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 Arcade 2.0 Linked Spawn Point Balance/Strategy 
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Denizen
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Joined: October 29th, 2012, 8:56 pm
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For Arcade 2.0, the spawn command on the Mighty Monster Chart:

The spawning point closest to the Hero with the most wrath spawns all gangs that have at least one elite available to spawn.

Since Linked Spawning points lists all the models, which is usually twice as many as a non-linked spawning point, doesn't that make Linked Spawning points much harder b/c the heroes (especially on the first tile when they don't have equipment yet) b/c they have to deal with twice as many mobs? In Explore (1.0 at least) the Consul had more flexibility for what mobs could be spawned, but was limited by the skull allowance, which doesn't exist in Arcade.

I was thinking of what the (hero) advantage would be for picking a linked spawning point compared to a regular spawning point and this is what I could come up with:

1) Easier AOE. Since so many mobs must spawn/get in range of the highest wrath hero, this may organically group mobs to aoe (assuming a suitable party was picked!)
2) Faster access to loot due to 1) on first tile. I remember some games (pre-2.0) I had heroes that could do nothing their activation but move b/c the previous hero 'mopped up' the remaining mobs b/f we moved to the next tile. Not sure if this'd be an issue with 2.0 b/c Consul turn 2 reinforces and turn 3 spawns.
3) Outrun the mobs to tile 2? Basically kill the spawn point and outrun the mobs to tile 2 to hit an uncontested spawn point?

I was also thinking of the pro/cons for placing the linked spawn points on tile 1 & 2, vs. 2 & 3 and 1 & 3.

Are linked spawning points just not 'beginner' Arcade spawning points and meant to be more of a challenge? I see the new Midnight Tower spawning points are not linked, but I'm so used to every 'main box' having linked points and primarily warbands being the individual spawn points.


February 18th, 2018, 5:20 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: December 12th, 2015, 10:36 pm
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Linked spawning points SHARE the same models. There aren’t twice as many. If a model is already on the board from the first linked spawning point, it cannot be spawned again until it has been destroyed.


February 19th, 2018, 3:56 am
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Ninja Corps
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Double spawns to tend to have more monsters than single spawn. they also tend to have a sort of mini-mini-boss as part of their line up (like the dragon priest or the fire beetle). So, they are usually intrinsically harder in an arcade game that a given single spawn.

HOWEVER, this discussion has been had before, and there are layers to it. the way spawners work is that if you have the monsters listed on the spawn in your spawn pool when instructions to spawn happen, they spawn. With a double spawn, this means that more monsters spawn at once. This is generally going to be more difficult than a single spawn spawning less monsters at once (redundant so far, I know). But, if you replace the double spawners with two single spawns that are the same spawn, this then becomes potentially harder than a double spawn. This is because, even though they are the same spawn point, they are chosen separately, so each one brings it's pool of monsters to the spawn pool (twice as many, obviously). So, while less monsters spawn at once, more monsters spawn from the same point over 2 spawns, because monsters of a type aren't tied to a specific spawner, just any spawner that lists them.

So, the general difficulty curve for 2 spawners goes: two disparate single spawns -> one double spawn -> two identical single spawns. This just plays into the concept discusses on another thread that not everything in the game holds a perfect balance with everything else. Not every combination of spawners will be the same, difficulty wise. Nor will every hero combination. Throw in mini bosses and bosses that all have different (and often circumstantial) difficulties and you are looking at a million gradients of difficulty. I, for one, think this is a good thing. Both in arcade and explore versions. I like that customization will effect more than just the aesthetic of the game. You can play "hard mode" or "easy mode" without even having to incorporate the difficulty cards once you know the ins and outs of your collection, mechanically. Or, you can use the cards to elevate or lower the difficulty curve for a theme you want to play regardless of it's difficulty otherwise. All good stuff!


February 19th, 2018, 10:51 am
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Denizen
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Thanks for the responses! We have mostly played SDE 1.0 > 1.5 and SDE Arcade FK so in our minds, the Kobolds are generally the 'weaker' spawnpoints, but I'm not sure this is the case for Arcade due to how spawn points are not restricted by skull value and the tradeoffs do largely depend on other factors not explicitly printed on the card.

I'm trying to get back into SDE Arcade 2.0 with the beta preview rules and was trying to compare the difficulty level of each spawn point before spending time doing playthroughs since I have limited time and was butting up against the issue of the linked spawn points.

I'm also still wrapping my head around thinking of Arcade mobs in their gang counterparts rather than models and aggregating their stats and relative strengths/weaknesses for comparison like total # of wounds.


February 19th, 2018, 7:48 pm
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Ninja Corps
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I once thought to try to "rank" spawns and stuff. But quickly found that there are so many situational variables that it was near impossible to do it beyond an extremely general, super broad, way. Which board a spawn is on heavily influences it's difficulty. Weather a paired spawns is on boards 1 & 2, 1 & 3 or 2 & 3 greatly influences it's difficulty (with 1 & 3 generally being the hardest and 2 & 3 being the easiest...but not always).

There are a couple solid, minor, house rules that someone brought up in another thread. Those being changing the troll models, from the tribal stone, all to elite. Then, change the sorrows, from the salt pillar, to minions. At least for loot purposes that makes a lot more sense and really smooths out the difficulty of both of those spawns. For the most part, though, you can only get kind of a general feel of how hard a spawn point is. But it's only vaguely accurate outside of the context of the specific game it will be in.


February 19th, 2018, 8:18 pm
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Minion
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Usagi wrote:
There are a couple solid, minor, house rules that someone brought up in another thread. Those being changing the troll models, from the tribal stone, all to elite. Then, change the sorrows, from the salt pillar, to minions. At least for loot purposes that makes a lot more sense and really smooths out the difficulty of both of those spawns. For the most part, though, you can only get kind of a general feel of how hard a spawn point is. But it's only vaguely accurate outside of the context of the specific game it will be in.

Yep it was me. As you said, it's only for the loot that I balanced this way.

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February 20th, 2018, 9:25 am
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Denizen
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thanks for the suggestion! It's taken me over a week to get the beta arcade cards printed and cut out (but not backed) and I'm nearing the point of doing a solo runthrough.

It's those types of observations (tile placement) I feel would be helpful in a guide or somewhat. I know someone was ranking heroes awhile back and I tried some of his recommendations and had mixed results. I think anyone familiar with the game will instantly recognize that there is not a one size fits all strategy due to the great variety available.

Part of this exercise is selfish - I want to reintroduce SDE to my wife (who only plays archers, i.e. glimmerdusk ranger and pretty heroes) and didn't want to just pick heroes and spawns willy nilly since the last time we did that (paired with the FK arcade rules we were not happy with), it was a frustrating, negative experience. We generally are only able to fit in a board game night every few weeks due schedules not matching up most of the time and want to tailor the experience to get her on board.


February 20th, 2018, 11:57 pm
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Ninja Corps
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sleepy_laughter wrote:
Part of this exercise is selfish - I want to reintroduce SDE to my wife (who only plays archers, i.e. glimmerdusk ranger and pretty heroes)


you should look into getting the limited edition Sweetheart Candy then. sh's a preorder here http://sodapopminiatures.com/preorders- ... eart-candy an will print on demand before shipping. she's kind of pricey, but the resin minis have been quite good so far.


February 21st, 2018, 4:02 am
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Denizen
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Like a lot of other folks I went back and forth on Sweetheart Candy b/c I couldn't justify the price tag + shipping for a single mini/hero considering for the same amount of $$$ you can get an entire discounted warband online which comes with a hero, mobs, and mini-boss. Buuut, that's what holiday $$$ is for :). So hopefully wife will be surprised.


February 21st, 2018, 5:13 am
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