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 Legends Update Thread 
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Mini-Boss
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Doubt Justin had much to do with that. It's not really rules. So doesn't change anything

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October 22nd, 2018, 5:05 pm
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ManicMan wrote:
Doubt Justin had much to do with that. It's not really rules. So doesn't change anything

Just asking because he was specifically the one from ND posting all the information about them and playtesting back in June in the NAS crossover thread.


October 22nd, 2018, 5:52 pm
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ah. Okay then ^_^

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October 22nd, 2018, 5:57 pm
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Denizen
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JazzFlight wrote:
ND_Justin wrote:
Hi all,

I just wanted to let you guys know that I am no longer working with Ninja Division Publishing.

I was originally hired to bring Super Dungeon Explore, Super Dungeon Arcade, and Relic Knights into their second editions. This has been accomplished from the rules-writing side (link: https://twitter.com/ninjadiv/status/101 ... 50912?s=21 ). There is more to do in terms of manufacturing and distribution but, as a rules writer, I simply cannot add anything else to these projects.

Legends itself has playtesting and adventures to be worked on (though the core rules are written) but that was always Deke’s baby, and I can’t wait to see what he does with it.

With no more rules to write, I am moving on. I am uncertain what I will do next, maybe even try my hand at my own company.

I am leaving on good terms with Ninja Division. I will always wish them the best. And I am open to working with them again in the future if they have more projects for me.

I do want to say, it has been an honor working with this community. Playtesting with you guys was a ton of fun. You’re amazing people, and the new editions are so, so much better for your input. Dealing with you guys was, by far, my favorite part of this job. I love this hobby and I love the people who participate in it, and you guys are some of the best. This was a hard year for me with the loss of my mom and a number of other things, and you guys were always truly supportive and understanding. I know there is a lot of frustration and anger out there right now, and rightly so. I wish I could have done more. I truly hope one day I’ll be able to sit down for a game of SDE or RK 2.0 with some of you.

Thank you. All of you.

Does anyone know where this leaves the rest of the Ninja All-Stars conversion decks?

I'm also interested in getting the rest of the NAS-to-SDE decks; I already purchased all the models. Justin was at least testing some conversions a few months ago, but we haven't heard much after that. I also remember hearing there were plans to get rules done for new game mode(s) (for Arena?), but those haven't materialized either. I am looking forward to official 2 vs 2 Arena mode if it ever was part of plans. At the moment it probably isn't...

I wonder if "core rules written" refers to the version that was shown 10 months ago. If new development has truly happened, I would hope seeing update of them. Otherwise I don't believe any progress has happened on this area. If rules and adventure writing is not constantly progressing, it will never even have a chance of being finished. Deke is not the fastest in this department. Forgotten King proved it to me. I would want to start playing official adventures soon if those were finally digitally released. (Well to be honest I want to play the well balanced and fun adventures - not rushed ones.)

I wish all the best for you Justin. I hope the game you designed with us is released one day!


October 22nd, 2018, 6:00 pm
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So, there's been a clear slowdown in resin products.

Here's hoping that's because those production lines are currently being used for the Way of the Fighter/Siege of the Citadel/Relic Knights miniatures.

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October 23rd, 2018, 4:52 pm
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Mini-Boss
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@Manicman - yeah, although I wouldn't expect to see new MMCs potentially for years given the current backlog of SDE product tied up in the KS. The good thing is that it's given us a structure for how to customize the game by making homebrew MMC, which I do like, for example, making a shorter or longer game with only mini bosses instead of dungeon boss.

@JazzFlight - my understanding is that Justin completed the dev on the NAS SDE cards, potentially months ago. Supposedly Upgrade pack 2 (Ijin, Yamazaru, Onibaba, etc.) was sent to the printers (or at least ready for the printers) months ago and Upgrade pack 3 (Tora and Ika) was close to done at that point. So, as is the case with the majority of the ND products....it's a matter of when they can get it produced and in either in our hands or on the storefront/retail.


October 23rd, 2018, 5:37 pm
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@odisgrandson - IIRC, SOTC will be manufactured by Mophidius and not ND (if I read their last update correctly). So ND resin production should (ideally) be focused on finishing WOTF (whatever is left since they've shown a couple of them already done), RK 2.0 (at least the starter), and SF.


October 23rd, 2018, 5:39 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
@Manicman - yeah, although I wouldn't expect to see new MMCs potentially for years given the current backlog of SDE product tied up in the KS. The good thing is that it's given us a structure for how to customize the game by making homebrew MMC, which I do like, for example, making a shorter or longer game with only mini bosses instead of dungeon boss.


true but they have said about them as Digital download so that's an option for a quicker release..
personally, I would like to see a bit more in the way of digital download on 'special' content, like when they did the Mini-boss card for the Alchemist (as the Deranged Alchemist) or, in a way, the Explore deck cards for Testudo Tower

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October 23rd, 2018, 5:49 pm
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Yeah...I don't have confidence when the ND digital download/options will be available. Obviously they host files on the website and KS for the PnP rules for all their games, but they don't have a devoted download section on their ND site yet.

Also, with Justin out of the picture, I would not expect any of these would have been developed and I don't think Deke would spend time on these until SDL is done.

On top of that, I'm not sure it's a good idea for ND to give away things 'for free' without a way to monetize it (e.g. paid downloads and/or buying a printed versions).

Given how long it's taking them to get the NAS SDE Upgrade packs out and the issues they've had with the webstore...I don't know at what point this would be a money maker for them/pull resources from their existing commitments.

Ideally, imo, they'd have a marketplace/part of their site where fans can upload their homebrew (for SDL) to share with other fans so they can keep tabs on it, and/or offer additional pay services. I mean, like one day, right?

The Deranged Alchemist felt like an atypical addition. There was no arcade version released and I personally don't enjoy/like PnP since it usually, in practical senses, costs me more to print compared to getting retail in many cases.


October 23rd, 2018, 8:49 pm
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yeah, I agree really though I just use my inkjet printer and some nice card stock which isn't that pricey anyway (max price and this is for big name like Polaroid) is about £3-£4 for 12 sheets of A4. Not totally cheap but you can get better. that is the top range price and fairly affordable. and yeah, giving away too much stuff for free is a pain but I've notice that for quite some time, they DO give away the cards for Free. I didn't buy (have yet to get) the House Siren Enforcer. But if I go to the Website and the store, there is a picture of the card's front and back in one image which is 1000x700 with a 96dpi and oh , pretty much the logos are out of the card frame at the bottom of one bit. they are WAY more then good enough to print at home and use. Of course, I don't have the model. Which is basically, the selling point of most miniature games for some time. Figures have always been just there as a Proxy for that character. It's great if your figure matches up but doesn't really have to.. well, GW did have this one rule for a while where if the figure had a sword then you HAD to spend the points cost on that equipment.. not sure if that's still there, but if you didn't have the right figure, a sub would work fine.

Some games, like GW do, all the rules are released in big overpriced books and not with the figures anyway. There is a minute game my father is getting into a bit which.. well, most people have said there rules are a bit bad.. for one thing, the 'cards' for each character don't list what weapon they have.. the weapon data on all weapons is on one of the three rule books which are badly laid out and sometimes conflict with each other.. makes it great fun trying to figure out what gun a character has or doesn't have ¬_¬. In fact, the base box set only comes with a couple of types of figure, but the cards for TONS more as the standard 'look what else you can buy' which pretty much every company does for some time (again, GW see the 80s at least.. TSR since the start). So really, the only thing you pay for is a pre-printed card, and the figure itself. so it's not really giving away anything more then they do.

As for the MMC in that format, It was more ones for pre-existing Bosses. They have said that right now, New Bosses come with atleast 1 new Relic card just for them, on top of the Base set's generic cards and that they plan to release new relic cards for older bosses online, so why not the MMC too? It would be nice for the company to be able to make something for it, but... while I 100% understand and do support some Digital only stuff (like some Comics), the whole "Pay us for this, then you need to go to the expensive of printing it yourself" has never quite sat right with me.. It's something that a lot of UK companies do to con the employees.. often you need to print out your wage slip and while they used to give or set out a copy to you, now they e-mail and YOU need to pay for the printing. while 1 sheet of A4 isn't a huge amount, think about it when you add all the employees they have.. things build up.

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October 23rd, 2018, 9:26 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
@odisgrandson - IIRC, SOTC will be manufactured by Mophidius and not ND (if I read their last update correctly). So ND resin production should (ideally) be focused on finishing WOTF (whatever is left since they've shown a couple of them already done), RK 2.0 (at least the starter), and SF.



I don't remember that about Modiphius manufacturing them, but that'd be good. Even under the best of circumstances, coordinating delivery with the two companies involved would complicate things that are already complicated.

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October 25th, 2018, 11:04 pm
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There are definitely some people that believe ND is producing the SOTC minis (and thus often blame them for the delay), but ND indicated they already delivered the sculpts and cards to Mophidius and they're doing the production. I think in the past (well b/f I got involved into it as a late late late pledge), Mophidius told folks they were waiting on ND for something and folks may have assumed that meant ND is owning production (which doesn't make sense either, imo, since Mophidius already has their own production as evidenced by other products).


October 26th, 2018, 4:52 pm
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sounds like the standard intercompany politics ^_^

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October 26th, 2018, 5:20 pm
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
There are definitely some people that believe ND is producing the SOTC minis (and thus often blame them for the delay), but ND indicated they already delivered the sculpts and cards to Mophidius and they're doing the production. I think in the past (well b/f I got involved into it as a late late late pledge), Mophidius told folks they were waiting on ND for something and folks may have assumed that meant ND is owning production (which doesn't make sense either, imo, since Mophidius already has their own production as evidenced by other products).



Oh, that's good.

Ninja Division is definitely not involved in the delays from Siege of the Citadel. Those delays seem to be caused by standard Kickstarter scale escalation (ie, Modiphius is producing a lot of stuff- and during the KS, the rules weren't completely finished).

Seems like a good thing for Modiphius producing the minis (I've painted some of their resins before). At very least, it is something that NJ don't have to worry about, and that's a good thing.

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October 26th, 2018, 7:58 pm
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I know they won't (and I know that they have business reasons for this), but I really wish they would just release the 3D models for the new minis we've paid for.

I realize that it would take considerable time to print all of these off, and that not all of us have 3D printers (I personally don't), but there are so many avenues for getting custom files 3D printed in varying materials and qualities. At least that way those of us who want to could print/order the ones that we want for our own collections to take some little sting out of the eternal wait. None of these "masterclass" resin minis at $30-40 per model, just the files for us to do as we please without waiting for SPM/ND.

I know this won't happen, and I realize that they want to protect their intellectual property from IP thieves... It would look pretty bad if someone started selling "grey market" knockoff prints of their product before SPM/ND ever gets it into manufacturing. So I get why the 3D files probably won't be released, but it's a nice thought. :/

I really wild love some kind of good news on this project, but the longer we go, the further this project seems from ever becoming a reality, and the silent treatment from then doesn't exactly help.


October 26th, 2018, 10:30 pm
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while I can see what you are getting at, there are SOO many reasons why NOT to do this.

though I don't quite agree with your last comment. It seams to be more the longer we go, the more likely it is to happen cause the company IS doing productive stuff. might not be what people want or as much or as well, but it is doing it.

of course, since one of the reasons for the silent treatment is how... overly aggressively some people have been (some of what was said and is said is not just childish but.. no call for at all. Going after a rapist to see justice done is one thing, going after a rapist to kill him is not called for, going after his FAMILY cause of the connection he has to them is totally out of line. Going after a Suspected but not proven or anything rapist and wanted to kill him and his family is TOTALLY Totally out of line. I don't think we quite got a bad as the worse of these, but we are long past a fair option..

anyway.. best not to go on with this.. but at the same time, it seams to be a very bad thing to say anything nice.. seams to be a delete offence to say nice and civil things... sigh..

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October 27th, 2018, 1:59 pm
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TheHandsomeDan wrote:
I know they won't (and I know that they have business reasons for this), but I really wish they would just release the 3D models for the new minis we've paid for.

I realize that it would take considerable time to print all of these off, and that not all of us have 3D printers (I personally don't), but there are so many avenues for getting custom files 3D printed in varying materials and qualities. At least that way those of us who want to could print/order the ones that we want for our own collections to take some little sting out of the eternal wait. None of these "masterclass" resin minis at $30-40 per model, just the files for us to do as we please without waiting for SPM/ND.

I know this won't happen, and I realize that they want to protect their intellectual property from IP thieves... It would look pretty bad if someone started selling "grey market" knockoff prints of their product before SPM/ND ever gets it into manufacturing. So I get why the 3D files probably won't be released, but it's a nice thought. :/

I really wild love some kind of good news on this project, but the longer we go, the further this project seems from ever becoming a reality, and the silent treatment from then doesn't exactly help.



I feel that this is only an option if SPM declares the project DEAD. That would probably require Ninja Division to go out of business and liquidate all assets, etc.

If they do this, it is not unlikely that Impact! Miniatures would try to acquire the rights to the sculpts (and possibly the game/rules). Impact! recently ran a Kickstarter for 3D prints of miniatures from failed Kickstarter projects (either failed to fund or failed to deliver).

Of course, backers would still be totally burned- and it would cost considerably more for 3D prints.

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October 29th, 2018, 9:41 pm
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'Evening everyone,


It is now my turn to say thank you.

Today is my final day at Ninja Division Publishing, and I am grateful for the opportunity I had to interact with this community.

This was my beginning in this industry, and I have all of you to thank, just as much as Ninja Division, for the skills and talents that I've learned.

Due to your feedback and passion, I was able to see Justin grow what we had in SDE: The Forgotten King and Relic Knights into these wonderful new editions, which I am excited for you to play.

Every opportunity to watch him design, or to learn new software or techniques, I owe to your interest in what we were building.

I am very proud of what we created together, and I remain supportive of my friends at Ninja Division and their endeavors.

I believe in them, and I am hopeful that we'll all be playing Super Dungeon Legends soon.


Thank you, and I hope we see each other again.


-Scott Davis, CSR Ninja Division Publishing, LLC

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November 1st, 2018, 1:02 am
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Mini-Boss
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Take care, Scott. Good luck with your next adventure!


November 1st, 2018, 4:04 am
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@Scott, best of luck in whatever comes next!

You've shown great character in your time working for ND. I hope good things come to you in the next chapter!


November 1st, 2018, 4:52 am
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