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Denizen
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Joined: April 16th, 2014, 6:41 pm
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I also think minions should have a fair chance against the heroes. The latest test game for me as a consul was a little boring because I wasn't able to kill any hero until boss spawned. So I actually hoped the challenge for the heroes would have been higher by not allowing them sharing rolled hearts/potions to any other hero than the active one. Also AOE potions/attacks help getting more loot. Of course consul should try to deny this.

The game took a little too long though. Yes we had over analyzer playing, but if Justin gets into the 2 tile game skipping the first one that might work for me the best.


July 16th, 2017, 3:03 am
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Minion
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Maybe it's just the circles I run with, but it's all too easy to shut down the heroes with monsters, and i'm no slouch at tactical board games.

I remember when one of my more tactical friends and I played original FK (back when you could choose where the spawner goes and it was one mini boss per spawn point). The term he used was "veritable meat grinder" and granted this was BEFORE the Princess coin bloat where if a hero dies you keep going. I was the consul playing just standarf FK and he managed to get through 2 tiles in a 4 hero game; took out Boris and Trent, but i had been building up tile 3 full of monsters. All it took was 1 Wisp and Keally and all of a sudden, there went his Minstrel; Wisp pulled into the room where he was gunned down by hordes of Kodama and chimera. And it kept happening, lather rinse repeat. Keally kept her aura up to prevent long range snipiing and tagged heroes with poison to trigger kodama virulent. With the wisps luring his heroes in time and again, he just called it. Didn;t see the point of spending upwards of 3 more hours just to watch his heroes die, which was ultimately the point: There comes a point in the game where you know which side is going to win. That's why i call the "mooks" the potatoes, they should present the illusion of challenge rather than just stop gameplay all together. The point is to beat the boss, not beat the minions.


July 16th, 2017, 4:43 am
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Denizen
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insider714 wrote:
With the wisps luring his heroes in time and again, he just called it. Didn;t see the point of spending upwards of 3 more hours just to watch his heroes die, which was ultimately the point: There comes a point in the game where you know which side is going to win


never play a highly tactical game like Chess with this guy. seams to have a lack of long range planning and quick thinking which are the mark of tactical thinkers. He saw you were building up monsters by damaging spawning points, yet didn't take this into account. Seamed to decide to run into the fray instead of waiting for them to have to come to him.


July 16th, 2017, 6:51 am
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Denizen
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'mooks' to present the 'illusion of difficulty? Well in that case our group will never play again , they are all highly experienced tatical war gamer \rpg'ers with over 20 years of experience each.

As Consul I expect to be punished for any errors I make , in return they expect me to bring the meat grinder.


July 16th, 2017, 9:40 am
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Minion
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Yeah I really don't want to play a 3 hour game with the "illusion of difficulty"... waves after waves of harmless minions? I'll pass.

I shelved my FK Arcade especially because of this, it was just wave after wave of crappy minions that offered no challenge, then a big bad boss that could wipe the entire party on a lucky roll.

The new rule set is way more balanced. I'd much rather have the minions give heroes a beating, and a final showdown with the boss to seal their fate... It also makes for interesting reversals this way and a much greater sense of accomplishment in the end.


July 16th, 2017, 12:03 pm
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Ninja Corps
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amarento wrote:
The new rule set is way more balanced. I'd much rather have the minions give heroes a beating, and a final showdown with the boss to seal their fate... It also makes for interesting reversals this way and a much greater sense of accomplishment in the end.


Having the Easy and Hard mode cards available is also a great thing to expand the challenge, or get new people introduced.


July 16th, 2017, 12:10 pm
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While SPM move slowly, another companies presents Kickstarter campaigns with 16-bit JRPG inspired tabletop games. Meeples instead of plastic miniatures. Anyway, the gaps left by SPM due the slow capability of react on market going to be fullfilled by another companies. Sad...

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July 16th, 2017, 3:46 pm
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Denizen
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Soda pop wasn't the first, won't be the last.
A lot of games (board and digital) can become better then they stop.. like TV shows.. Quit while you are ahead, and not gonna into the really bad period...boy.. the list of things I can give about that...

so really.. nothing much has changed..


July 16th, 2017, 4:11 pm
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Minion
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ManicMan wrote:
never play a highly tactical game like Chess with this guy. seams to have a lack of long range planning and quick thinking which are the mark of tactical thinkers. He saw you were building up monsters by damaging spawning points, yet didn't take this into account. Seamed to decide to run into the fray instead of waiting for them to have to come to him.


I don't really think that's a fair assessment of someone's skill for someone you don't know, he's very tactical. The thing is, that was one of the fallacies of the consul power creep: because you don't have to cooperate with other players, it's easier to organize; one headstrong player can kill a team on the party's side

As an example, same friend was the consul this time and I played as the heroes with 2 other friends. Even via my instructions, my other team- mates (we'll call my team mates Moe and Curly, and the consul player and aforementioned friend Rolf), Moe refused to get on board, attacking overly- strong units like the fire beetle beefed up by an Ironscale (mind you, this was 1.0 and Rolf was fielding Kobolds with a hint of fireflow). Moe was getting increasingly frustrated and Curly was just trying to buff and heal the party (Curly was Princess Ruby, I forget who Moe was and I was The Angry Bear). Rolf focused me down and killed me knowing I was the most knowledgeable player and after I ws dead, it became easily apparent who the victor would be. Bad example of skill level of Rolf as that may be, he at least had the foresight to know how to demoralize the party for a win.

Second example of Rolf's skill level was a game of Loot- o meter (Again with Kobolds). Even with the superior gameplay mechanics of Loot-o-meter, superior Spawn point placement and intuitive stall tactics (and a lucky draw from starfire, he drew the dragon lance) decided the game fairly early on. Just based on draws, die rolls, 9 times outta 10, you can tell who the victor will be; at least explore cards allowed for the tides to turn in favor of the other side due to random allotment every once in a while.

I won't say that Rolf and I's encounters ALWAYS ended in the consul winning, btu even with another one of my good tactical gamer friends (I'll call him Steve) even he notices that gameplay is more often than not in the gameplay I in favor of the Consul.


growlley wrote:
'mooks' to present the 'illusion of difficulty? Well in that case our group will never play again , they are all highly experienced tatical war gamer \rpg'ers with over 20 years of experience each.

As Consul I expect to be punished for any errors I make , in return they expect me to bring the meat grinder.



amarento wrote:
Yeah I really don't want to play a 3 hour game with the "illusion of difficulty"... waves after waves of harmless minions? I'll pass.

I shelved my FK Arcade especially because of this, it was just wave after wave of crappy minions that offered no challenge, then a big bad boss that could wipe the entire party on a lucky roll.

The new rule set is way more balanced. I'd much rather have the minions give heroes a beating, and a final showdown with the boss to seal their fate... It also makes for interesting reversals this way and a much greater sense of accomplishment in the end.


See, I guess I don't understand the logic there. The "illusion of challenge" concept is only problem just like with other "illusions", when you realize it. Otherwise, you'd just think it was close gameplay that isn't decided ntil the boss spawns. At no point did I say that said "illusion" would be easy for the heroes, it just would make sure that the gameplay seems close and meaningful, rather than just: one side is obviously too strong and so we need to sit through another 2 hours of this curb stomping until it's finally over. It strikes me as even more odd because even as the rules currently stand, it seems like it's still about a 6 to 8 hour romp for more 4 heroes. I think most people "seem" to want no more than an hour per tile, if not a half our per tile, but between the new line of sight rules, almost every monster activating every turn, and limited loot draw to name a few, I don't know how you hope it to accomplish that while keeping the still tedious intuitive gameplay... It just doesn't seem feasible.


July 16th, 2017, 4:35 pm
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Denizen
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Quote:
I don't really think that's a fair assessment of someone's skill for someone you don't know, he's very tactical.


Possible. I called it what it seamed like to me.. I don't agree with ANY player of decent skill, or even low skill, resigning the game. I've seen after 3 moves I have made a total screw up of the game and don't have much change to win, but you have to keep playing.. This isn't global thermonuclear war here.

though I guess I did make a slight mistake.. It's a very stupid mistake to make.. I should have said he wasn't very strategic.

Myself, I'm not very tactical. I lose most times I play chess. You learn from losing but I can only think about 4 moves ahead in about 5 or so different directions.. I often play a guy that is WELL above my level and he often picks the 6th option.. But I do have a good sense of Strategy and games that more lean towards strategy over tactics, I'm far better at.

Knowing the rules and ways to 'use them' to your best advantage is more strategy then tactics though... to put it in crude terms.. Tactics are short term. Strategy is long term. Games where I can build up a power base to attack from is strategic and I'm pretty good.. BUT I can fall for not being tactical enough to give myself a short term protection. Thus the chess problem.. I play the long game, don't notice the short term until too late and Bang, I'm out. But when I do win, it's more often when the other player doesn't use short term advantages so I can play the long game.


July 16th, 2017, 7:27 pm
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Minion
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Quick question if its okay, but it might be a stupid one!

I have all the older Super Dungeon stuff, but, which cards are getting replaced with the new sets? Should i be shelving the Forgotten King treasures and hero cards? Minion cards and stuff? Or is it only really the Core 2.0 getting redone?


July 18th, 2017, 5:43 am
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Denizen
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basically, keep the cards from FK.
Core is coming with a new set of Treasure etc, but they are compatible. Hero Cards and Monsters cards are also just updated cards with minor tweaks if that, and your old Cards (if you have the update deck for the original core game) are fine.


July 18th, 2017, 5:49 am
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Minion
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Thanks! Just had a look through the KS page since its been so long, looks like the Arcade and Explore decks will be updated too but thats all, thats good to know!


July 18th, 2017, 5:53 am
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Rinion wrote:
Quick question if its okay, but it might be a stupid one!

I have all the older Super Dungeon stuff, but, which cards are getting replaced with the new sets? Should i be shelving the Forgotten King treasures and hero cards? Minion cards and stuff? Or is it only really the Core 2.0 getting redone?


Hero and monster (boss/miniboss/spawners/etc.) are all still valid (if they are from FK on. very original, 1.0, stuff is out dated). The loot and treasure decks aren't necessarily being replaced. But there is going to be a new, alternative, version of them in the 2.0 base set (there is also a third alternative set in the arena base set). Certain types of cards from FK, like explore cards and the monster command deck for arcade mode, will become defunct using the new rule sets. But they are not being directly replaced with new decks. All of your FK and beyond stat cards will still be valid though.

That said, there will apparently be some tweaks to the 2.0 monsters and heroes that bring them more in line with how the new rules work. I'm speculating here, but I don't see those changes being so drastic as to fully invalidate previous versions. Something like that has already happened in the new release of the Caverns of Roxxor, apparently. With the rocktops getting a stealth revision.

There will also be all new versions of the original set monsters that are intended to be new, alternative, versions of the kobold warrens and egg clutch. These aren't replacing anything. They are just bonus, additional, ways to use the spawn points.

Hopefully that answers your questions. ^_^


July 18th, 2017, 5:55 am
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Relic Cards for some Dungeon Bosses are the new content to fulfil the new rules. You may use Treasure Cards like every Dungeon Boss have the ability Hoard to equip it with your collection.

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July 18th, 2017, 11:22 am
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Minion
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Also keep in mind that the Egg Clutch is getting replaced too as they're getting rid of the "Hatchery" ability on it.


July 18th, 2017, 9:23 pm
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Denizen
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The Hatchery ability is kinda pointless now. Going back more towards original rules, means monsters ca n spawn from any spawning point. as that is basicly what Hatchery allows, it's both still in effect, and completely pointless now ^_^


July 19th, 2017, 5:50 am
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Minion
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ManicMan wrote:
The Hatchery ability is kinda pointless now. Going back more towards original rules, means monsters ca n spawn from any spawning point. as that is basicly what Hatchery allows, it's both still in effect, and completely pointless now ^_^


I understand WHY I just think it's lazy. They could've come up with something else or erattaed Hatchery easily. Plus, I don't like the "spawn anything from anywere" rule.


July 19th, 2017, 12:20 pm
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Some monsters with text "[place-holder of action/effect]...from spawning pool" going to be OP based on the new rules where count the combination of spawning points as the spawning pool.

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July 19th, 2017, 12:38 pm
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Minion
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Nephastus wrote:
Some monsters with text "[place-holder of action/effect]...from spawning pool" going to be OP based on the new rules where count the combination of spawning points as the spawning pool.


The REAL imbalance is going to come when they enact mobile spawn points. They'll be able to attack AND summon guys? The game is imbalanced as it is...


July 19th, 2017, 1:12 pm
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