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 Arcade 2.0 Rules. I think I'm missing something important 
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Bottle Cap

Joined: September 17th, 2018, 4:23 am
Posts: 2
Hi everyone. Sorry if this sounds stupid.
I tried to do the whole PnP thing this weekend and I've tried about 3 times now doing a 3 hero game and I can't get out of the first tile!

I'm using the Zombies expansion double spawn for the spawn points on tiles 1 and 2, then any random single spawn on tile 3. As per the rules, only tile 1 spawns right when the heroes enter, but it spawns ALL monsters even though it's a double spawn, right?

But by turn 4 on the mighty monsters track all spawn points on the board spawn. Which means even if I take out the spawn point on tile 1, tile 2 and 3 monsters are constantly coming in. Then immediately after that the mini boss spawns on turn 5.

I have to be doing something wrong. There's no way the mini boss can spawn on round 5. I'm lucky if I have 1 spawn point down by then. At best I only ever have 1 treasure card by then too (the one from the chest on tile 1).

What am I missing in the rules? I advance the mighty monster track after activating 2 of my heroes, right?
Add the challenge cards and plots on top of all that and it's impossible. I can't even get out of the first tile to attempt finishing any of those plot cards. And they're brutal (specifically the one where you can't heal until you pick up the tokens spread around the map)! I know I start with 4 princess coins so it's expected that I die, but by round 8 (the epic fight round) all my characters are dead and I'm still on the first tile and the mini boss and all monsters are still there spawn camping me...

September 17th, 2018, 4:34 am
Ninja Corps
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Joined: March 25th, 2012, 9:44 pm
Posts: 2471
It doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong, at first blush. Arcade mode is supposed to be relatively hard with no difficulty modifying cards. The choice of spawns also has a huge impact on difficulty. Try a single spwner on tile 1, that will slightly staunch the flow. Hero choice, obviously, has a strong impact on difficulty as well.

Mostly you will just have to play around with monster/hero/difficulty card combinations.

September 26th, 2018, 2:29 pm
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Joined: October 29th, 2012, 8:56 pm
Posts: 549
I think you posted the same question on the SDE BGG forums. Copying my response here:

The zombies are one of the tougher spawns since they have a high HP count compared to the # of elite/minions so they are not only tougher to defeat initially, but also generate less loot as a result, and if you have bad luck, they can cut you down fairly early and make it hard to catch up.

Ideally by MMC 4, the first tile is cleared and you're working on the second tile (if you have not already cleared it) so you're not dealing with 3 spawns worth of monsters. Having a paired spawn on Tile 1 & 2 is thus more difficult than a paired spawn on Tile 2 & 3 in this regard in most cases.

Arcade 2.0 is planned to come with 3 single spawns so by MMC4 in most cases you'll only have 2 spawns to deal with and (hopefully) by the time the Mini Boss spawns, less than 2 full spawns on the board .

By putting zombies on tile 1 & 2 you are inadvertently playing a meta hardmode that even a strong/above average party with good rolls would struggle with unless you are consistently rolling critical successes.

I will usually only put a paired spawn on tile 1 & 2 or tile 1 & 3 if it's a weaker paired spawn (like the updated kobolds from classic 2.0) or playing with experienced team/stronger party.

Another option may be for you to use an easy mode card (I like the one where you start the match with some loot) until you get the hang of it and can better set the difficulty/where to place the spawns based on how you like to play (for example, I prefer easier games and others specifically LIKE having it so tough they lose at least 50% of the time ).

Finally, you may want to check out the SPM forum thread on Arcade battle reports for some insight on how/what other players are doing/experiencing.

If you can find the SDE discord (Crystalia Town), that's also a good place to interact with other SDE fans and get feedback.

September 26th, 2018, 6:14 pm
Bottle Cap

Joined: September 17th, 2018, 4:23 am
Posts: 2
Ah, yes. I posted the question to this forum first but it never showed up so I posted on bgg.
It took a week for them to approve my post here so it showed up after I posted on bgg. Sorry.

But yes, I did read your reply and it makes sense. I don’t think I’m going to play 2.0 anymore though. If the 2.0 rules only work well when the correct spawn points are chosen along with the correct party make up then I’m not interested. I don’t have time to try 20 different combinations of spawn points and heroes and difficulty cards just to find something that works.

I bought Forgotten King and a bunch of expansions made for the Forgotten King rule set and everything works well enough for that.

If Soda Pop ever puts out the 2.0 set, I’ll buy it. But to me it seems the 2.0 rules are build for the 2.0 monsters and the 2.0 heroes, and just don’t work well with the older sets (esp. stats effect focused units).
That’s just my opinion. YMMV.

September 28th, 2018, 7:54 am
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Joined: October 29th, 2012, 8:56 pm
Posts: 549
@DrHeims - that's fair. I'm in the opposite boat where I feel the same way about playing the FK arcade rules, but I also didn't have a tough time finding the difficulty level I prefer in Arcade 2.0. The biggest win for me was getting a game down to 2 hrs, even solo, and feeling each turn was meaningful compared to FK arcade where you basically just farmed tile 1 and then grinded the rest of the tiles until the boss over 4+ hours.

I agree that balance b/w FK and 2.0 is diff. for heroes and monsters, but for arcade it shifted the priority to AOE heroes to circumvent Expendable vs. Gangs and/or ranged/mobile heroes that can prioritize killing spawns or key targets before MMCs. It's definitely different in a way I prefer 'puzzle wise' since the FK arcade deck is not transparent with the MMC/timer puts pressure on the game, but your still have variability with the challenge and plot, which are also more impactful then the explore cards in different ways.

if you're enjoying FK, I don't think there's any reason to move onto 2.0 early. For someone like me were FK arcade was unplayable due to time commitment, 2.0 hit a lot of spots that made the game much more fun again for me, but there are definitely tradeoffs.

I think the part I miss the most if having the board filled with monsters at the start of the game. The board feels a lot more empty (especially if you're winning/doing well), but new players I introduced to SDE on 2.0 that haven't played FK didn't have any issues with it (it felt similar to Gloomhaven to them).

October 1st, 2018, 4:00 pm
Dungeon Boss
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Joined: March 14th, 2012, 4:33 pm
Posts: 1046
Location: Utah
SDE 1.0 had an interesting game flow where I felt the heroes were trying to kill off the spawn points as fast as humanly possible. We seldom left the first spawn point around past the first round, and usually tried to kill the second in that time as well. If the first hero to activate could kill a spawn point, she would.

Forgotten King reversed that- if you killed the first spawn point in the first turn, then you had to battle a mini boss without any upgrades, so you'd get rocked.

The trouble with FK is that it gave the heroes complete control over the game flow, and the best way to guarantee success was to neutralize the monsters and farm them.

That farming is pretty much gone in the new version, so you have to adjust your expectations accordingly.

- Also, remember that not all set ups should be equal in Arcade. Co-op games benefit from adjustable difficulty, and it seems that having a double spawner on the first tile makes things more difficult for the heroes.

The toughest spawn point right now is probably the Kitsune- because the spawn point runs away from you, and the Kitsune clan get more powerful as you go deeper into the dungeon. On the flip side, the easiest spawn is probably the Salt Pillar.

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November 6th, 2018, 4:49 pm
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