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 What all to get. 
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Joined: March 7th, 2013, 5:03 am
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Location: Great Falls, MT
I recently picked up a copy of this and the super dungeon crossover box and was wondering if anyone had advice as to what all to pick up of the extra stuff for this and in what orders and what they do for the game. My son and I have loved super dungeon since the first release and have been avid fans ever since. We've gotten everything for it one way or another ever since and thought we would give this a try and I thought it might be a good idea to pop on and ask for advice if possible. Thank you in advance.

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March 5th, 2017, 4:01 am
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I feel the best suggestion is to stop and play the core game first. Ninja All-Stars is almost nothing like SDE. It has a very heavy emphasis on tactics and strategy to the point where it almost never rewards random decisions. Unlike SDE that plays like Gauntlet where you can steamroll through baddies, simply choosing to kill something in this game won't give you that satisfaction. If you land a kill in this game, it will primarily be because you got really lucky or because you outplayed your opponent over the course of several turns. Kills in this game are a big deal and you won't be seeing many of them.

I hope that didn't sound negative because it wasn't meant to be. I love Ninja All-Stars. Many disagree but I think it's the best product to come from these guys.


March 5th, 2017, 5:46 am
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Minion
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I suggest you try the game to first to see if you like it. For 2 major reasons I think Ninja All-Stars is a commercial flop. 1. Tom Vasel gave it a very bad review and 2. Even in Finland I see stores constantly trying to get rid of the base game box with heavy discounts (90€ -> 45€). I personally haven't given the game a fair try except a few solo turns, but if it gets 2nd Edition, hoping it gets a complete rules overhaul: No backstabs, rethink the dice system (Arcadia Quest or Imperial Assault) and there were some skills I didn't like, but don't remember them out of my head.


March 5th, 2017, 6:22 am
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Ninja Corps
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Not to get into it all again, but Tom Vasel's review of the game just screamed how ignorant he was of the game. I'm quite well versed in the ins and outs of NAS and could barely tell what game he was describing (within a margin of hyperbole there).

That said, the base game is really more on an introductory/proxy set for the "real" game which is uch more like Bloodbowl than a more traditional boxed game.

I agree that it is a more tactical game. But I disagree that killing takes "several turns" to achieve. Across the leagues that I have played, were I to ballpark an average, between both teams in a game, you usually see about 1.5 kills a turn. Less if it's a less confronting scenario like searching crates, more if it's more head to head like king of the hill. The dice mechanics are fine as they are, once again, very inspired by Bloodbowl. What that means, in sort of general terms, is that the results of a spontaneous skirmish can be fairly widely randomized. But, the more planning and maneuvering you put into your attacks, the more the odds swing in your favor. But, the results, in any case, are still leaning on the slightly more random than reliable side as there's no bell curve when it comes to each die face being a different result, not a quantitative result.

The only real flaws to me come in with some of a handful of abilities or keywords having inadequate descriptions of what they do, requiring judgement calls/house rules for them or some combinations of abilities/keywords resulting in the same muddiness. (and a couple keywords that are just useless and should never be taken :P)

As for what to do after getting the base set. The real "meat" of the game comes with not the shrine team one-off matches but with the clan teams. Played over time, gaining XP and levels. The core set lets you experiment with this by including the full rules and unit lists for all the ninja clans and something like 90% of the ronin. You can use the models it comes with as proxies for these teams, and experiment with the clans to find what you like. Then you can get the clan boxes for said clan that come with all the models you'll need to play any type of team they could build.

As a bit of a final word, ultimately, you're going to have to be the one that decides weather or not you like the game. Quite a few people were disappointed by it. But, from my perspective at least, it appears that many of them were just expecting a totally different, combat oriented, game and not a tactical competition game. So they judged it as a bad combat game. To me that's like saying a tasty cake is terrible because it just fell apart when you put it on your car and tried to drive on it. I can't say any of that for sure. But, in the flurry of negativity, that seemed to be a very common trend among detractors. often commenting on how it was really hard to just kill things lots on the board. lay it for what it is, and see if it's the kind of game you like. I think it's quite fun, only really needing a little bit of clean up on some details.


March 5th, 2017, 9:48 am
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Joined: January 26th, 2017, 6:39 pm
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I agree with Usagi, the critic of the game are not very good but game is great. It' s avery good combat game and with the league system it's nice. Something are similat to BB, but NAS for me is better than BB, more simply, more fast, more funny (3-4 players)

I dont understand why people dont like the dice combat system, it's original, but not perfect i agree with that. Here i changed one little thing, attacker can choose only in his dice pool, not in defense dice pool. More fun, hazardous is fun.

Game is fast like told usagi, many kill in a round, with the combat system attacking is better, with the respawn it's very funny, game never stop, no frustating game.

I think it was better to put clans in box no shrine, and price of ronin are crazy, too much expensive.

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March 5th, 2017, 4:18 pm
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Vassel is a tugga, you can't review something you don't understand and thats FACT.


March 5th, 2017, 10:44 pm
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Minion
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Vassel's review was !SODA! but the game is far from perfect. Just above mediocre in my opinion. If you enjoyed SDE, it doesn't matter... This game is too different to bring your experience across.

Consider it closer to a tactical strategy game, only lacking in balance (factions/units/characters) and having somewhat meaningless outcomes in several parts that pretty much have to be house-ruled. The dice mechanics are a point of contention for many people but I never understood that as it took all of 60secs to fully understand. That being said, several potential outcomes as a result of various dice outcomes are mediocre or meaningless and act as a bit of a wet blanket. This was kind of the problem our gaming group had. A person may employ a great strategy to bring as many dice in the attackers favour with some clever positioning to boot, yet because of no earth or void on the dice, the outcome of all that thinking and preparation resulted in nothing. The problem was not the randomness, the problem was the result that was randomly chosen was underwhelming at best. Some people hate randomness trumping strategy but in our group, we play KD so we're used to that and comfortable with it. The problem was that too many times it felt like absolutely nothing meaningful occured. You could argue that some of the repositioning shenanigans changed the game somewhat but that doesn't take away from the mundane 'feel' of the outcomes. Technology A might be technically superior to Technology B but if it does't excite the consumer, its not going to be as well received. Which is why we have Bluray instead of HD-DVD XD
Incidentally, if you play ranged, change 'underwhelming' to 'negligible' for most dice outcomes.

The game has a great potential though. If you're willing to house rule stuff and your gaming group isn't hyper competitive like mine then they'll enjoy it. However for groups like mine, the game doesn't provide enough of a pay off in individual actions or as a game overall. Given how many different games we have in our collective libraries, NAS doesn't get played at all anymore.


Last edited by shoitaan on March 6th, 2017, 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.



March 6th, 2017, 1:37 am
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Dalia wrote:
I dont understand why people dont like the dice combat system, it's original, but not perfect i agree with that. Here i changed one little thing, attacker can choose only in his dice pool, not in defense dice pool. More fun, hazardous is fun.


THis is a little off topic, but, that is the actual rule in the game. Choosing from everything was a beta rule that was changed.


March 6th, 2017, 7:20 am
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Minion
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I ran several campaigns/leagues now, but recently had to abandon them because interest vanished, and its easier to get people to play other games with campaign mechanisms.

Its nothing like SDE. Its a bit clumsy, but like most of SPM works, you play it for the miniatures and theme, not the rules. The rules are slowish and not terribly well-written, but they work.

Its not well balanced (another classic SPM flaw), but it doesnt have to be since results are random enough to cover it up a little. Just make sure to read the house-rule ideas in the corresponding forum here before you run anything longer than a one-off, because over several games, these really very minor issues can become huge (runaway Ijin leaders, for example).

Full disclosure: I got the KS with 4 clans, played roundabout 40 games myself, but would sell it immediately if someone interested came along, because I dont think SPM is going to give it a future, and its not selling at all in my area anymore.


March 7th, 2017, 2:13 am
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Usagi wrote:
Dalia wrote:
I dont understand why people dont like the dice combat system, it's original, but not perfect i agree with that. Here i changed one little thing, attacker can choose only in his dice pool, not in defense dice pool. More fun, hazardous is fun.


THis is a little off topic, but, that is the actual rule in the game. Choosing from everything was a beta rule that was changed.


In the french book not :

Ce joueur choisi un dé parmi les dés lancés par les deux joueurs qui n'ont pas été écartés.

This player choose one dice among the dice rolled by the two players..........

French version is crappy OMG :?

You need to check french version, maybe many mistake.

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March 7th, 2017, 6:09 am
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