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 Help! Clan differences and other questions 
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Denizen
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Joined: June 28th, 2014, 3:01 pm
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So I have recently got into SDE, purchasing a large set for my kids for this Christmas. We gave them FK and Ninja Ambush early so we could start playing (hiding all the other goodies for the next few months....so difficult). In doing this, I ended up purchasing the Dark kitsune model because.....well I have a fox girl obsession. I can admit to that (luckily my wife has a cosplay obsession so that's fine).

I use this model as a hidden shrine infiltrator, with slightly differrent rules. And I love it... but the model is so pretty I want to use it more. So, being moderately irresponsible and obsessed with tiny plastic mans I can paint, I have decided to purchase some NAS now too (luckily my wife doesn't know yet, so I am still alive). With that I have been trying to get a few questions answered so I know what to buy.

Fistly, what are the differences in the clans? I assume each plays differently, right? If so what are they like? The little excerpts I've found haven't been that helpful.

Question the second! Which clans are best? Which are the worst (or weakest)? Is their even a ranking? Are they evenly matched?

Numbah 3: Which is easiest to play? My 6yr old son has just started getting into gaming with us, and I want to include him (he loves the questing knight in SDE). He needs help in what to do, but seeing him have fun and try to figure it out is just great. I was thinking the monkey clan for him...but don't want to give him one of the more complex ones.

Finally....does dark kitsune work well with clan kitsune as a ronin, or is she redundant....I did mention a foxgirl obsession, yah? XD

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September 15th, 2016, 7:29 pm
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Ninja Corps
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An elevator timed breakdown of the clans:

Tora: Glass cannon style. very high attack, but not a solid defense. Arguably the best ranged units in the game

Ika: Defensive with strong board control. Probably the most annoying (in a good way for the person playing ika) oni of all the clans

Tanchyo: extremely mobile. Billed as the ranged clan, but their primary ranged units (the yajiri) are really only maybe 3rd best of the clans. Very good Madoushi and the Chunin can be a ranged monster though.

Kitsune: Often considered the weakest clan. I don't agree. They are the hardest to play and require a lot of finesse. They rely more on stealth than other clans and are slightly faster, on average.. They have the Yajiri that could possibly be better than the Tora yajiri (which one is actually best depends on play style more tan anything).

Yamazaru (the monkeys): These guys are extremely survivable (and easy to play). They have some of the best raw stats of any clan making them slightly above average n both offense and defense. Their available skill set can make them nearly impossible to take off the board with a little luck.

Ijin: Highly offensive clan. Often considered to be the "best" clan. They can handle toe to toe combat quite well and have easy access to haste in their available skills, so ca become very dangerous.

The dark kitsune ronin would be fairly redundant if used in a Kitsune clan team. There is a fair amount of overlap in what they are capable of. That's not to say that's a bad thing, necessarily. Doubling down on strengths isn't always a bad thing.

It's worth mentioning that the base set of the game comes with a rulebook that has complete rules for all the clans as well. So, if you have the chance, it's worthwhile to get just the base set, and use the provided shrine ninja to proxy clan teams and see which clans you like, play style wise, before committing to buying any of them, as well. The shrine teams are a bit smaller than the allowance limits for clan teams (not enough madoushi, no oni proxy). But, most gamer types can easily compensate for that for a couple games easily enough.

All of the clans (in my opinion, obviously) look amazing as far as the minis go, as well. So, on a "i just like great minis" basis, they are all worth it on that alone.


September 15th, 2016, 11:07 pm
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Minion
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Kias Metres wrote:
So I have recently got into SDE, purchasing a large set for my kids for this Christmas. We gave them FK and Ninja Ambush early so we could start playing (hiding all the other goodies for the next few months....so difficult). In doing this, I ended up purchasing the Dark kitsune model because.....well I have a fox girl obsession. I can admit to that (luckily my wife has a cosplay obsession so that's fine).

I use this model as a hidden shrine infiltrator, with slightly differrent rules. And I love it... but the model is so pretty I want to use it more. So, being moderately irresponsible and obsessed with tiny plastic mans I can paint, I have decided to purchase some NAS now too (luckily my wife doesn't know yet, so I am still alive). With that I have been trying to get a few questions answered so I know what to buy.

Fistly, what are the differences in the clans? I assume each plays differently, right? If so what are they like? The little excerpts I've found haven't been that helpful.

Question the second! Which clans are best? Which are the worst (or weakest)? Is their even a ranking? Are they evenly matched?

Numbah 3: Which is easiest to play? My 6yr old son has just started getting into gaming with us, and I want to include him (he loves the questing knight in SDE). He needs help in what to do, but seeing him have fun and try to figure it out is just great. I was thinking the monkey clan for him...but don't want to give him one of the more complex ones.

Finally....does dark kitsune work well with clan kitsune as a ronin, or is she redundant....I did mention a foxgirl obsession, yah? XD


RAW the Kitsune are, sadly, the weakest clan by a good margin. Ijin are strongest.

Kitsune in a loooooong league can aspire to be middle of the pack.


September 15th, 2016, 11:31 pm
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Denizen
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Usagi wrote:
An elevator timed breakdown of the clans:

Tora: Glass cannon style. very high attack, but not a solid defense. Arguably the best ranged units in the game

Ika: Defensive with strong board control. Probably the most annoying (in a good way for the person playing ika) oni of all the clans

Tanchyo: extremely mobile. Billed as the ranged clan, but their primary ranged units (the yajiri) are really only maybe 3rd best of the clans. Very good Madoushi and the Chunin can be a ranged monster though.

Kitsune: Often considered the weakest clan. I don't agree. They are the hardest to play and require a lot of finesse. They rely more on stealth than other clans and are slightly faster, on average.. They have the Yajiri that could possibly be better than the Tora yajiri (which one is actually best depends on play style more tan anything).

Yamazaru (the monkeys): These guys are extremely survivable (and easy to play). They have some of the best raw stats of any clan making them slightly above average n both offense and defense. Their available skill set can make them nearly impossible to take off the board with a little luck.

Ijin: Highly offensive clan. Often considered to be the "best" clan. They can handle toe to toe combat quite well and have easy access to haste in their available skills, so ca become very dangerous.

The dark kitsune ronin would be fairly redundant if used in a Kitsune clan team. There is a fair amount of overlap in what they are capable of. That's not to say that's a bad thing, necessarily. Doubling down on strengths isn't always a bad thing.

It's worth mentioning that the base set of the game comes with a rulebook that has complete rules for all the clans as well. So, if you have the chance, it's worthwhile to get just the base set, and use the provided shrine ninja to proxy clan teams and see which clans you like, play style wise, before committing to buying any of them, as well. The shrine teams are a bit smaller than the allowance limits for clan teams (not enough madoushi, no oni proxy). But, most gamer types can easily compensate for that for a couple games easily enough.

All of the clans (in my opinion, obviously) look amazing as far as the minis go, as well. So, on a "i just like great minis" basis, they are all worth it on that alone.


Thankyou! This seems to be all i need. I'm sad the dark kitsune is redundant and potentially weaker (or just more difficult to play well), but that might be ok.

Ika having board control peaks my interest. In relic knights I thrive on compel/push/pull abuse, and the little O have found in sde is always great. Also....cthulu!

Ps:awesome palm top tiger :D

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The Noh Empire is not a melee-centric force.


September 16th, 2016, 12:20 am
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Mini-Boss
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I just started a kitsune team in my last game. I found them to be hilarious but they are super defensive so any mission type where you have to go somewhere/get something they are at a disadvantage i think. Again 1 game in and played a 4 person assassinate so i need more games to see what i can do with them. The tora are fairly deverse actually. the tora can specialize either offense or defense. The tanchyo are glass cannons great at offense and getting into back stab but can not defend at all. The ika are good at frustrating everyone else you play with (blue counter style, magic the gathering). Ijin are fairly easy to play as well super forgiving and get like 3 offensive combat buff skills. Yamazaru immortal slow as molasses tanks but also very forgiving as having good stats for offense and defense like the ijin.


September 16th, 2016, 1:24 am
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Ninja Corps
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vreeleader wrote:
I just started a kitsune team in my last game. I found them to be hilarious but they are super defensive so any mission type where you have to go somewhere/get something they are at a disadvantage i think. Again 1 game in and played a 4 person assassinate so i need more games to see what i can do with them. The tora are fairly deverse actually. the tora can specialize either offense or defense. The tanchyo are glass cannons great at offense and getting into back stab but can not defend at all. The ika are good at frustrating everyone else you play with (blue counter style, magic the gathering). Ijin are fairly easy to play as well super forgiving and get like 3 offensive combat buff skills. Yamazaru immortal slow as molasses tanks but also very forgiving as having good stats for offense and defense like the ijin.


Kitsune can be highly mobile after leveling a little. They have unfettered access to the blink keyword which is insanely good on kunoichi and yajiri. Also, the yajiri are amazing for any targeted combat, like assassination. They have a 3 die stealthy ranged attack with a high chance of poisoning even when the attack does nothing.

I can attest to the slowness of Yamazaru. But really only for their chunin and oni. everything else is average speed for it's unit type. But they are just stones on the field. they are so hard to take down. Across something like an 8 game league my Yamazaru oni was only ever sent to the healing house once once. Grated, he got lucky and got +1 defense after the first game. But it still took an Ijin oni with help (and three tries) to put him down once ever.


September 16th, 2016, 1:45 pm
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Mini-Boss
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Loved playing ika that was fun too but i let one of my friends take over that team because he chose the kitsune as his first choice and did not have one guy level up until the forth game. He gave mvp to who did something that made him laugh in his games rather than what i assume most people do who gives the mvp to whoever is closest to leveling. he was getting left behind pretty bad by ijin and tanchyo teams so i gave him ika and with their superior board control he hasn't done so badly.


September 16th, 2016, 2:52 pm
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Bottle Cap
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That'll teach me to pick Kitsune because they look awesome. Lol.

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September 16th, 2016, 8:07 pm
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The kitsune are probably the hardest to play but can be really good especially in assassinate game where they have to come to you to get points. Brawl i would also assume would be good for the kitsune for the same reason. The kitsune all have above average speed on most units the only exception is the kunoichi and oni which are average speed. So they probably are at an advantage to most clans in king of the hill and intercept the messenger but have only played one league game of king of the hill i was the ika at the time and it was fun watching my enemies try to take the hill from two oni and the chunin.


September 16th, 2016, 11:45 pm
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vreeleader wrote:
The kitsune are probably the hardest to play but can be really good especially in assassinate game where they have to come to you to get points. Brawl i would also assume would be good for the kitsune for the same reason. The kitsune all have above average speed on most units the only exception is the kunoichi and oni which are average speed. So they probably are at an advantage to most clans in king of the hill and intercept the messenger but have only played one league game of king of the hill i was the ika at the time and it was fun watching my enemies try to take the hill from two oni and the chunin.


The kitsune aren't nearly as bad as most profess. At the beginning they level a little slower than most, but they end up hitting the first leveling plateau right around the same time as other clans. Spirit mastery gives a bit more survival than many clans (except yamazaru). They are good at, and rely fairly heavily on stealth. This can be good and bad as there are a few hard counters to stealth (vigilance keyword, the hero Mizaru, etc.). But, without those, stealth can be a real stymie. Direct access to luck and blink is very good as well. Kitsune don't have a lot of hard combat buffs across their keywords, it's true. But they have access to a lot of very good utility abilities that can really help with objective completion.

I also can't fully describe the irritation of trying to chase a blinking, stealthed, kitsune yajiri from rooftop to rooftop. :P


September 17th, 2016, 12:26 am
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Mini-Boss
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I thought any affinity check made you lose stealth?


September 17th, 2016, 2:08 am
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vreeleader wrote:
I thought any affinity check made you lose stealth?


I ignore that rule based mostly on the fact that the search action is stealthy but requires an affinity check and the fact the negative shrines become lanterns plus at that point. I don't know if it was a rules artifact that made it in there by accident or if it's just a really ad rules choice. But I'll be fair and say I totally ignore that rules caveat. If you do follow it, it makes stealth a totally pointless thing to even have in the game after your team gets a couple levels. It makes stealth for almost all madoushi totally useless. every keyword that gives positive conditions makes stealth totally useless (I think they aren't even optional, though I'm going purely from memory). For he game being generally very good. that is a bad rule that s contradicted regularly by other rules and apparent intent of many rules.


September 17th, 2016, 2:58 pm
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I enjoy the game greatly but we play slightly modified as well. We get an extra card at every upkeep.


September 17th, 2016, 5:21 pm
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I have a thread full of house rule ideas (that I, personally do and don't use all of) here viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5090

I don't think the one for affinity tests is actually on there. I should add it if it's not.


September 18th, 2016, 12:01 am
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