'loss leader's as you stated. Probably just last page still.

As for the cards idea mentioned by a previous user... I really like that actually. Ninja All Stars already had a pretty big crossover product sold, but they could fill in more characters from that franchise with cheap card packs for it; or they could move to add support for a variety of other titles like Rail Riders Infinite... God I want to use those in SDE.


Unless they made the characters closer to gunners like Princess Emerald*, I could maybe see it. But I don't know man. Wild-west sci-fi characters mixed with medieval fantasy ones I wouldn't consider to be the best combination... The ninjas, however, already have their own special crossover product, so it would be a shame to not push for more of that in the future. Dark Kitsune especially I would love to see as another Rogue in action.

*Something separate on my mind:
From what I understand, there are 5 princesses total. 2 are already available from current products, 1 is part of the Kickstarter rewards for Legends (I believe...?), and one is theorized to be the new boss for the Midnight Tower.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4788
Wonder if we'll ever get to see minis for the one with gauntlets and Amethyst as a hero.

Image


March 13th, 2018, 11:56 am
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Minion
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Amethyst is both the KS Legends reward, and the boss of the Midnight Tower. Some form of mind control or such.

Sapphire is said to be studing magic under the Dwarves in Frostbyte Peaks so its almost a shoe-in she is in the Halls of the Lich lord level pack, if it ever releases.

No word on Citrine, even though she would look cool in mini form.


Also...$1 cards....yeah wouldnt try that. Immediately be compared to Magic/YuGiOh with their 15 per $3 pack, or 150-180 for $50 card games, and off we go with the "Ugh...SPM is a ripoff/ponzi scheme/thieves/pyramid scheme/scamscamscamscam" we see everytime they do anything, the Walrus-rider included: it is the same price for comparable resin minis, have checked myself which made swallow my belief it was far too overpriced .


March 13th, 2018, 1:00 pm
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Minion
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Darkmoonowl wrote:
TheHandsomeDan wrote:
ManicMan wrote:
i'll just point out again that $40 for the tusk raider is a comparable price to what other companies charge for a Figure of that size in resin, and they are often bigger companies.. If they are doing it to raise money, it's a loss leader.


Already discussed in detail why it is in fact <I>not</I> a 'loss leader's as you stated. Probably just last page still.

As for the cards idea mentioned by a previous user... I really like that actually. Ninja All Stars already had a pretty big crossover product sold, but they could fill in more characters from that franchise with cheap card packs for it; or they could move to add support for a variety of other titles like Rail Riders Infinite... God I want to use those in SDE.


Unless they made the characters closer to gunners like Princess Emerald*, I could maybe see it. But I don't know man. Wild-west sci-fi characters mixed with medieval fantasy ones I wouldn't consider to be the best combination... The ninjas, however, already have their own special crossover product, so it would be a shame to not push for more of that in the future. Dark Kitsune especially I would love to see as another Rogue in action.

*Something separate on my mind:
From what I understand, there are 5 princesses total. 2 are already available from current products, 1 is part of the Kickstarter rewards for Legends (I believe...?), and one is theorized to be the new boss for the Midnight Tower.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4788
Wonder if we'll ever get to see minis for the one with gauntlets and Amethyst as a hero.

Image


Haha, I think when you factor in that they've already crossed over the very sci-fi Twilight Knight, a walrus mount, a bunch of ninjas, modern era characters from Way of the Fighter (whenever those minis ship), AND three University students in pleated skirts... Debating whether a thing really belongs in a high fantasy setting really becomes a point of semantics. I mean, is pretty hard to argue that any of the crossover things, and even a few things already in the central franchise itself technically "belong" in a high fantasy setting. But in a way, that's almost becoming a charm for the series, in that it doesn't necessarily matter all that much, there are any number of 'in fiction' stories and explanations one can use to make that work with a quick hand wave. I'm not normally one for mixing and matching nonsensically, but I think there's genuinely capacity here, and I think that RRI's baddies could make for some fun enemy gangs too. Besides, it might give SPM an easy cross promotion if they sold some future/Western themed tiles along with the crossover tiles for SDE -sell those as a pack, and people who never considered RRI would probably look to snag a copy, and maybe a few RRI owners would look to pick up SDE in the future. That sort of thing can work wonders for less cost. I'm not suggesting they sell individual cards here, but packs, perhaps by game.


March 13th, 2018, 1:06 pm
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Minion
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Holy Cross wrote:
TheHandsomeDan wrote:
I don't think it's for any lack of 'want' on their part to make this happen. I get the distinct impression looking at their other projects in the last couple years, that this is not only the biggest project they've undertaken, but that what they're trying to deliver is far bigger than they were necessarily prepared for when they started.

That said, I do think they're making a real effort to deliver here. As far as I know Rail Riders Infinite is all shipped worldwide (please correct me if I'm mistaken there), and it sounds like Way of the Fighter is as well (aside from those miniatures people ordered... Which I gather will be produced at the same time as Super Dungeon 2.0 is -that's purely an assumption, and nothing else. At this point, Ninja Division is potentially working through final touches of their StarFindet models for approval (haven't looked at the KS, just estimating development time there) -Super Dungeon hasn't needed new modeling work in quite some time, so that shouldn't be a negative impact that I can imagine.

So, with SPM's other projects winding down, it's time to buckle down and focus on getting this one out. Doing a couple resin models each month to bring in some extra scratch and maybe go towards keeping the lights on might irritate me at some points, but ultimately it's not a bad strategy; I just hope that whatever they roll out next isn't anothef $40 oversized piece. I wouldn't necessarily mind seeing a decent sized new boss though, if that was $40 I might bite.

Resin strategy aside, I think we're at the point where it's kind of "s___ or get off the pot" for SPM. And while I can't read John all too well, Deke clearly doesn't want to let this franchise of it's parent company die. He might be a little over-excitable at times, but I don't see him letting this project come to an end if he can make it happen, it's a passion project for him, and I think he feels some level of conviction about delivering to his fans. That's just my take, I'm going to try and be optimistic that we might see some good things in the near future, maybe some things to get really get excited about. Fingers crossed.



Dude.. you could learn well to say more with less.


Son't listen to him Dan, your posts are fine, it's not your fault if certain folks don't have the attention span to read. ^_^

As for the cards idea, I like it for the most part, I would just hope they don't just re-skin other cards again... that seems to be their current tactic to release things without being bery creative >:

I'm surprised they never released alternate cards for Rocktops and Fireflow, since there were SO many of the 1st edition ones flowing around the market and on their webstore. Could you imagine "frost-tops" or "Reef tops" (Clockwork Cove)? How about an alternate "Frost" version of Ser Snapjaw or the Kobold Ogre to go wit the Frost Kobolds?! There would've been alot of potential!

I would bet the next resin pieces to either be Hoarfang, or one of the Princesses. If I saw Princess Sappire though, I'd be worried since she was rumored to be in "Halls of the Lich King" and to me, that would mean they might not be rolling out things anymore...

That all said, id anyone notice the "Spites" from the Legends Kickstarter aren't in "Pet Parade" as Pets OR Creeps?


March 13th, 2018, 1:22 pm
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Minion
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prodigal_dreamer wrote:
As for the cards idea, I like it for the most part, I would just hope they don't just re-skin other cards again... that seems to be their current tactic to release things without being bery creative >:

I'm surprised they never released alternate cards for Rocktops and Fireflow, since there were SO many of the 1st edition ones flowing around the market and on their webstore. Could you imagine "frost-tops" or "Reef tops" (Clockwork Cove)? How about an alternate "Frost" version of Ser Snapjaw or the Kobold Ogre to go wit the Frost Kobolds?! There would've been alot of potential!

I would bet the next resin pieces to either be Hoarfang, or one of the Princesses. If I saw Princess Sappire though, I'd be worried since she was rumored to be in "Halls of the Lich King" and to me, that would mean they might not be rolling out things anymore...

That all said, id anyone notice the "Spites" from the Legends Kickstarter aren't in "Pet Parade" as Pets OR Creeps?


Hm... I'm not sure if you mean companies in general have been taking a lazy approach, or if you're referring to something with SPM. I know that we got the mistmourn coast, which repurposed some fire themed miniatures as mist... I haven't looked too closely at the cards themselves though to see how similar or different they may be. My opinion on the recycled models has actually changed since release: initially it seemed like a lazy way to clear out some materials without needing to invest the time in crafting new 3D models. Now that I've started painting them, I appreciate the visual difference between the two groups as being very different aesthetically on the board. I would imagine the opinions vary with a number of people based on whether they paint as well.

Since 2.0 will feature many of the same enemy types from 1.0, with new and different models/poses, I wouldn't mind alternate art/character versions along the lines of what Mistmourn coast did, just to add more variety to the table. But I also don't want to see them do anything else to delay the product further. Perhaps they could offer a "pack" of alternate enemy/hero cards that effectively includes three or four palette swapped options for everything in the new 2.0 boxes -the sheer content variety this would provide could imaginably justify a $20 price tag, but this would make more sense AFTER the new Arcade and Classic modes have shipped out.

I hadn't noticed the missing spites, though I could swear I could remember some kind of small uproar over the creeps and/or treasure chests being turned into tokens in the new editions. If so, then I'm glad I've got the 1.0 and FK box for the additional plastic chest models, haha.

I think that based on the number of heroes you typically use in one game, versus the number of enemies and minibosses used, I would really like to see some more variety options for baddies than what we currently have. I mean, I literally have more than 40 heroic characters, and nowhere near that number of gang/miniboss types to maintain variety. Selling a resin gang would probably be cost prohibitive. But a boss or miniboss could probably be done within reason.


March 13th, 2018, 1:44 pm
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sprites aren't pet parade based. pet parade only comes with Ghosts (due to small update) and Squggly Creeps. Sprites are basically like a lot of creeps. Either Boss related or Tile. In this case, as they are Midnight Tower related, Retail would probably put them with the Midnight Tower Tiles.

As for Tokens instead of plastic models.. again, see Forgotten King. They were Designed to be Tokens in that, but the KS unlocked them as Models. While I would like Model add-ons, Tokens not only do the job but they better do the job of keeping the base sets to a 'affordable' price which is what people wanted. When the original set came out, it took me a little while to get it cause it was quite pricey due to all the extra overloaded stuff compared to other starter boxes.

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March 13th, 2018, 1:49 pm
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:

Haha, I think when you factor in that they've already crossed over the very sci-fi Twilight Knight,


TK is definitely the version from the main Kingdom Death universe which is grim dark low magic highest tech crossbow. more in line with dark fantasy settings (aka Dark Souls) then sci-fi. Of course there is a sci-fi version of TK but like Candy she is KD mascot and thus will show up in many incarnations.

As for Princess Amethyst and Midnight Queen... SPM protest hard that they are separate characters. Of course many think this is a bluff or maybe the Midnight Queen is the Princesses Mother brainwashed by the Dark Consul!

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March 13th, 2018, 2:09 pm
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Denizen
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
What you don't see in those posts, is how many times I typically write and rewrite specifically to trim it down already. My career requires me to write in a way that leaves absolutely no room for misinterpretation or oversight. That's not a thing you easily switch off.

Also of note, every time you point this out I lose interest in improving or even maintaining the level of brevity that's already here. Nothing against you personally, but you've already made it clear you just skip over most of my posts... So there's really no impact or benefit from where I'm sitting.


Sorry, it’s not intended as a jab. I understand being a creature of habit. I’ve found that the more words you use, the less you communicate. I also work in a n environment where people want the bottom line up front.

I think you have a lot of well thought out points that could reach more readers if your posts were a bit easier to read.

Side note to that, my wife is a lawyer so I can understand what you mean by having to cover every possible base when writing :?


March 13th, 2018, 2:16 pm
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IIRC, SPM posted in the past about heavily avoiding doing crossover cards (beyond what is out there) for NAS and RRI so those IP's/games can stand on their own AND so SDE fans would not feel obligated to buy all the models for play. I thought the elemental affinity was a clever way of letting folks use their NAS clan models or rely on just the base super ninja ambush box and didn't want to buy 6 clan boxes. I do love the clan oni sculpts and if the clan boxes ever drop to my price point to snag them, I would consider grabbing them to have a devoted oni mini-boss per affinity (although I'd love if they had hero stats, too :)). I think they'd fit well into SDE:L, too, but I'm still waiting on trying my hand at writing until we get more materials.

As for RRI, I think it was mentioned that they considered the game too western themed. A lot of the minis I think were KS exclusive, too, and I saw some of them on ebay for heavily markd up prices o.O, so I'd want to stay away from that.

The crossovers in general are no longer intended to stay in the fantasy theme (as shown with Siege of the Citadel where both heroes and mobs will have futuristic guns), but then they'll be deemed exclusive so again, folks won't feel like they need to get everything. I wouldn't be surprised if the mobs in SotC end up having the same stats as a future SDE release which is what they've been doing with a lot of the crossover heroes -- just using the same hero cards as existing, which I think is an excellent way to do it b/c I know a lot of my friends have preference for male/female versions of a hero and this avoids 'needing' to do alt gender heroes for everything.

This also let folks that wanted to be creative to just go ahead and create their own hero cards for their favorite models, which I think there is a thread of folks making cool NAS cards already.


March 13th, 2018, 2:53 pm
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i am personally expecting Citrine may come with Clockwork Cover, whenever that releases.

As for Amethyst = Midnight Queen, I remember SPM said they weren't the same, despite the obvious similarities, so I think there was a theory that the Midnight Queen was an evil reflection. Not sure how that works out for Daemonus, though.


March 13th, 2018, 2:54 pm
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Darkmoonowl wrote:
I realized how perfect of an opportunity it would be to make crossover cards for their existing Ninja All-Stars (Heroes and Ronin), as that way, they don't need to create new minis from scratch. Maybe they could charge a $1 for each card, have a discounted option for buying all the cards, and mainly allow people to buy both the individual minis and the new cards to go with them. I don't own Ninja All-Stars, so I wouldn't buy these Ronin figures. HOWEVER, if they came out with those cards, I would definitely pick up some that I'd really love to play with as heroes (or maybe even mini bosses).

If they decide to repurpose all the Ninja All Stars, I will buy them all. I may eventually buy them all anyway, but that would definitely do it for me.

Oh and alternate cards for Roxor's minions seems like an absurdly obvious move - lots of us already have the original Roxor, and passed on the new one, but you give me a reason and I'll pick up the new box.

Also totally on board with alternates for the mini bosses. I have two ogres now and another one coming. If I buy backup FK boxes (which I intend to do), I'll have multiples of those mini bosses, too. Just doing alternate minions seems like missing an opportunity.

Interestingly, I would pass on RRI crossovers. I don't want cowboy spacemen in my Super Dungeon any more than I wanted Siege of the Citadel. Ninjas make sense in SDE. Train robbers do not.

Hell, they could print alternate SDE cards out the wazoo and just sell stuff they already made!


March 13th, 2018, 2:56 pm
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I have several copies of the pirate captain mini boss and have painted one up as the box, one as a ghost and the other I will, eventually make into an alive version to use as a hero. So I’d definitely consider multiple mini bosses if there were alt art cards :)


March 13th, 2018, 3:01 pm
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InfinityMax wrote:
Interestingly, I would pass on RRI crossovers. I don't want cowboy spacemen in my Super Dungeon any more than I wanted Siege of the Citadel. Ninjas make sense in SDE. Train robbers do not.

Hell, they could print alternate SDE cards out the wazoo and just sell stuff they already made!


Yeah, I tried making Lawbot monster cards for SDE...had to try downplay the ranged weapons as a set of monsters who sit back and gunline you isnt very much fun.


March 13th, 2018, 3:45 pm
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Danteire wrote:
Amethyst is both the KS Legends reward, and the boss of the Midnight Tower. Some form of mind control or such.

Sapphire is said to be studing magic under the Dwarves in Frostbyte Peaks so its almost a shoe-in she is in the Halls of the Lich lord level pack, if it ever releases.

No word on Citrine, even though she would look cool in mini form.


Also...$1 cards....yeah wouldnt try that. Immediately be compared to Magic/YuGiOh with their 15 per $3 pack, or 150-180 for $50 card games, and off we go with the "Ugh...SPM is a ripoff/ponzi scheme/thieves/pyramid scheme/scamscamscamscam" we see everytime they do anything, the Walrus-rider included: it is the same price for comparable resin minis, have checked myself which made swallow my belief it was far too overpriced .


It was a suggestion. Not a great one, mind you, but one that at the very least would get me to pick up some Ninja All-Stars minis for SDE.

EDIT: For everyone mentioning how SPM wanted to avoid doing crossover cards for the game, my argument is more geared toward some of the separately sold ronin/heroes. It would definitely be a lot of work to do cards for each clan, and so with some individual models, it would be fairly doable. That, and also would be nice to have some additional heroes that go along with their current NAS crossover.

As for RDI, I again just am not seeing it. Yes, it wasn't great to broadly argue how sci-fi wouldn't mix with fantasy, but really, I am somewhat iffy about the inclusion of robots and futuristic technology being incorporated into the game that's more centered around magic. Not saying that there's absolutely no room for that sorta stuff to be adapted to it, but I'm not fully on board with the idea...

And wow, glad to see how active this thread got within the last several hours compared to the past week alone.


March 13th, 2018, 4:00 pm
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Well, technically speaking, elemental affinity technically lets you multiply the 3 heroes, 1 mini boss, and linked spawn point that comes with the super ninja ambush to be able to be used with any of the NAS clans and/or hero models.

What it maybe comes down to is if you want a hero card with unique statline/abilities and art than what's been provided. I mean, for the alt profiles for other mobs, SPM could technically do something like elemental affinity or you could just apply elemental affinity to a spawn points mobs and see how that goes.

I mean, I get it. Ultimately, my opinion is that if you really like the models for NAS, SPM has already provided a way to play those in SDE and semi-customize them through elemental affinity that I thought was pretty elegant. There's nothing that prevents you from using proxy models for any of the hero profiles, either, which is what my friends do when they want to use a painted model and it works fine. And given the way that I think all the new crossover heroes will just be reusing existing hero profiles, I think this is the best of both worlds where folks that don't want crossover have a SDE oriented product to buy and folks that do like crossovers have an official crossover card that can be used.

That being said, I did just buy 2 NAS clans b/c they were heavily discounted to my pricepoint, but I also know that they'll be far down on the painting priority queue.


March 13th, 2018, 6:08 pm
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