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 House rules for Ninja All Stars 
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Minion
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Usagi wrote:
I added some alternative injury rules to the league section to replace the rule for rolling a die for ninja in the healing house at the end of the game. They have permanent potential penalties, and are more consistent than just being based on who is hurt at the end of the game.
I like this idea, but I'm concerned it will effect the balance when it comes to Clans and Ninja who sacrifice defence. I've been playing Ijin in the league, and they die pretty easily, as do Kunoichi. It would be a shame if those guys were penalized for just being themselves. Managing who is left in recovery at the end seems more fair in that regard.


January 31st, 2016, 8:06 pm
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Smacks wrote:
Usagi wrote:
I added some alternative injury rules to the league section to replace the rule for rolling a die for ninja in the healing house at the end of the game. They have permanent potential penalties, and are more consistent than just being based on who is hurt at the end of the game.
I like this idea, but I'm concerned it will effect the balance when it comes to Clans and Ninja who sacrifice defence. I've been playing Ijin in the league, and they die pretty easily, as do Kunoichi. It would be a shame if those guys were penalized for just being themselves. Managing who is left in recovery at the end seems more fair in that regard.


well, the system I'm going to try, the one by me (shockingly :P), isn't really that harsh, statistically. The highest odds of something happening to any given ninja is ~1 in 3 (if they are rolling 3 dice, looking for one pair). And that's only if a ninja gets injured 3 times in one game. So, while not impossible, it's somewhat hard. Twice is more common, but that only yields 1-in-6 odds of something happening. If something does happen, it's only a 1 in 3 that it's permanent (between injury and retirement), 1 in 3 temporary (miss matches) and 1 in 3 neutral to beneficial. So, the best chances of losing a player are about 1 in 9, and that's if you let that player get nailed 3+ Times.

I don't deny that this can impact strategies. Every rules change made will do that. It just may mean that if the player has a ninja they value as a very useful team member, it may cause them to use them more judiciously, or understand the risk.

The inclusion of a rule like this (either mine or other versions) comes from years of bloodbowl experience. Knowing that you have to have something that can cycle team members, if even a little. You then see teams do more than just move up a linear power curve, and gain team rating steadily. It can drop off as well. This makes room to buy new team members and makes sure teams have something to do with accumulating money as well.

This did remind me to go back and edit my rule though and add that if a ninja is missing matches, they don't count towards the teams calculated rating.


February 1st, 2016, 3:39 am
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I want to get a basic structure for an alternative version of team handicapping going. That is, to replace the "one re-roll per difference in team rating" thing. I don't want to exclude what currently exists. Just alter and expand it. So, I'm going to throw out a sample system, with some sample stuff to do with it. I'm happy to hear discussion and suggestions on way to alter the system, or things to add to it, it's all open game right now.

Base handicap: multiple the difference in team rating by 5. The lower rated team gains the result in Koban to spend in the ninja shop. For example, a team rated 12 versus a team rated at 16 would result in 20 koban for the team rated 12.

This koban is temporary, and will be lost after the beginning of the game, if not spent in the shop. Either team may spend their own, saved, koban in this shop before the game as well.

All purchases are only usable in the current game (unless otherwise stated) and are lost, even if unused, at the end of the game.

Choices:
1KB:
-Poisoned Shuriken Token: You may discard this token when any ninja makes a shuriken attack. Regardless of the outcome of the attack if the attackers die comes up water, the defender is poisoned. If it comes up air the defender is slowed. If it comes up spirit, the defender is cursed.

2KB:
-Reroll Token: As per reroll tokens in the manual

3KB:
-Smoke Bomb Token: At the beginning, or end, of any ninja's movement you may discard a smoke bomb token to create obscuring terrain in that ninja's influence zone. This terrain remains until the end of the round.

4KB:
-One Koban: You may add one koban to your team's total. This remains even after the game has ended. (max 6)

5KB:
-Invisibility potion: You may use the potion to place 1 more ninja on the field than the maximum allowed. This may be done during setup or during the deployment of models during upkeep of any round. In either case, the last ninja placed will automatically be in stealth, regardless of scenario rules.

6KB:
-Acupuncture Treatment: Choose one ninja on your team and roll two dice. That ninja may choose any one keyword from the general list or any element the rolled dice match. If doubles are rolled the ninja may choose a keyword from the general list, the rolled element or may take the level up bonus associated with the doubles. For example +1 attack for double fire element or +1 defense for double water.

8KB:
-Moon Power Token: As per the moon power token bonus in the manual.
-Commemorative Forehead Protector: You may choose one additional All-Star at the end of the game. It must be different from any other chosen All-Star this game. The bonus XP is not lost at the end of the game.

Temporary Ronin:
Any ronin (still respecting league specific rules, such as unique ronin) may be hired with bonus koban. To do so, half the base cost of the ronin (rounding down) and add it's upkeep cost to that to get it's single game cost. For example Howl & Yip would cost 16KB. They have a base cost of 23. Halved and rounded down becomes 11, plus their upkeep cost of 5 is 16.

I definitely want to add more to this. So I would love to hear some suggestions. Also comments on what is there, and how I may have missed it being broken. :P


February 2nd, 2016, 9:33 pm
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Usagi wrote:
I want to get a basic structure for an alternative version of team handicapping going. That is, to replace the "one re-roll per difference in team rating" thing. I don't want to exclude what currently exists. Just alter and expand it. So, I'm going to throw out a sample system, with some sample stuff to do with it. I'm happy to hear discussion and suggestions on way to alter the system, or things to add to it, it's all open game right now.

Base handicap: multiple the difference in team rating by 5. The lower rated team gains the result in Koban to spend in the ninja shop. For example, a team rated 12 versus a team rated at 16 would result in 20 koban for the team rated 12.

This koban is temporary, and will be lost after the beginning of the game, if not spent in the shop. Either team may spend their own, saved, koban in this shop before the game as well.

All purchases are only usable in the current game (unless otherwise stated) and are lost, even if unused, at the end of the game.

Choices:
1KB:
-Poisoned Shuriken Token: You may discard this token when any ninja makes a shuriken attack. Regardless of the outcome of the attack if the attackers die comes up water, the defender is poisoned. If it comes up air the defender is slowed. If it comes up spirit, the defender is cursed.

2KB:
-Reroll Token: As per reroll tokens in the manual

3KB:
-Smoke Bomb Token: At the beginning, or end, of any ninja's movement you may discard a smoke bomb token to create obscuring terrain in that ninja's influence zone. This terrain remains until the end of the round.

4KB:
-One Koban: You may add one koban to your team's total. This remains even after the game has ended. (max 6)

5KB:
-Invisibility potion: You may use the potion to place 1 more ninja on the field than the maximum allowed. This may be done during setup or during the deployment of models during upkeep of any round. In either case, the last ninja placed will automatically be in stealth, regardless of scenario rules.

6KB:
-Acupuncture Treatment: Choose one ninja on your team and roll two dice. That ninja may choose any one keyword from the general list or any element the rolled dice match. If doubles are rolled the ninja may choose a keyword from the general list, the rolled element or may take the level up bonus associated with the doubles. For example +1 attack for double fire element or +1 defense for double water.

8KB:
-Moon Power Token: As per the moon power token bonus in the manual.
-Commemorative Forehead Protector: You may choose one additional All-Star at the end of the game. It must be different from any other chosen All-Star this game. The bonus XP is not lost at the end of the game.

Temporary Ronin:
Any ronin (still respecting league specific rules, such as unique ronin) may be hired with bonus koban. To do so, half the base cost of the ronin (rounding down) and add it's upkeep cost to that to get it's single game cost. For example Howl & Yip would cost 16KB. They have a base cost of 23. Halved and rounded down becomes 11, plus their upkeep cost of 5 is 16.

I definitely want to add more to this. So I would love to hear some suggestions. Also comments on what is there, and how I may have missed it being broken. :P


Pretty cool stuff here. ;)


February 3rd, 2016, 3:30 am
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ND_David wrote:
Pretty cool stuff here. ;)


Encouraging to hear. Thanks! ^_^

Some addictions to the list (so I don't forget them later):

2KB:
- Fire Scroll: When one of your ninja is attacked you may use a fire scroll to skip normal combat and immediately resolve the attack as though the fire element were chosen. If the attacker has Precision Strike, it is ignored when resolving this attack.

3KB:
- Expired Tea: When you send an opposing ninja to the healing house, you may use this to add a delay token to that ninja.
- Healing Incense: During your upkeep you may use this item to move 1 additional ninja from the healing house to the training grounds.

4KB:
- Moon Charm: You may discard a Moon Charm when playing a moon card to use the second effect even if it is not currently the proper moon phase.


February 3rd, 2016, 4:59 am
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We've been playing a lot of Brawl games and I'd like to propose a house rule that makes the scenario "feel" better, in my opinion.

Quote:
Hero and Ronin models count as Chunin for purposes of VP scoring


It feels strange that Hero/Ronin models should get 2 VPs for injuring an opposing Chunin when the they are usually equal to or stronger than a Chunin (at least in early league play). It also feels strange that other models (Kaiken, etc) only get 1 VP for injuring a Hero/Ronin, as they usually have resilient, in addition to good stats. This rule makes it feel more rewarding when you manage to take down these powerful models.

Again, this could change if a league has gone on long and now the non-Hero/Ronins are outclassing them, but I feel most games will be played where this is not the case, and plus it adds a interesting twist that deep into a league it may not be tactically optimal to load up with heroes for this one scenario.

WDYT?


February 3rd, 2016, 5:50 pm
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I had an idea, for a wacky combat mod. where you can use an Air result to throw ninja into other ninja, either as an attack or to perform combos. All you need to do is place the thrown ninja adjacent to the ninja you want to throw him at, and then roll to see what happens.

If you throw him into an enemy ninja, then it works like an attack with one dice, the defender rolls his standard defence.

Spirit = The thrown Ninja KOed
Void = The second Ninja KOed
Earth = Second ninja stunned.
Fire = All ninja adjacent to the thrown ninja are stunned (including the thrown ninja)
Air = Ninja is caught by his buddy (defender moves thrown ninja up to 3)
Water = Both Ninja take a tumble (attacker moves 2nd ninja, defender moves thrown ninja)

You can also throw him to a friendly ninja to try and do a combo attack. The 2nd ninja rolls his standard attack dice, the first ninja is reduced to 1 defence.

Void = Thrown ninja KOed
Earth = Thrown Ninja Stunned
Fire = Body Slam!... move the thrown ninja up to 3 spaces, then centre a fire result on him.
Water = Standard water result
Air = Throw him again! Thrown ninja picks up a stun.
Spirit = Oops! You accidentally KOed your buddy (you really should practice those combos back in the dojo)

Receiving a throw doesn't effect the 2nd ninja's activation. If the ninja is thrown at a ninja on a 3rd team, the thrower can decide weather it is an attack or a combo (The thrower always gets any XP or points due for KOs).


February 4th, 2016, 1:42 am
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PeteTSM wrote:
It feels strange that Hero/Ronin models should get 2 VPs for injuring an opposing Chunin when the they are usually equal to or stronger than a Chunin (at least in early league play). It also feels strange that other models (Kaiken, etc) only get 1 VP for injuring a Hero/Ronin, as they usually have resilient, in addition to good stats. This rule makes it feel more rewarding when you manage to take down these powerful models.


Add Oni to the list too!

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February 4th, 2016, 2:03 am
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Cat wrote:
PeteTSM wrote:
It feels strange that Hero/Ronin models should get 2 VPs for injuring an opposing Chunin when the they are usually equal to or stronger than a Chunin (at least in early league play). It also feels strange that other models (Kaiken, etc) only get 1 VP for injuring a Hero/Ronin, as they usually have resilient, in addition to good stats. This rule makes it feel more rewarding when you manage to take down these powerful models.


Add Oni to the list too!


Adding heroes and ronin to the list isn't a bad idea. I wouldn't add oni though. They really don't rise to that level. The hardest hitting oni can be taken down by the weakest yajiri, and the hardest to take own oni can barely thump a kunoichi a good one. The rest fall somewhere in the middle. But, with the Ika oni being, arguably, the strongest on, and everything else coming in under that...they aren't on the same level as (most) heroes or ronin.


February 4th, 2016, 4:13 am
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I put the handicap shop on the front page, but it's still 100% up for critique/addition/debate/whatnot.

I also took out the scenarios section as there's a whole board dedicated to that on the forum. It also has some good stuff on it already!


February 4th, 2016, 6:22 am
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Those handicap store offerings are neat (I'm gonna have to figure out how to make a bunch of new tokens, aren't I?) Your acupuncture one will only affect the ninja for one game though, right? Otherwise it's a bit intense.

Next topic, Tamamo no Mae. I keep looking at her stat block and I just can't figure out why you'd pick her. She might be marginally better at locking down certain targets than a standard kunoichi, but she won't level up to get cool keywords or stat boosts. She just doesn't seem to be worth taking, which is a shame, because the model is suuuuper great. Maybe we can spruce her up a bit (or a lot).

New stat block: mv 7 at 2 df 2 kb 24 (stick with me)

Hero, nimble, resilient

allure: At the beginning of each round, choose one model. Until the end of the round, whenever the chosen model is in Tamamo no Mae's influence zone, any combat results that would stun or injure Tamamo no Mae instead affect the chosen model.

Boom.


February 4th, 2016, 2:07 pm
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obligatorysalmon wrote:
Next topic, Tamamo no Mae...because the model is suuuuper great..


Buffing up the cute models so they become worthwhile to use is a very good plan!

To start wih, I'll just be using her model in place of one of my Madoushi. I'm also using the Dark Kitsune model for my Chunin, And I'll probably use one of the Kitsune Kunoichi models in place of the obligatory Kaiken.

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February 4th, 2016, 2:42 pm
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obligatorysalmon wrote:

Next topic, Tamamo no Mae. I keep looking at her stat block and I just can't figure out why you'd pick her. She might be marginally better at locking down certain targets than a standard kunoichi, but she won't level up to get cool keywords or stat boosts. She just doesn't seem to be worth taking, which is a shame, because the model is suuuuper great. Maybe we can spruce her up a bit (or a lot).

New stat block: mv 7 at 2 df 2 kb 24 (stick with me)

Hero, nimble, resilient

allure: At the beginning of each round, choose one model. Until the end of the round, whenever the chosen model is in Tamamo no Mae's influence zone, any combat results that would stun or injure Tamamo no Mae instead affect the chosen model.


I've been thinking about how to buff her too. My thoughts were to keep her stat block the same (maybe adjusting her koban after my mods below, or lower her attack) but change her allure:

Allure: When she activates roll affinity test-- on succeed she may use her action to pick 1 model with LOS to her and within 3 spaces. She may then move that model up to 3 spaces (ignore influence zones and terrain) and perform 1 attack (note this could be a friendly or enemy, already activated or otherwise). This does not affect that model's activation.

Makes for a unique character, (hopefully) not too imbalanced but still dangerous, and power is dynamic (i.e., depends on who she controls).

Or a variant would be:

Change allure to be all enemies with LOS to her and in her influence zone, but keep the ability intact, or change it to stun (admittedly this makes it an auto-precision strike roll of fire element, but maybe unique enough). Most important: give her Entangle with this change.

Frankly, I like option 1 better it changes the wording for Allure but keeps her stat lines etc.


February 4th, 2016, 3:11 pm
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interesting. can one attack one's own models?


February 4th, 2016, 5:08 pm
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obligatorysalmon wrote:
Those handicap store offerings are neat (I'm gonna have to figure out how to make a bunch of new tokens, aren't I?) Your acupuncture one will only affect the ninja for one game though, right? Otherwise it's a bit intense.[/qiote]

Yeah. The only handicap bonuses that are permanent, currently, are the ones that mimic the ones in the base rules. The one that gives bonus All Stars at the end of the match and the one that adds "real" koban to the treasury. Everything else lasts one game or expires even if unused by the end of the game.

obligatorysalmon wrote:
Next topic, Tamamo no Mae. I keep looking at her stat block and I just can't figure out why you'd pick her. She might be marginally better at locking down certain targets than a standard kunoichi, but she won't level up to get cool keywords or stat boosts. She just doesn't seem to be worth taking, which is a shame, because the model is suuuuper great. Maybe we can spruce her up a bit (or a lot).

New stat block: mv 7 at 2 df 2 kb 24 (stick with me)

Hero, nimble, resilient

allure: At the beginning of each round, choose one model. Until the end of the round, whenever the chosen model is in Tamamo no Mae's influence zone, any combat results that would stun or injure Tamamo no Mae instead affect the chosen model.

Boom.


I like this idea. But, there needs to be affinity tests involved. Otherwise she just becomes, basically, a permanent assist to the opponent's chunin/oni/other hard target because she becomes invulverable until that model is dead. So the original use of the ability or each redirection of damage.

I guess without affinity checks it would just make hitting her a two stage affair, trying to move her away, then trying to damage her. I'm not sure which benefit fits her cost better at this point. But it's a good idea for a revamp on her (she really does need one).


February 4th, 2016, 5:52 pm
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Baliw wrote:
I've been thinking about how to buff her too. My thoughts were to keep her stat block the same (maybe adjusting her koban after my mods below, or lower her attack) but change her allure:

Allure: When she activates roll affinity test-- on succeed she may use her action to pick 1 model with LOS to her and within 3 spaces. She may then move that model up to 3 spaces (ignore influence zones and terrain) and perform 1 attack (note this could be a friendly or enemy, already activated or otherwise). This does not affect that model's activation.

Makes for a unique character, (hopefully) not too imbalanced but still dangerous, and power is dynamic (i.e., depends on who she controls).


I like this idea as well. But, I would change it to her being able to do that as her action. She could move before doing it that way, it becomes a little more tactical.

I would also add a line like "tamamo's player rolls the attacking model's dive and makes any decisions for it". Otherwise you would, very often, have someone rolling against themselves and picking benign results.

Wolf357 wrote:
interesting. can one attack one's own models?


Not normally, that I know of. But, special abilities are specifically designed to break the rules of the game.


February 4th, 2016, 5:57 pm
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Usagi wrote:
I like this idea. But, there needs to be affinity tests involved. Otherwise she just becomes, basically, a permanent assist to the opponent's chunin/oni/other hard target because she becomes invulverable until that model is dead. So the original use of the ability or each redirection of damage.

I guess without affinity checks it would just make hitting her a two stage affair, trying to move her away, then trying to damage her. I'm not sure which benefit fits her cost better at this point. But it's a good idea for a revamp on her (she really does need one).


She also isn't locking the enemy model down in this version, and yeah, an attacker would pick air or water over void or earth.

Still, it would also work well to say she costs, say, 22 kb instead, and have this text for allure:

"Whenever Tamamo no Mae is attacked, and the result of the combat would injure or stun her, if there is at least one other ninja in her influence zone, she may make an affinity test. On a success, Tomamo no Mae's player will choose one of the adjacent ninja, and the stun or injure effect is applied to that ninja instead."

I just like the idea that she's bewitching her enemies (or friends!) into shielding her from harm. This would also mean fire could double stun someone.


Last edited by obligatorysalmon on February 5th, 2016, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



February 5th, 2016, 12:57 pm
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Here's another hero that needs tweaking.

Yobuko

This guy's awesome, but I hate his ability text with a fiery passion. New text:

"Supreme Master of the Fist: If at least one enemy model on the board has an attack or defense attribute equal to or greater than Yobuko's Attack attribute, one of those models must be designated as his "rival" for the entirety of the match. Yobuko gets +1 AT when attacking his rival. During his activation, if Yobuko ends his movement farther away from his rival than his initial position, then he suffers a curse token (for being cowardly) immediately after movement ends. If Yobuko can attack his rival but chooses not to, he suffers a curse token after his activation. Yobuko will never be cursed as a result of combat movement."

The old version is bad, because it's trying to AI the model and is pretty sloppy about it. If they wanted to go for a frenzy effect, I would rewrite it like this:

"Blah blah blah "rival." If Yobuko has line of sight to his rival, and is not already adjacent to his rival, he moves in a straight line directly toward his rival, ignoring models and influence zones. If he is not adjacent to his rival at the end of his movement, he will use his action to run, if he can, continuing to move as above. Any models Yobuko passes through during this movement are pushed one space by Yobuko's player. If Yobuko is adjacent to his rival, he may attempt to move, so long as the movement allows him to remain adjacent to his rival. Yobuko must use his action to attack his rival, if possible. When attacking his rival, he gets a +1 to AT, and spirit results stun, rather than injure Yobuko."


February 5th, 2016, 1:19 pm
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Usagi wrote:
Baliw wrote:
I've been thinking about how to buff her too. My thoughts were to keep her stat block the same (maybe adjusting her koban after my mods below, or lower her attack) but change her allure:

Allure: When she activates roll affinity test-- on succeed she may use her action to pick 1 model with LOS to her and within 3 spaces. She may then move that model up to 3 spaces (ignore influence zones and terrain) and perform 1 attack (note this could be a friendly or enemy, already activated or otherwise). This does not affect that model's activation.

Makes for a unique character, (hopefully) not too imbalanced but still dangerous, and power is dynamic (i.e., depends on who she controls).


I like this idea as well. But, I would change it to her being able to do that as her action. She could move before doing it that way, it becomes a little more tactical.

I would also add a line like "tamamo's player rolls the attacking model's dive and makes any decisions for it". Otherwise you would, very often, have someone rolling against themselves and picking benign results.


I agree on both counts :) The nuance of your suggestion does make it more tactical; I do want to stress that since (powerful or not) "controlling another player's model" annoys players that it takes an affinity test plus her action, and doesn't take away the opponent model's action. Not really a new idea, I got this mainly from a similar ability/spell mechanic in Warmachine :D

Usagi wrote:
Wolf357 wrote:
interesting. can one attack one's own models?


Not normally, that I know of. But, special abilities are specifically designed to break the rules of the game.


Correct; however technically speaking this is not an "attack" :) It's in the similar vein to buffing or adding an enchantment mechanic to a friendly model.

After our family mini-league I'll try it.


February 5th, 2016, 1:45 pm
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Usagi

You might want to float the alternative handicap list into it's own thread over in the League/Scenario section. I think league organizers will be interested in this going forward.


February 5th, 2016, 2:24 pm
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