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 Ekhis is on a 40mm base and the Librarian is on a 50mm 
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Denizen
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Joined: June 28th, 2014, 3:01 pm
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To put this in perspective with a model, look at the SNC broadside, which has shield generator. At 50mm it has a footprint of 50.24 square inches (50mm + 3" in both directions). If I bump that to 60mm I get a footprint of 55.3896 square inches. That is an increase in coverage of just over 10%.

Now that might not seem like alot when we think of just 10mm diameter difference, but since it covers a circle, it can effect things from all directions, that increase is quite a big deal. The more you increase a base size the worse it becomes. The footprint of an 80mm base with the same ability is 66.4424 square inches (80+150mm, divide by 25 for inches. divide by 2 for radius. square than multiply by 3.14).

Yes you wouldn't have the entire footprint available (base size); but it still increases effective ranges of aura like abilities such as shield generator.


(edit because you shouldnt math while sleeping :))

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Last edited by Kias Metres on July 11th, 2014, 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.



July 11th, 2014, 2:15 am
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Ninja Corps
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GrauGeist wrote:
That is theoretical. In RK Area of Effect (AOE) is tied to a 30mm token, not a model's base...

Quote:
AREA OF EFFECT
An Area of Effect (AoE) is a persistent effect that remains in play throughout the game. When an action creates an AoE, the active unit places an AoE token anywhere on the battlefield so that it is within the unit’s LoS. The effect covers the entire area within 3” of the edge of the token, including the token itself.


Is there an actual model and ability that keys the AOE to the model's base side instead of a standard AOE token??


Healing aura, Any officer measurements, Kasaro-to's cadre ability...yes, there are quite a number of things that key off of a models base size. Base size does matter. If it didn't matter, the game wouldn't likely even have bases, just be molded to stand like many reaper minis. It's something that matters, and should be standardized, if you want anything resembling organized and tournament play.

Edit - A full list of abilities that I believe base size would have an impact on (now that i'm looking at a list):
Aegis
Blast X
Healing Aura (mentioned)
Officer (mentioned)
Overrun X
Shield Generator X
Tow

Additionally: squad cohesion.


July 11th, 2014, 2:26 am
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Cats Laughing wrote:
I made no mention of AOEs.

This is why games that strive for tight rules sets will specific base size, whereas beer & skittles games will not.


You talked about Area Effects, which I understood to be AOEs.

I prefer beer and pretzels gaming, but understand that this theoretical issue matters a lot to you guys. Fair enough.

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July 11th, 2014, 2:57 am
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I can't really support the optional base size for Ekhis. I like him better on a 50mm but it opens up a whole can of worms that will make the game miserable to play. What if you were at a tournament and a player had two Ekhis models on different base sizes? Does that player get to swap them between rounds? Can Delphyne get a 50mm Ekhis to hide behind on open tables and a 40mm base Ekhis when the terrain forms tight alleyways? In my test games I have already used him to pin units against terrain and it would be even more powerful if he closed off 10mm more of that gap.


July 11th, 2014, 3:31 am
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Hey Dais can you tell me how you did the symbol on the base like that?

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July 11th, 2014, 4:57 am
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ig4mer wrote:
Hey Dais can you tell me how you did the symbol on the base like that?

I printed it on cardstock and glued the paper to the base. The hardest part is getting the printer to size it right.


July 11th, 2014, 5:18 am
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Nice.. thank you.

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July 11th, 2014, 5:57 am
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Dais wrote:
I can't really support the optional base size for Ekhis. I like him better on a 50mm but it opens up a whole can of worms that will make the game miserable to play. What if you were at a tournament and a player had two Ekhis models on different base sizes? Does that player get to swap them between rounds? Can Delphyne get a 50mm Ekhis to hide behind on open tables and a 40mm base Ekhis when the terrain forms tight alleyways? In my test games I have already used him to pin units against terrain and it would be even more powerful if he closed off 10mm more of that gap.


This is exactly my concern. With it optional, at best people decide on the best interpretation for them (probably 50mm, he's really useful as a blocker) worst case people have two models on different sizes and switch between games based on terrain. Not at all healthy for the tournament meta.


July 11th, 2014, 8:16 am
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The tournament thing is not really a problem — not changing lists between rounds includes not changing base sizes either.

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July 11th, 2014, 2:06 pm
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Honestly, I'd say it should just be 50mm. The card says 50mm, the book does too (I think, my roommate has all my stuff, including the book). He's overall more useful on a 50mm Base, and he's easier to put on the base as well. The cards say the Librarian is on the 50mm base as well. While I hesitate to say they should just ship 50mm bases to everyone (because that might be super expensive), requiring them both on a 50mm Base makes the most sense.


July 11th, 2014, 2:22 pm
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Claymore65 wrote:
Honestly, I'd say it should just be 50mm. The card says 50mm, the book does too (I think, my roommate has all my stuff, including the book). He's overall more useful on a 50mm Base, and he's easier to put on the base as well. The cards say the Librarian is on the 50mm base as well. While I hesitate to say they should just ship 50mm bases to everyone (because that might be super expensive), requiring them both on a 50mm Base makes the most sense.

I completely agree. He just doesn't fit properly on a 40mm base.


July 11th, 2014, 5:04 pm
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July 11th, 2014, 10:24 pm
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Usagi wrote:
Edit - A full list of abilities that I believe base size would have an impact on (now that i'm looking at a list):
Aegis
Blast X
Healing Aura (mentioned)
Officer (mentioned)
Overrun X
Shield Generator X
Tow

Additionally: squad cohesion.



Hm... I'm not seeing any of these that would be altered in the case of Cyphers. Maybe Tow? They just follow different rules from everyone else, you know? Armor, healing, squad, blast etc. Which leads me to believe that changing Ekhis' base size won't be changing much in game balance terms.


But I agree that base size is important- it is part of a mini's profile and should be considered as part of game balance.

I get the impression that 50mm is right for him, and since it will be allowed in organized play, I will be putting him on a 50mm base. Also, since RK is a base to base game, I think I'd usually side with the option that will allow him to have base contact with another mini more easily.

I can see them allowing him on the 40mm base (mostly to allow people who already assembled their box sets to use him). And since it won't provide a big advantage for him to be on the 40mm base, I think it is ok and won't be changing gameplay significantly.

Of course, if we wanted to alter everyone's base size, then we'd run into a lot more trouble.

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July 18th, 2014, 2:24 pm
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How is the original based? ;)

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July 18th, 2014, 4:31 pm
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Denizen
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GrauGeist wrote:
How is the original based? ;)


On a 50mm. And since that is what I have (in legacy resin), that is what I'll be using, as per the rules, cards, playtesting, etc. Kinda reminds me of the SDE Skullbat Rattlebones mess :/

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July 19th, 2014, 4:14 pm
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Shoot.... I already put him on a 50mm. Oh well, hopefully I will have extra bases for my other Librarian.


August 1st, 2014, 2:23 pm
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Minion
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I'm sort of glad it wasn't me who got the Doctrine starter in my group, as I'd be frustrated to have based Ekhis on the 40mm base (which looks patently ridiculous) only to find out later that he could go on a 50mm.


August 5th, 2014, 3:28 pm
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Bottle Cap
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Well, !SODA!. Wish I 'd known about this before I ordered my Doctrine starter.

Okay, solution for the Soda Pop guys: Admit you messed up. Put up a web thing where people can request a free 50mm base for their Ekhis. Yes, it will cost money, but I think the goodwill it will earn with the community will be worth it. And going forward, pack a 50mm base with him.


November 12th, 2014, 12:13 pm
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Mine's on a 40mm base and he looks fine. He is no worse then my Gladiators were in my Skorne army :)


November 12th, 2014, 6:26 pm
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Denizen
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I've seen a few Ekhis on 40mm bases and I always find they look funny compared to mine on the proper 50mm...in my opinion...there was a reason he was originally on a 50mm and the only reason to put him on a 40mm would be if you do not have a 50mm base around. There is not a single piece of proper/official SPM/ND text that shows him on a 40mm...it was just a base mispack, nothing more.

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November 12th, 2014, 6:52 pm
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