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 Super Dungeon Arcade 2.0 Rule clairifications 
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Bottle Cap
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Joined: April 30th, 2015, 5:38 am
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Having played arcade 2.0 a couple of times now, some questions have arisen. From atop of my head, I post them here for discussion and the hope that we will have an official answer.

Gangs, minions and LoS:
This came up mostly with the Forgotten King tileset, which has many mazelike areas. Can minions be part of a gang if LOS to its elite is completely blocked by a wall? Will they place in such a way following an elite's move into a tight space (to best space out and avoid being next to other monsters) or will they follow the Elite into the crowded space? Example:
Quote:
After Elite(E) movement into a corridor, bonded minions(M) are placed. | are walls.
|M_|____________|M_|
|__|M___________|_M|
|E_|______or_____|E_|
|__|M___________|_M|
|M_|____________|M_|

Creeps and loot
In Forgotten King, creeps carried the insignificant tag, which meant they did not provide loot. In the Pet Parade ruleupdate, insignificant was removed from Ghosts and is not present on Squiglies either, which by first glance suggest they are fair game for the hording heroes. Yet, the rulebook also mentions that Creeps are a class of monsters on its own, but does not expand upon the implications of this. Is it to be understood that since Creeps are neither Minions, nor Elites, they inherently do not provide loot?

Multiple wounds and expendable
When causing multiple hitpoints of damage to an elite bonded to several 1-life minions in a single non-aoe blow, eg. critical hit, how is the damage resolved? We played it as the damage is distributed between minions and any left-over would stick to the elite, eg. a 2dmg hit would mean two minions are knocked out. However the rules are ambiguous enough that it could be argued that a single minion would take the entire blow.

AOE's, hearts and potions
The age-old question that to my knowledge has not yet been answered, though I suggested this to be clairified during rule-book feedback.
Will an area of effect attack, that successfully wounds several targets while rolling a heart/potion cause that many hearts/potions to drop or only a single heart/potion (wound two enemies, roll one heart: Heal 1 or 2?)

Loud slurping
Can you slurp other heroes potions or only the ones that your hero holds?

Predator and invulentary movement
This has been asked before, but I do not recall a satisfactory answer. Will Predator trigger when a model is compelled to move away from a model with predator, eg. from being adjacent to no longer being adjacent. What about Pull and Push effects? is it intended to?

Signature action, Ice and Unique command
Signature actions of bosses and minibosses are described in a subsection of the Arcade Unique command. They trigger first thing after movement, that much is clear.
Are they considered unique actions and this prevented by the ICE status effect? I asume yes.
Will they trigger again if a unique command is issued by the Boss Challenge Deck? I asume no. Likewise by a regular unique command.

Unique command and Shapeshift
In the new rules shapeshift is triggered by the unique command whereas it used to be trigger by the spawn command in forgotten king. How is this intended to act with existing shapeshift models that also have unique actions on their card? Do they shapeshift before using unique actions, thus rendering those on the basic model essentially void, or after?


February 6th, 2018, 11:12 pm
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Minion
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Joined: March 25th, 2016, 7:53 am
Posts: 103
I'll try to answer your question with the best of my knowledge.

Gangs, minions and LoS:
The rulebook doesn't mention LoS so I woudn't bother too much with LoS when placing minions.
However, with your particular example, it would seem inappropriate to place minions outside the corridor if there is no exit.

Creeps and loot:
I understand they don't provide loot, as it was in FK and they don't appear on the Rewards chart.

Multiple wounds and expendable:
The way I play it is only one minion suffer the attack and extra damage is lost (1 attack = 1 minion).

AOE's, hearts and potions:
Like for the previous question, one roll = one heart.

Loud slurping:
It's not really clear in the rulebook but I'd say the hero must use its own potion token to slurp loudly.

Predator and involuntary movement:
I've seen it answered somewhere and I agree with it that Compel triggers Predator.

Signature action, Ice and Unique command:
Ice prevents all Unique actions including Signature actions.
When the Boss spawns, you use the Boss Challenge deck and stop advancing the MMC, so Unique command can happen only one time per turn.

Unique command and Shapeshift:
Monsters shapeshift at the end of Upkeep, so they can use their Unique actions on the same turn.
Since there are several Unique command on the MMC, they would shapeshift back and use the Unique actions from their basic form.
However, it's true that they won't use basic form's Unique actions before shapeshifting, which is a problem with the Lil Sprouts gang (unless you only shapeshift the Sprout when he takes 2 wounds).

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February 7th, 2018, 11:21 am
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Ninja Corps
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Joined: March 25th, 2012, 9:44 pm
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I disagree on loud slurping. It is, effectively, a green potion printed on all heroes. A hero can use any other hero's potion, so any potion token could be used by any hero for that purpose. However, being green, it can only be used once, during the consul turn, as well.


February 7th, 2018, 2:42 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Regarding point number one - I guess I should clairify. In the rules, minions are described as being bonded while within 2 squares of an elite. It boils down to how is exactly is 'being within' to be interpreted. Is it stricly to be understood as within 2 squares, ignoring all terrain (including walls); within two squares, ignoring all terrain except walls or within two squares worth of movement (ignoring all other models).?
An extension of this question would be - do Auras and similar effects go through walls? (not counting regular AOE's which require LOS)
I am personally of the opinion that they cannot.

Example: Is the Okoshroom in the picture bonded to 3 or 4 kinoshrooms?
Image

How about the voodoo doctor in this picture - is it bonded to 0, 1 or 2 minions?. It is surrounded by two walls and a structure. The minion on the far left is 'within two' but blocked by a solid wall. The one below is within 2 squares but effectively blocked movement-wise by the knight-statue
Image

Same example, but the wyrmling in this picture has flight, thus the lower minion is technically within 2 on account of movement.
Image

This can often come up when spawning gangs in tight spaces. Take the Dust Coven for example in the picture below. The Necromancer wants to spawn as close as possible to the hero with most wrath - hexcast sorceress in this example and the minions pile up around it keeping their distance to neighbours. 5 is easy to fit in, but the 6'th bonehead has to either spawn outside the wall or next to another model.
Image OR Image

Then we have the Rockers gang - in Caverns of Roxor 2.0, the gang has picked up burrow on the slowpokes and can thus move through walls. Would this spawn be correct?
Image

Wounds and Expendable
On more thorough reading I think I can answer question 3 myself. The rule reads
Quote:
'When and elite monster suffers one or more wounds, place the wound tokens on the closest bonded minions from the elite's gang that are within two squares instead. A minion may not be given more wound tokens thant the number of hearts it has remaining. .... Only when no bonded minions are within two squares will the elite suffer wounds itself'

Thus the damage will have to be fully distributed amongst all legible minions, one at a time.

unique actions
With respect to signature moves and unique commands I will also clairify my issue. Monsters always perfom Signature actions as either the very first action of a consul turn or immediately following the move command(s). Thus the general procedure during boss fight is [MOVE] - [Signature action] - [FIGHT] - [Challenge].
If the Unique command is then drawn from the challenge deck, will the boss perform the signature move again (because it is a unique action and the unique command makes monsters perform all unique actions on their cards) OR will it forego using it, since it has already done so earlier in the round.?


February 7th, 2018, 5:07 pm
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Minion
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Usagi wrote:
I disagree on loud slurping. It is, effectively, a green potion printed on all heroes. A hero can use any other hero's potion, so any potion token could be used by any hero for that purpose. However, being green, it can only be used once, during the consul turn, as well.

Yeah I think you're right. I re-read the rules and nothing says that it must be the Hero's potion token, so the sharing rule should be applied.

N0iR wrote:
unique actions
With respect to signature moves and unique commands I will also clairify my issue. Monsters always perfom Signature actions as either the very first action of a consul turn or immediately following the move command(s). Thus the general procedure during boss fight is [MOVE] - [Signature action] - [FIGHT] - [Challenge].
If the Unique command is then drawn from the challenge deck, will the boss perform the signature move again (because it is a unique action and the unique command makes monsters perform all unique actions on their cards) OR will it forego using it, since it has already done so earlier in the round.?

I missed your point in your first post, sorry. I am not sure in fact: Signature Actions are part of the Unique chapter in the rulebook (p27), but the rules don't mention specifically the Unique command. So I would say Signature Actions are not performed if a Unique command is drawn from the Challenge deck.

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February 7th, 2018, 7:05 pm
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Ninja Corps
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N0iR wrote:
unique actions
With respect to signature moves and unique commands I will also clairify my issue. Monsters always perfom Signature actions as either the very first action of a consul turn or immediately following the move command(s). Thus the general procedure during boss fight is [MOVE] - [Signature action] - [FIGHT] - [Challenge].
If the Unique command is then drawn from the challenge deck, will the boss perform the signature move again (because it is a unique action and the unique command makes monsters perform all unique actions on their cards) OR will it forego using it, since it has already done so earlier in the round.?


I'm not looking at the rules right now (i will try and look up something specific when I have more time). But, I believe there is something that stipulates that signature actions happen during the unique phase of a turn and no other time so long as there is a unique phase of the turn. If not, it follows the above rules. So, it will only happen once per turn (baring any very specific, special, rules on individual cards of course).


February 7th, 2018, 7:16 pm
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Minion
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N0iR wrote:
Regarding point number one - I guess I should clairify. In the rules, minions are described as being bonded while within 2 squares of an elite. It boils down to how is exactly is 'being within' to be interpreted. Is it stricly to be understood as within 2 squares, ignoring all terrain (including walls); within two squares, ignoring all terrain except walls or within two squares worth of movement (ignoring all other models).?
An extension of this question would be - do Auras and similar effects go through walls? (not counting regular AOE's which require LOS)
I am personally of the opinion that they cannot.

For Auras it is said in rulebook p37: To use an area effect, first determine which models are in squares that will be affected. Squares that the user cannot draw line of sight to are not affected.
So Auras don't go through walls.

For the placement of minions after their elite has moved, the rules don't specify a LoS requirement. But, as it was added in 2.0 for spawning point (p29) that monsters spawn in range and Los, I'd play something similar for the placement of minions.
At the very least, I would not place a minion on the other side of a wall. If a minion doesn't have LoS to his elite, at least it should have LoS to another bonded minion.

N0iR wrote:
Wounds and Expendable
On more thorough reading I think I can answer question 3 myself. The rule reads
Quote:
'When and elite monster suffers one or more wounds, place the wound tokens on the closest bonded minions from the elite's gang that are within two squares instead. A minion may not be given more wound tokens thant the number of hearts it has remaining. .... Only when no bonded minions are within two squares will the elite suffer wounds itself'

Thus the damage will have to be fully distributed amongst all legible minions, one at a time.

I had always played 1 attack = 1 minion but with the rules right before my eyes, I must admit you are right.

I hope all your questions have been given a satisfying answer.

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February 7th, 2018, 9:22 pm
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