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 Kasaro To cadre ability 
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Ninja Corps
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So Major pointed out how similar and weaker Kasaro To cadre ability is to Marikan To cadre ability. So this might be to overpowered but here is a tweek:

Murder Spree: All Melee attacks from units in Kasaro To cadre gain the following:

[Press] 3R Gain Rapidfire

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March 16th, 2017, 2:14 pm
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Mini-Boss
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2020"]So Major pointed out how similar and weaker Kasaro To cadre ability is to Marikan To cadre ability. So this might be to overpowered but here is a tweek:

Murder Spree: All Melee attacks from units in Kasaro To cadre gain the following:

[Press] 3R Gain Rapidfire[/quote] I'd want to see all possible attacks that would be on units Kasaro-To could take, but at first glance that feels really strong, especially for melee. I mean, that's a fun ability, but charging up esper or loading a hand with refocus and Rapidfiring an 8+ damage attack, even once, seems quite powerful, even if it would be very satisfying for the attacking player. But without full information it's hard to say whether the cost balanced potential. (Just for example, imagine a single rapid fire on the Sarva Scout's Hydra Bow.)

I think a better place to start would be to word Murder Spree so that Kasaro-To gains the bonus per token, not just if he has one.
Then you could power him up over a few activations and really get in a strong hit. It would also create an interesting dynamic where Kasaro-To could quickly draw a lot of threat, giving your other units more space to operate without interference.


March 16th, 2017, 3:47 pm
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Major Glitch wrote:

I'd want to see all possible attacks that would be on units Kasaro-To could take, but at first glance that feels really strong, especially for melee. I mean, that's a fun ability, but charging up esper or loading a hand with refocus and Rapidfiring an 8+ damage attack, even once, seems quite powerful, even if it would be very satisfying for the attacking player. But without full information it's hard to say whether the cost balanced potential. (Just for example, imagine a single rapid fire on the Sarva Scout's Hydra Bow.)


Has no effect on Scout's Hydra Bow its ranged, as a matter of fact the scouts wouldn't help at all, but here is a nerf.

Murder Spree: All Melee attacks from friendly minions in Kasaro To cadre gain the following:

[Press] 3R Gain Rapidfire

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March 16th, 2017, 4:02 pm
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ape2020 wrote:

Murder Spree: All Melee attacks from friendly minions in Kasaro To cadre gain the following:

[Press] 3R Gain Rapidfire


Personally I quite like it.

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March 16th, 2017, 4:22 pm
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I really disliked Kasaro To old ability since it really had nothing to do for his cadre and should have just been a passive skill of his. This way all his minions that idolize him go on a murder spree with him.

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March 16th, 2017, 5:05 pm
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I missed the word "melee". ><

If limited to minions, it certainly seems reasonable, though in practice a refocus to set up a minion attack could result in some pretty high damage output. I'd want to give it a try, because I think the trade-offs would be fair.


March 16th, 2017, 5:50 pm
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Actually thinking about it, it kinda matches the fluff in that many of the other Noh heroes don't think much of him.

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March 16th, 2017, 6:44 pm
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Major Glitch wrote:
I missed the word "melee". ><

If limited to minions, it certainly seems reasonable, though in practice a refocus to set up a minion attack could result in some pretty high damage output. I'd want to give it a try, because I think the trade-offs would be fair.


With refocus now only giving three cards, is it really that big a deal?

There are only so many red cards to go around in the cadre, and since minions have such a freakishly hard time getting held esper, I don't think it is problematic to use refocusing to set up your minion.

With the ability as presented it will almost always require two cards to pull off, that seems fine to me. I don't think a player will have much opportunity to press it more than once very often, and twice if they get really lucky.

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March 16th, 2017, 7:21 pm
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If you have a hand that can already pay to activate the attack, if you refocus all you'd need is one major Entropy draw to activate the Rapidfire. Furthermore, minions can use held esper from any or all of your heroes per action, so if you took a turn setting up a Cypher Mascot activation, you could create the conditions to have enough held esper to allow for the press without needing extra cards. I do think that level of action investment should be rewarded (after all, you're basically pulling a DBZ power-up episode...) As is it's limited and potentially powerful. As I said, I want to try it, just until I have a chance to I'm looking for ways to abuse it.


March 16th, 2017, 8:06 pm
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Minions have no trouble getting held Esper.

"When paying for an action or press that a minion is taking you may spend held esper from any or all of the hero units in your cadre."

The Hero activating the Minions refocuses, going a held Esper and 3 cards. The Minions use both to effect...

But yes this feels a lot more like a Cadre ability for the boss of all the Berserkers.

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March 21st, 2017, 12:57 am
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Obsidian-Crane wrote:
Minions have no trouble getting held Esper.

"When paying for an action or press that a minion is taking you may spend held esper from any or all of the hero units in your cadre."

The Hero activating the Minions refocuses, going a held Esper and 3 cards. The Minions use both to effect...

But yes this feels a lot more like a Cadre ability for the boss of all the Berserkers.


True, I had forgotten that bit about minions being able to use it from Hero units.

It doesn't seem too overpowered even with them being able to use it. Especially being in Noh, Red is always a premium, and if one is hording their red cards so the berzerkers can go to town, that seems reasonable to me.

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March 21st, 2017, 1:52 am
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I do think it's worth investigating, possibly at 2R to begin with.

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March 21st, 2017, 4:34 am
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One thing im finding annoying about these new cadre abilities is how complicated they are becoming. Some are mini objectives in themselves & many times not very good payoff for all conditions needed. Codebreaker v9.0 also suffers this. That's why my suggestions follow the K.I.S.S. rule if possible.

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March 21st, 2017, 10:57 am
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I like that they're trying more interesting things than "everyone gains stealth". I do agree that some of the new cadre abilities should be worded better for ease of understanding (Such as QK Mayla). And as much as the extra record-keeping for abilities like Marikan-To or QK Cross are annoying, I like the overall effect that they have and the fact that the abilities are moving in a direction that makes them much more impactful over the course of the game. I would like to see a balance between the "gotta do x to benefit from the ability" and the "gives a static boost" cadre abilities. As it was in 1e, very few Knights had cadre abilities that factored in as a choice for taking them. Now, it seems like the cadre ability could be as important as a Knight's combat impact, making who to choose as a leader that much more meaningful.

(And I think that v9's cadre could be salvaged with a minor tweak or two, and/or if he wasn't forced to be so miserly with whatever random esper he starts with.)


March 21st, 2017, 5:13 pm
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The extra record keeping so far is fairly simple. Stick a token with a unit, remove after its next action.

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March 21st, 2017, 11:45 pm
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I use colored beads already for damage and esper. I agree it's not a hassle to track the new cadre abilities, but it is an extra trigger to remember, which means it's one extra thing to forget. I would like to see (at least for tournaments) some language that encourages players to remind each other of missed triggers. (When I was still playing competitive MtG there was a rule that forced players to honor missed triggers, rewinding turns if necessary.)


March 21st, 2017, 11:58 pm
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It's important not to confuse problems created by the change with problems with the change itself.

For example we forget triggered actions because we are unfamiliar with them and not looking for them, but ultimately this is a small problem for new players and just part of learning the game. New players will generally not have a new Cadre ability every other game.

Kasaro To's ability being weak in and of itself, and not really building a Cadre theme is a problem with the new Cadre theme that needs to be addressed.

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March 22nd, 2017, 12:28 am
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Major Glitch wrote:
I like that they're trying more interesting things than "everyone gains stealth". I do agree that some of the new cadre abilities should be worded better for ease of understanding (Such as QK Mayla). And as much as the extra record-keeping for abilities like Marikan-To or QK Cross are annoying, I like the overall effect that they have and the fact that the abilities are moving in a direction that makes them much more impactful over the course of the game. I would like to see a balance between the "gotta do x to benefit from the ability" and the "gives a static boost" cadre abilities. As it was in 1e, very few Knights had cadre abilities that factored in as a choice for taking them. Now, it seems like the cadre ability could be as important as a Knight's combat impact, making who to choose as a leader that much more meaningful.

(And I think that v9's cadre could be salvaged with a minor tweak or two, and/or if he wasn't forced to be so miserly with whatever random esper he starts with.)


Actually right now I see less vareity and interesting cadre abilities in these first knights. Heck 4 of them practically have the same thing. Kill something, get a token, spend token , get a damage bonus. It their are others that follow similar routes just different bonuses.

I still hold out hope for better creative since this is just the start.

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March 22nd, 2017, 2:53 am
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It's not quite "Kill something, get token", but I understand your point. Just over 1/4 of what we've been shown have some token-related ability. Of those, two are related to attacking, and two are related to your units/models dying, and one is based on movement. Overall, they either require positioning or otherwise active gameplay to use. Superficially, they use the same mechanical idea, and have a similar final effect, but the actual gameplay that results feels different (Jeanne Romee RK practically encourages a meat-shield approach to engagement.)

The other interesting result is that as these abilities work, some units have clear synergies - Sebastian has more leadership experience than Jeanne, and thus he gets more out of the sword sworn. Likewise, they could make a unit that has some bonus if another unit in LoS has an inspiration token.

Overall, it's a new design space for them, and there are definitely interesting possibilities, even if the abilities currently feel same-ish. I'm hoping Kasaro-To's get's reconsidered, and I think that Jeanne's could be lackluster if the timing of your model deaths is unfortunate, but overall, the potential they have for impacting your gameplay choices is there.


March 22nd, 2017, 3:25 am
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Reading the above I can see the draw to giving 'Rapidfire' to units.

What about the cadre ability giving 'Piercing 2' as I've found the NE suffer against units with armour up the wazzo. While rapidfire is good the target will get armour against each action whereas piercing will get through to the soft bits.


April 8th, 2017, 4:34 pm
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