View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently November 18th, 2017, 10:36 pm



Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
 How would you have designed Legends? 
Author Message
Mini-Boss
User avatar

Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 8:15 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Ohio
I know I'm not the only one who is a little disappointed with what Legends is shaping up to be. I still love Super Dungeon though, and I don't want to just up and sell my whole collection. That's why I want to think of some ways I can homebrew a Legends system myself, inspired by the original pitch of the project. If anyone else wants to share their ideas, great! I'm just getting some ideas out of my head now, but this could turn into an actual project for me.

First off I want to tell you how I imagined Legends. It was going to be an expansion to Super Dungeon, and would be compatible with everything thus far. You would use all the cards, boards, rules, etc. The difference is that it would allow you to play themed games in a campaign that allow your hero to get more powerful. That's basically it. So here are a few breakdowns on key gameplay elements I would have.

Loot and Treasure: During each encounter, you will gain Loot and Treasure similarly to how you do in a regular game. Loot might be distributed differently, instead of just killing monsters though. At the end of the encounter, each hero has to discard all the equipment gained. Each Loot discarded gains them 1 crystal, while each Treasure gains them 3 crystals. The color of the crystal gained depends on the slot the card equips to. I liked this mechanic because it sets a cap on how powerful heroes can get. Each hero basically starts 'fresh' at the beginning of an encounter, so you don't have to worry about them steamrolling all the enemies.

Crystals: There are 5 colored crystal types. You get Sapphire, Ruby, Citrine, and Emerald crystals mostly from disenchanting your equipment at the end of an encounter. There are also rare Amethyst crystals, which are few in number. Heroes will gain one Amethyst Crystal just for completing the encounter, but can get more by completing optional objectives. You can also take one of each other colored crystal to exchange for an Amethyst Crystal, or break down one Amethyst Crystal into 1 each of the other 4 types. The regular 4 colored crystals are used to buy Skills and Items. Amethyst crystals are used to Rank up mainly, but may be used for other things too.

So basically my idea is to make Amethyst crystals act as "experience" for the heroes. They are given out steadily after each encounter, so heroes will always have a trickle coming in to Rank Up. They will never get so much to "break" the game and go straight from B to XS in a few adventures. The other 4 types simply act like currency to buy Skills and Items.

Rank: Heroes all start at Rank B, and can spend Amethyst Crystals to Rank up. All heroes share the same Rank, so they all advance together. I think it's better to assign the party a Rank than to have to fiddle with what Heroes are what Rank. Heroes can only buy Skills that are the same Rank or lower than theirs.

Skills: Skill cards are gained by buying them with Crystals. Skills will grant heroes either an increase to their stats, a new keyword, or a new ability. Most Skills will have a crystal affinity requirement that needs to be met. For example, one might require a hero have at least 1 Citrine crystal to learn the skill. More specialized skills might require a hero to match the affinity perfectly. Here are a few examples of what I mean.

Speedy
Rank B
No Requirement
Hero gains +1 to their movement.
Cost: 3 Sapphire

Berserk
Rank B
1 Citrine Crystal
Hero gains Berserk
Berserk: Once during a hero's activation, they may make one basic melee attack costing no action points.
Cost: 4 Citrine

Leaping Strike
Rank B
1 Citrine or Emerald Crystal
Hero gains the following ability:
2 Red Actions - Range 1 Melee - Leaping Strike: Leap
Leap: Choose an enemy model within 3 squares and line of sight. Place this model adjacent to the enemy model before making the attack.
Cost: 2 Emerald, 1 Citrine

Well Traveled
Rank B
1 Ruby or Emerald Crystal
This Hero may add 1W to any knowledge test that they are required to take.
Cost: 2 Ruby

As heroes are able to Rank up, they gain access to more powerful Skills. As you see, you have some variety with being able to increase your stats, or give you new abilities. Even some Skills might be useful for noncombat encounters too. Again, this would take a long time to try to implement. I can see why they abandoned this idea to go with a much simpler one. Still, I think it can be done. With all the stuff Legends has now, I think there is a good framework of simple skills to work into things.

That's all for now. I'll post more when I have time to go on. I'd still love to hear all of your thoughts on what could have been done differently.


November 10th, 2017, 3:25 am
Profile
Denizen
User avatar

Joined: April 16th, 2014, 6:41 pm
Posts: 273
I think what you suggest can work rather well in Explore/Arcade. Loot converted into crystals and group can purchase new skills using credits after game. Basically linked battles with level up choices. The skills in Hero book can potentially be converted into this system.

Personally I feel current Legends system is more interesting. Play time is less and it has story elements. Not just intro/outro. This said I have a few doubts about Legends direction (no proper AI / monster actions in battle may need to be RPG'ed / method to balance of different hero count and issues of quick hero knockdowns). I think the end result is good, but not designing the game around the above things in brackets means (at least for me) the game won't live to its full potential.


November 10th, 2017, 6:53 am
Profile
Minion
User avatar

Joined: April 9th, 2016, 8:11 am
Posts: 103
I see good ideas here!

I will follow this topic for sure...

Things coming upfront to my mind :

- I would keep a certain form of classes or job to drive what a given character can choose

- In a given class/job, I would allow a more piece by piece special actions building. e.g. First time, the player buy "melee 3" as prime benefit of the brand new special action of his hero (instead the regular melee 1 it has). Then later he will add it the Slow rule (but it could have been Fire or any other Status allowed to his class), and later he will replace melee 3 by Lance 3 and so on.


November 10th, 2017, 10:26 am
Profile
Bottle Cap
User avatar

Joined: October 10th, 2017, 10:21 pm
Posts: 19
I think I would've just made it purely equipment based with higher tiers

Sapphire being lowest tier
Ruby Being next
Emerald Tier after that
Citrine tier after that
and Amethyst tier as the highest

base attacks would have also been loot based, as base stats would be used purely for challenges while attacking would be printed on the weapon loot. Every hero in play would have starter loot and they could later get better gear via crafting or finding.

Equipment would be loot, treasure, and relics. Loot would just be basic equipment, but treasure and relics would be acquired only via quests or special circumstances.

I have a pretty clear vision, but i would wanna see the finished legends product first.


November 10th, 2017, 3:25 pm
Profile
Minion
User avatar

Joined: May 24th, 2015, 11:32 pm
Posts: 144
This is gonna be long because I did actually design something. Since I made a campaign for casual players who have never touched D&D or anything like it in their lives, here's what I did:

I started off all heroes with 3 hearts and 2 blue dice in each stat, with 1 action per turn and a base of 4 movement, then had players pick from a list of races, each coming with a bonus, and a list of classes, each coming with a bonus.

For instance, a dwarf player got extra ARM die, while a rogue got an extra DEX die.

Then they picked a single ability for their class. Because they are noobs, I made the options limited: 4 classes (fighter, protector, mage, and rogue) and 3 options for abilities for that class. (I.e. Protector can compel, iron halo, or wave heal 1.)

I didn't change any of the monster stats from their cards.

Loot has to be bought (with a few exceptions) and is separated into good, better, best tiers for cost. Treasure is event-specific.

I wrote scenarios and encounters, some of which include full spawning points and multiple tiles like a regular game of SDE, while others have things like looking for a key while navigating a tile full of traps, or plucking up plants with a random chance of pulling up evil mushroom monsters. Each encounter comes with a set amount of experience, and when they level up at 100 exp they pick a stat to upgrade.

(And shout-out to the SDE card creator for making it look like my hero cards belong in the game.) :D

So far, they're enjoying it, and I love being DM. If I were Soda Pop, I'd be getting these scenarios out to backers to test difficulty and to tweak numbers (maybe monsters need an extra armor or heart as heroes level or something) as quickly as possible, as there are things like, one encounter my heroes slaughtered everything easily, and it wasn't as fun for heroes or for me.

The story follows Crystalia lore as well as I know it, plus fluff from my own imagination. So far my heroes spent most of their time in the Fae Wood, and they've teamed up with Emerald before without knowing she's a princess. They branched out to help Marie Claude keep zombies away from the Grog and Gruel inn, then headed into Glauerdoom Moor to "rescue" a woman from some witches, who turned out to be Succubus Vandella in disguise. But they're afraid of taking on any more undead, so they're off to help a farmer who's been having trouble with kobolds. I am excited for the day they discover Em is a princess, for pitting Beatrix and Von Drakk against each other and having them pick a side, for having them investigate the Cult of the Burning Star, and for all the other wonderful adventures that have yet to be written.


November 10th, 2017, 7:54 pm
Profile
Mini-Boss
User avatar

Joined: September 2nd, 2012, 8:15 pm
Posts: 860
Location: Ohio
Okay, so I was working on an idea for encounters. I hate that it's so generic right now. I really wanted something more in depth and objective based. I used Descent as my inspiration, so here is a rough idea of what I want to accomplish.

https://imgur.com/a/5fLPf

Hopefully that image works. Basically it's the first page of an encounter. It lays out what monsters you need, and any special rules. Loot is gained by searching Loot piles instead of killing monsters. It's far from perfect, but it's a good idea of what I was hoping Legends to be. What do you all think?


November 13th, 2017, 6:16 pm
Profile
Bottle Cap

Joined: November 13th, 2017, 6:10 pm
Posts: 2
I'm kind of torn on how I would do legends. I think they missed the mark a bit on the draft they have right now. I want a system where I can either use pre-generated, out of the box heroes - or you can create your own character, and go on adventures from there.

Char Gen:
-Have a master list of races and racial traits. Players select a race and select a trait.

-Have affinity selection.

-Have archetypes - in essence they had already done that, but I think it needs more options. Each character in SDE has some kind of unique feature - so teasing those out and aligning them to archetypes and allowing selection between one of two abilities to start would be nice.

-Base dice in stats is determined by Race, Affinity and Archetype.

-Starting a fresh char results in something less powerful than an out of the box hero, but will be more

Char Advancement:
-Have some kind of XP currency. You could use crystals and reagents, or you could have just xp and keep crystals as a separate economy for crafting only.

-Have dice and abilities cost a certain amount of XP currency (and if going the crystal route, maybe have some abilities require reagents). Have the cost be determined by how many/what kind of dice a character already has, and the character's affinity. This way, characters can breakout of their archetype, it's just more expensive/time consuming to do this.

Adventures:
-Make it so that adventures are based off of suggested hero xp currency (e.g. an adventure for 4 heroes of 500 crystals/xp whatever).

-Random adventure tables. I'm a big fan of Arcade mode (I already DM tons of games, I sometimes just want to play and not worry about anyone having to run) - so something where I can roll adversaries, objectives, and basic plot elements. The rolls on the table would be effected by the suggested crystals for the game.

-Rewards for adventures that incorporate the loot and treasure deck draws, completed objectives, and so on. Keeping eq from adventure to adventure would be too powerful, so I like the idea of paying crystals to create permenant items, or having to pay an upkeep of crystals to keep items between adventures.

There's a fine line between modularity, crunch, and record keeping to straddle. I think SDE invites a long form game with RPG elements, but I also think that what they have right now feels too different from core SDE with insufficient options considering how different it is.


November 13th, 2017, 8:05 pm
Profile
Bottle Cap
User avatar

Joined: October 10th, 2017, 10:21 pm
Posts: 19
eternaldream wrote:
Okay, so I was working on an idea for encounters. I hate that it's so generic right now. I really wanted something more in depth and objective based. I used Descent as my inspiration, so here is a rough idea of what I want to accomplish.

https://imgur.com/a/5fLPf

Hopefully that image works. Basically it's the first page of an encounter. It lays out what monsters you need, and any special rules. Loot is gained by searching Loot piles instead of killing monsters. It's far from perfect, but it's a good idea of what I was hoping Legends to be. What do you all think?


Now is this purely 1 vs Many or does this include "arcade" rules?


November 14th, 2017, 3:32 am
Profile
Denizen
User avatar

Joined: April 16th, 2014, 6:41 pm
Posts: 273
eternaldream wrote:
Okay, so I was working on an idea for encounters. I hate that it's so generic right now. I really wanted something more in depth and objective based. I used Descent as my inspiration, so here is a rough idea of what I want to accomplish.

https://imgur.com/a/5fLPf

Hopefully that image works. Basically it's the first page of an encounter. It lays out what monsters you need, and any special rules. Loot is gained by searching Loot piles instead of killing monsters. It's far from perfect, but it's a good idea of what I was hoping Legends to be. What do you all think?

Looks very nice to me! Even if heroes lose the scenario, story will continue slightly differently.


November 14th, 2017, 6:38 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 9 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by STSoftware.